Autopsy The Midfield

[Chris_6678]

Go back to 2013 where we struggled after a good 2011-2012.

Our midfield was in worse condition than it is now so it can be turned around. Our main mids that year were Priddis, Hutchings,Scooter, Masten, Rosa, Shuey, Gaff and a few games from Embley and Kerr who were past it. Bar Shuey and Gaff we had barely any young players coming through.

We need to politely say to Priddis sorry mate we want to go in a different direction for 2018 but we can offer you a 1 year deal but cannot promise games all the time. Look we did it too Cox and Glass and it worked out all fine. I feel we can still play Mitchell a he can be played in different roles like on the HB line.

In 2014/15 we build the midfield around Priddis around his strengths and it worked well and we actually did look like a quick side but teams worked us out and we look super slow.

We have some solid enough players to build it around and we need to start now and not wait till next year. Shuey (27) Nic Nat (27) Gaff (25) Yeo (23) Sheed (22) are the senior players we build it around and then continue the development of Partington, Duggan & Mutimer and Even Jetta who i think can offer some more to the team for the next few years. Redden, Hutchings, Masten & Priddis are all not going to get us going forward.

 

[Woobla Stainz]

Go back to 2013 where we struggled after a good 2011-2012.

Our midfield was in worse condition than it is now so it can be turned around. Our main mids that year were Priddis, Hutchings,Scooter, Masten, Rosa, Shuey, Gaff and a few games from Embley and Kerr who were past it. Bar Shuey and Gaff we had barely any young players coming through.

We need to politely say to Priddis sorry mate we want to go in a different direction for 2018 but we can offer you a 1 year deal but cannot promise games all the time. Look we did it too Cox and Glass and it worked out all fine. I feel we can still play Mitchell a he can be played in different roles like on the HB line.

In 2014/15 we build the midfield around Priddis around his strengths and it worked well and we actually did look like a quick side but teams worked us out and we look super slow.

We have some solid enough players to build it around and we need to start now and not wait till next year. Shuey (27) Nic Nat (27) Gaff (25) Yeo (23) Sheed (22) are the senior players we build it around and then continue the development of Partington, Duggan & Mutimer and Even Jetta who i think can offer some more to the team for the next few years. Redden, Hutchings, Masten & Priddis are all not going to get us going forward.

I would actually like to see Redden have 5-10 games in Priddis' role as the number 1 inside mid before writing him off. He is a natural inside mid and played all his games for Brisbane in that role we get him over here and play him on a HFF. When he goes back to the Wafl he is played inside and does well.

 

[The Dodger]

yepp! this clip.. is so damning.. (this first bit). And this 'play' arguablely lost us the game - because both players have no right side .. (and are so slow)
This is where the training the dedication to your craft, the extra training and the will to improve counts in the big game moments. Like Benny used to do after training. Everyone has gone and he is still there practicing only with his left hand side.
Then we hear all this rubbish about how the young guys 'look up to their training ethic" how they prepare.. Wot a crock. Or maybe it isn't because it's never mentioned about their high skills and abilities as what the young guys admire (when they are interviewed)

Yikes! I had blocked that play from my mind obviously after seeing it. Looking at it again has bought on PTSD.

So many mistakes between those 2 but yes No right side either of them and no ability to create distance between them and a chaser. Pace isn't the only thing in this instance as Mitchell can wrong foot someone with half a step and buy himself all the time in the world. Gaff has no agility...none he is as smooth as a ruckman with the ball in hand running.
Also after giving a panicked shit handball back to Priddis he runs on at least to get it back and Priddis just ignores him for the scrubber.

Along with Hurns decision to chip into the pocket with under a minute left they are all leaders of the club showing 0 composure with the ball under pressure.

And with Darling in that play so many of our players just wait to be tackled. They almost bottle themselves up even before the tacklers got a hold of them.

