The never ending Priddis debate - part II

[Pottering]

Actually what I was referring to are the type of people who just read what the media says and take it as gospel, instead of analysing things for themselves and coming to their own conclusions.

Thanks for leaving me out of that general slur, but it still comes across as "I know best, the rest know nothing".

 

[Johnno22]

That's my problem with it though, I think that Priddis' lack of skills, speed and disposal ability completely wipe out the good things he does on the field. I think he is at best a net neutral on the field. I don't think the premier award for a national competition should go to someone who doesn't at least have a net positive influence for the team he plays for.

I take your point but I believe that the Brownlow is a unique award. Winners have to meet rigid criteria and you must remember that it's the umpires who award the votes. The umps are the only party that have no interest in who wins the game but who best meets the criteria.

Voters in other awards all have a stake in who wins or who plays well.

The Brownlow is not for the fastest or the best kick, its for the best and fairest, the player the AFL holds up as a role model for the game.

If you walk through the halls of the famous football school, St Pats Ballarat you see their three Brownlow medalists hold pride of place on the walls ,not the players who won a MVP or the Age Footballer of the year or even the leaders of industry.

 

[Johnno22]

Oh come on old chap....

Ploddus can't zone up if his life depended on it. I'd have a better chance keeping up wheeling my Grandma around.

Do you really know what zone up means?

 

[Smotie]

A Bradbury only exists in your mind.

I don't accept there is such a thing as a Bradbury. so I would hardly agree with you on that.

I really struggle to see how you connect some of your responses with the point at issue.

So Steven Bradbury wining because everyone else fell over is only in my mind? It never happened?
You never saw this?

 

[kranky al]

How does this answer modern day footballs use of structures, you neglected to mention that.

We don't know the game plan so maybe and just maybe the job of a primary midfielder is to get to the next contest and conserve their run to achieve that or to peel off and create an offensive option on the rebound. But as I said we are not privy to this information and I am certainly in no position to make a call on this.

Classic example of what you see is not always the case and second guessing holds no weight.

Structures are one thing - a fast break is another.

You use structures in a measured attack and in meeting that measured attack as a defender you have structures set up to defeat the attack.

Im talking about when your team is in an attacking structure and you are stripped of the ball - all of a sudden your structure is rendered useless and you have to react.

We get scored against easily in this scenario as we have a particularly weak link in this area. Not just not quick like sheed and other teams not particularly lightning mids - im talking a guy who can be run down by lumbering giants - there is quite literally not a single player in the afl that cant outrun/ run down priddis.

Thats why he wasnt drafted. He isnt just slightly slow - you cant just wish it away by saying well not all players are fast - some have different skills etc - and even then other players who werent fast had silky skills to cover it.

 

[Johnno22]

So Steven Bradbury wining because everyone else fell over is only in my mind? It never happened?
You never saw this?

I repeat, there is no such thing as a Bradbury. In this context used by you as a definitive object and then swapping back to being a person.

There is only winners and losers and I can't see why you can't grasp that.

I say again ,I struggle to see how you responses are at all relevant to the points being made. It's like you pick up a key word and off you so.

By the way, I have huge admiration for Steven Bradbury and was there cheering like most Australians when he won gold against the odds.
This was the culmination of six years of pain and hard work. It wasn't like he was plucked out of the local pub and put in the final and every body else got struck down by some spiritual being.

 

[Johnno22]

Structures are one thing - a fast break is another.

You use structures in a measured attack and in meeting that measured attack as a defender you have structures set up to defeat the attack.

Im talking about when your team is in an attacking structure and you are stripped of the ball - all of a sudden your structure is rendered useless and you have to react.

We get scored against easily in this scenario as we have a particularly weak link in this area. Not just not quick like sheed and other teams not particularly lightning mids - im talking a guy who can be run down by lumbering giants - there is quite literally not a single player in the afl that cant outrun/ run down priddis.

Thats why he wasnt drafted. He isnt just slightly slow - you cant just wish it away by saying well not all players are fast - some have different skills etc - and even then other players who werent fast had silky skills to cover it.

Fast beaks are frequent in modern football and the structures are set up to combat that.

How a team structures up is the basis of todays football, and all players on the field have designated areas they move to in any situation.
This is why new draftees are not given a run as early as they may have been in the past.

There is a lot to learn and structures formulate only one part of the game plan but it is arguably the most important.

What you continue to describe is 70s football or park footy.

As I said previously you and I are in no position to judge as we are not privy to structures and game plan so we totally ignorant of where any player should be at any one time and if he is doing his job as instructed.

Priddis is only one of many noe well established AFL players not to be drafted early in their careers.....Barlow, Zorko, etc

 

[kranky al]

Because Mitchell is a real speed demon isnt he. There are plenty of midfielders out there with average pace that cant chase down anyone. Not many teams can cover a quick turn over.

Where does mitchell play these days?

Last i checked it was off a flank - he gets the odd burst through the middle in the rotation - but then hes flexible and can play other positions on the ground - he also has a laser guided smart munition of a kick.

Priddis doesnt - i love it when people bring him up - he was moved out of the midfield because hes too slow and stays at the hawks because he has other attributes - hes an argument against priddis not for him.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Where does