 

[Matera92]

yepp! this clip.. is so damning.. (this first bit). And this 'play' arguablely lost us the game - because both players have no right side .. (and are so slow)
This is where the training the dedication to your craft, the extra training and the will to improve counts in the big game moments. Like Benny used to do after training. Everyone has gone and he is still there practicing only with his left hand side.
Then we hear all this rubbish about how the young guys 'look up to their training ethic" how they prepare.. Wot a crock. Or maybe it isn't because it's never mentioned about their high skills and abilities as what the young guys admire (when they are interviewed)

That's a coach killer that one, if that isn't the wakeup call that the games passed him by I don't know what is.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

In a game where the midfield is mostly all about ballistic running and intensity we constantly get shown up. Nothing's gonna change until Priddis goes, unfortunately. Too slow, has no opposite side, can only play one position, offers nothing defensively, game's gone well past him

 

[avishka5]

In a game where the midfield is mostly all about ballistic running and intensity we constantly get shown up. Nothing's gonna change until Priddis goes, unfortunately. Too slow, has no opposite side, can only play one position, offers nothing defensively, game's gone well past him

Id actually drop priddis and put wellingham or nelson in the midfield. Both are high intensity players that attack the ball as hard as they apply pressure on the man.

Cole is one i'd like to be turned into an on baller. He is smooth but goes in hard at a contest.

 

[WereFlyingHigh4]

I posted something similar in another thread but can people please stop with the obsession of pace by foot through the midfield? Why are people so adamant that is our issue there? The last three different teams to win a grand final (Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Sydney) didn't have much pace at all through the midfield. Speed by foot is such an overrated quality in footy because you have the ability to move the ball so much faster by foot/hand and a lot of the time, trying to breakaway purely by foot speed will get you into trouble. Sure, having a few line breakers in the team (mainly on the flanks) is something you may need for some x-factor, but through the core of your midfield it's not really necessary. The problem for us at the moment, is a lack of class in personnel and poor stoppage and midfield strategy now that we don't have Nic Nat to get us out of trouble.

Our midfield seriously lacks class at the moment. We have too many limited players who lack the talent to effectively move the ball from a stoppage. As it stands, we have 3 classy midfielders who can effectively work around the stoppages in Shuey, Mitchell and Sheed. Priddis, as opposed to other years, is no longer in that group in my opinion. Going by our last 22....Gaff, Hutchings, Jetta and Duggan are too flawed to effectively work in a core midfield group if we're going to push for a flag. Yeo is quality down back but he's not a reliable influence through the midfield just yet. IMO we're probably looking at needing an extra 2-3 regular classy/reliable onballers that can work around the stoppages. The bulldogs were the textbook model of a high quality midfield core which were able to work together at stoppages to clear the ball quickly by hand and create a meaningful clearance.

We're also IMO lacking quality strategy around the stoppages. In the past, we had Nic Nat who could use his tapwork to get us meaningful clearances from stoppages/centre bounces out of nothing basically. We no longer have that and now we have to rely on our setup at stoppages, along with a few of our good midfielders, to win quality clearances and I think this is where were getting slaughtered regularly. This is something that I hope the coaches can adjust and really look at over the bye and as the year goes on. In our best game of last year (Adelaide game at the end of the year), we looked amazing through the midfield because we finally clicked with our movement by hand from the stoppages. There were countless times where we looked really quick through the midfield because of our ball use away from stoppages. That hasn't happened in one game this year which has me concerned. Far too often our clearances are just bombs away from the stoppage in hope more than anything which is kinda fine if you're really strong at the contest which we haven't been this year.

 

[Eagleboy68]

yepp! this clip.. is so damning.. (this first bit). And this 'play' arguablely lost us the game - because both players have no right side .. (and are so slow)
This is where the training the dedication to your craft, the extra training and the will to improve counts in the big game moments. Like Benny used to do after training. Everyone has gone and he is still there practicing only with his left hand side.
Then we hear all this rubbish about how the young guys 'look up to their training ethic" how they prepare.. Wot a crock. Or maybe it isn't because it's never mentioned about their high skills and abilities as what the young guys admire (when they are interviewed)

Priddis apologetics

1. Good kicking isn't priddis role
2. Gaff was too slow so he got caught and had to hand ball back to priddis
3. The forwards should have read the kick off his boot and slid to the mark
4. Unkind bounce not priddis fault. Footballs should be round when he kicks
5. All the good things he did far outweighs the one bad thing
6. It's shuey and jettas fault for not being there they need to lift
7. The coaches votes said he had a good game.
8. He had 25+ disposals which stopped them having the ball
9. He impacts the game in other ways you don't see. You just highlight the bad mistakes, please show the whole game and not be biased
10. He's a club champion stop all the negativity as he is above reproach.
11. Insert bullshit here
12. Insert bullshit here
13. ....

 

[FKASC]

Gaff for me is the bigger culprit in that clip. He had the ball in the clear but no ability to accelerate at all and turned a perfectly fine handball into a mess. The follow up kick from Priddis wasn't good of course but Gaff's handball to him was terrible and it never should have come to that. The point about both only having one side is true though.

That should have been a wingman's bread and butter.

Gaff has turned into a piece of poo.

The depressing thing is when Josh Kelly was drafted everyone said he was a Gaff clone. I guess they thought Gaff would end up with more than one string on his bow

 

[CM9000]

Priddis apologetics

1. Good kicking isn't priddis role
2. Gaff was too slow so he got caught and had to hand ball back to priddis
3. The forwards should have read the kick off his boot and slid to the mark
4. Unkind bounce not priddis fault. Footballs should be round when he kicks
5. All the good things he did far outweighs the one bad thing
6. It's shuey and jettas fault for not being there they need to lift
7. The coaches votes said he had a good game.
8. He had 25+ disposals which stopped them having the ball
9. He impacts the game in other ways you don't see. You just highlight the bad mistakes, please show the whole game and not be biased
10. He's a club champion stop all the negativity as he is above reproach.
11. Insert bullshit here
12. Insert bullshit here
13. ....

Can you please not turn this into another Priddis hate thread?

 

[Eagleboy68]

Could you please not turn this into another Priddis hate thread?

You didn't see how I replied to a post by domo?

Could you please explain to me how a thread about the midfield shouldn't include priddis?

 

[CM9000]

You didn't see how I replied to a post by domo?

Could you please explain to me how a thread about the midfield shouldn't include priddis?

There's a difference between discussing the midfield and just hating on Priddis for the sake of it.

Your post belongs with the latter.

 

[Eagleboy68]

There's a difference between discussing the midfield and just hating on Priddis for the sake of it.

Your post belongs with the latter.

No. My post highlights the ridiculous excuses people like yourself have used to justify priddis being in our midfield, with a dash of humour/sarcasm.

You call it hate, I call it reality. Our midfield has suffered under the poor influence and liabilities of priddis for too long.

Don't like it? Don't read it.

Edit: care to express your thought on the fact that a butchered kick from priddis cost us the game? Or just stick your head in the sand?

Editx2: you come under excuse number 10.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

That should have been a wingman's bread and butter.

Gaff has turned into a piece of poo.

The depressing thing is when Josh Kelly was drafted everyone said he was a Gaff clone. I guess they thought Gaff would end up with more than one string on his bow

A lot going wrong there.

First problem was Priddis didn't draw the man, he telegraphed the handpass early and the opposition player went to cover Gaff quickly.

Priddis went to the negative side of Gaff with the handpass. If Gaff was quicker it wouldn't be as big of an issue.

Gaffs handpass back was pretty average as well, he probably should have kicked it. I know teams want to really press up on teams to prevent them getting chopped up on the rebound but the quick kick is better than a slow one later. The overuse of the ball 75 to 55m from goals has hurt our offensive side this year.

Apart from that Gaff moved away from Priddis, had he stayed a little closer he'd have probably got the ball back and been in a lot of space. Either way Priddis could have used the hands back to Gaff.

Cluster of mistakes started and ended with Priddis or 75% of the blame goes to Priddis.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CM9000]

No. My post highlights the ridiculous excuses people like yourself have used to justify priddis being in our midfield, with a dash of humour/sarcasm.

You call it hate, I call it reality. Our midfield has suffered under the poor influence and liabilities of priddis for too long.

Don't like it? Don't read it.

Edit: care to express your thought on the fact that a butchered kick from priddis cost us the game? Or just stick your head in the sand?

Editx2: you come under excuse number 10.

Actually, it was mistake for responding.

There's really no point in turning this into a shitfight, lets just leave it at that.

 

[Patron]

yepp! this clip.. is so damning.. (this first bit). And this 'play' arguablely lost us the game - because both players have no right side .. (and are so slow)
This is where the training the dedication to your craft, the extra training and the will to improve counts in the big game moments. Like Benny used to do after training. Everyone has gone and he is still there practicing only with his left hand side.
Then we hear all this rubbish about how the young guys 'look up to their training ethic" how they prepare.. Wot a crock. Or maybe it isn't because it's never mentioned about their high skills and abilities as what the young guys admire (when they are interviewed)

Damning and cost us the game. Look at shuey during that whole play and you can see him trying to cover up the gaps of the other 2.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Priddis, MAsten, Redden should all be moved on. They are roasted potatoes. Hutchings I'd be happy to keep as pure depth but geeeeeee if an option for a faster slicker player to have immediate impact came along (Tim Kelly) you could get rid of him too.

 

[The Dodger]

I posted something similar in another thread but can people please stop with the obsession of pace by foot through the midfield? Why are people so adamant that is our issue there? The last three different teams to win a grand final (Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Sydney) didn't have much pace at all through the midfield. Speed by foot is such an overrated quality in footy because you have the ability to move the ball so much faster by foot/hand and a lot of the time, trying to breakaway purely by foot speed will get you into trouble. Sure, having a few line breakers in the team (mainly on the flanks) is something you may need for some x-factor, but through the core of your midfield it's not really necessary. The problem for us at the moment, is a lack of class in personnel and poor stoppage and midfield strategy now that we don't have Nic Nat to get us out of trouble.

Our midfield seriously lacks class at the moment. We have too many limited players who lack the talent to effectively move the ball from a stoppage. As it stands, we have 3 classy midfielders who can effectively work around the stoppages in Shuey, Mitchell and Sheed. Priddis, as opposed to other years, is no longer in that group in my opinion. Going by our last 22....Gaff, Hutchings, Jetta and Duggan are too flawed to effectively work in a core midfield group if we're going to push for a flag. Yeo is quality down back but he's not a reliable influence through the midfield just yet. IMO we're probably looking at needing an extra 2-3 regular classy/reliable onballers that can work around the stoppages. The bulldogs were the textbook model of a high quality midfield core which were able to work together at stoppages to clear the ball quickly by hand and create a meaningful clearance.

We're also IMO lacking quality strategy around the stoppages. In the past, we had Nic Nat who could use his tapwork to get us meaningful clearances from stoppages/centre bounces out of nothing basically. We no longer have that and now we have to rely on our setup at stoppages, along with a few of our good midfielders, to win quality clearances and I think this is where were getting slaughtered regularly. This is something that I hope the coaches can adjust and really look at over the bye and as the year goes on. In our best game of last year (Adelaide game at the end of the year), we looked amazing through the midfield because we finally clicked with our movement by hand from the stoppages. There were countless times where we looked really quick through the midfield because of our ball use away from stoppages. That hasn't happened in one game this year which has me concerned. Far too often our clearances are just bombs away from the stoppage in hope more than anything which is kinda fine if you're really strong at the contest which we haven't been this year.

I think people get confused about what a bit of foot speed is. Everytime our speed gets brought up without fail someone will reply; its not foot speed you can move the ball quicker than you can run. This is true. But it also gets to tipping point when you don't have 1 or 2 slow mids, you have 4 or 5.
And its not just the offensive side of the game its more the defensive if you lose the clearance which we seem to be doing regularly now that NN is out. Its spread from the stoppage. Watching us v Bulldogs it was stark how when they got the ball compared to when we got it. The spread was completely different from a matter of split seconds from one of them winning the ball all of their other mids start moving forward and providing options at a rate. So yes they move the ball by hand but the palters find space very quickly on the spread and they do that by running. They are not magically in space after contesting a stoppage because they fan themselves out ready for a definite clearance going their way. They are moving and they move quickly to support the ball winner. Ours cant out run the ruckman of the opposition on the spread. Bulldogs actually have quite a bit of pace through the midfield or atleast aren't treacle slow.

The speed issue is within regards to nearly all aspects of our mids. Only Shuey & Mitchell are quick thinkers and have the skills to get the play moving in our direction. All others are slow thinkers who telegraph where they are going and who they are going to pass it to.

So when oppositions are running the ball out of stoppages as they dont want to kick blindly to Barrass & McGovern I think its fair to expect your mids to keep up with them trying to shutdown avenues forward. And IMO thats were a lot of the issue lies as our defence and ability to generate ball ourselves comes from Barrass & McGovern intercept marking and without pressure on mids streaming forward juggling it to each other it becomes difficult to zone off.

All I am saying is it does matter at some stage. Its not the be all and end all and you certainly can be net slower than the opposition and still be a better team and i think if NN comes back in any kind of form we will see just how much his tap work hides the speed of our mids by bringing the game to them.

 

[domo]

I think people get confused about what a bit of foot speed is. Everytime our speed gets brought up without fail someone will reply; its not foot speed you can move the ball quicker than you can run. This is true. But it also gets to tipping point when you don't have 1 or 2 slow mids, you have 4 or 5.
And its not just the offensive side of the game its more the defensive if you lose the clearance which we seem to be doing regularly now that NN is out. Its spread from the stoppage. Watching us v Bulldogs it was stark how when they got the ball compared to when we got it. The spread was completely different from a matter of split seconds from one of them winning the ball all of their other mids start moving forward and providing options at a rate. So yes they move the ball by hand but the palters find space very quickly on the spread and they do that by running. They are not magically in space after contesting a stoppage because they fan themselves out ready for a definite clearance going their way. They are moving and they move quickly to support the ball winner. Ours cant out run the ruckman of the opposition on the spread. Bulldogs actually have quite a bit of pace through the midfield or atleast aren't treacle slow.

The speed issue is within regards to nearly all aspects of our mids. Only Shuey & Mitchell are quick thinkers and have the skills to get the play moving in our direction. All others are slow thinkers who telegraph where they are going and who they are going to pass it to.

So when oppositions are running the ball out of stoppages as they dont want to kick blindly to Barrass & McGovern I think its fair to expect your mids to keep up with them trying to shutdown avenues forward. And IMO thats were a lot of the issue lies as our defence and ability to generate ball ourselves comes from Barrass & McGovern intercept marking and without pressure on mids streaming forward juggling it to each other it becomes difficult to zone off.

All I am saying is it does matter at some stage. Its not the be all and end all and you certainly can be net slower than the opposition and still be a better team and i think if NN comes back in any kind of form we will see just how much his tap work hides the speed of our mids by bringing the game to them.

Couldn't agree more! And the other killer to add to the above, is their failure to cover gaps in the web or cover territory in your zone. The irony being we persist with the web/zone to try cover for same lack of pace with the plods. AND to further send me bananas, we'll have to endure shit like 'we need to increase our work rate' ? ? What work rate exactly? Work Rate will most always be associated with stat whoring. Then next, when they don't get these wonderful stats we'll hear the moronic 'goes missing' chucked at Lecras Hill Darling, Cripps etc. Whereas these are the blokes (along with Kennedy especially) who are actually covering for the plods and are busting their arses to get to space or get back and help (ie. the actual WORK RATE). Mcinnes FFS the other day burned back past em thru the centre to try cover.

 

[QS]

Whatever we did early in the 4th on Saturday - more of that please. Midfield looked really good then dropped off......

 

[WereFlyingHigh4]

I think people get confused about what a bit of foot speed is. Everytime our speed gets brought up without fail someone will reply; its not foot speed you can move the ball quicker than you can run. This is true. But it also gets to tipping point when you don't have 1 or 2 slow mids, you have 4 or 5.
And its not just the offensive side of the game its more the defensive if you lose the clearance which we seem to be doing regularly now that NN is out. Its spread from the stoppage. Watching us v Bulldogs it was stark how when they got the ball compared to when we got it. The spread was completely different from a matter of split seconds from one of them winning the ball all of their other mids start moving forward and providing options at a rate. So yes they move the ball by hand but the palters find space very quickly on the spread and they do that by running. They are not magically in space after contesting a stoppage because they fan themselves out ready for a definite clearance going their way. They are moving and they move quickly to support the ball winner. Ours cant out run the ruckman of the opposition on the spread. Bulldogs actually have quite a bit of pace through the midfield or atleast aren't treacle slow.

The speed issue is within regards to nearly all aspects of our mids. Only Shuey & Mitchell are quick thinkers and have the skills to get the play moving in our direction. All others are slow thinkers who telegraph where they are going and who they are going to pass it to.

So when oppositions are running the ball out of stoppages as they dont want to kick blindly to Barrass & McGovern I think its fair to expect your mids to keep up with them trying to shutdown avenues forward. And IMO thats were a lot of the issue lies as our defence and ability to generate ball ourselves comes from Barrass & McGovern intercept marking and without pressure on mids streaming forward juggling it to each other it becomes difficult to zone off.

All I am saying is it does matter at some stage. Its not the be all and end all and you certainly can be net slower than the opposition and still be a better team and i think if NN comes back in any kind of form we will see just how much his tap work hides the speed of our mids by bringing the game to them.

I definitely do agree you have to be a quick thinker to make up for your lack in foot speed. The game has no place for someone who doesn't have the ability to quickly and smoothly move the ball because the game is played at such a high pace. I would probably add Sheed into our group of quick thinkers because the last few weeks he has been very good at the stoppage in getting the ball moving our way.

However, I don't think the Bulldogs have much more pace by foot through their midfield than we do. The difference is that they rather make up for it with their quick ball movement by hand which is kind of the point I was making before. They revolutionised the way the ball was moved from stoppages last year with their lightning quick handball, moving it in waves forward. At the moment, we don't have the class or strategy at the stoppage to move the ball quickly. All teams, no matter who you have, will look slow when the other team is moving the ball by hand/foot from a stoppage cause as I said, you can move the ball much quicker than you can run. Moving the ball quickly works for the Bulldogs because their midfielders are all quick thinkers and quality users of the ball in close. It doesn't quite work out for us when you have Hutchings always fumbling it, Masten handballing to a guy under more pressure than he is, Gaff playing out of his depth trying to win contested ball, Priddis now being slow in almost all aspects of the game etc.

 

[new breed]

Thing is we need to overhaul the midfield and we have got a few younger although inexperienced options but with Kennedy to resume and maybe Naitanui at about round 18, then there could be a moment of thought that with such an even season , that if we do make finals ( BIG IF now with our draw ) Naitanui and Kennedy could make the team dangerous in the finals .

So changing the midfield is needed but I can only see Partington and maybe Venables coming into the midfield equation unless of course we completely fall into a heap .

 

[kranky al]

Thing is we need to overhaul the midfield and we have got a few younger although inexperienced options but with Kennedy to resume and maybe Naitanui at about round 18, then there could be a moment of thought that with such an even season , that if we do make finals ( BIG IF now with our draw ) Naitanui and Kennedy could make the team dangerous in the finals .

So changing the midfield is needed but I can only see Partington and maybe Venables coming into the midfield equation unless of course we completely fall into a heap .

Kennedy yes. Naita is coming back from a reco and wont be any real use till 2018.

 

[former lurker]

Yepp I agree! BUT also, if Priddis had burst away pace and run and carry. He could have at least taken that ball all the way to the 50 drawing defenders - either then Gaff is free or one of our poor forwards (who always cop the blame for everything) could have a chance to get out on the lead without 2 blokes on them.
Not that he could hit them with a pass anyway too mind you.
OR even have a crack at goal himself...

LOLz BAHhaAHaa

But that isn't why he is in the team, that is and outside mids job , I don't know , someone like hmmm, maybe a Gaff ? But it would be nice if Priddis could do both obviously, but I think the real reason our midfield is shit is solely because Gaff is a slow plodder and has no hurt factor as an outside Mid. Wouldn't we love an Embley on the wing now ? That's why I want wellers moved to a wing permanently.

 

[frenchconnection]

E

Kennedy yes. Naita is coming back from a reco and wont be any real use till 2018.

Exactly - anybody thinking Nic will come back in the same form as he was just prior to doing his knee need to think again. Their worst enemy is their mind (fear of redoing their knee) - particularly being a big man.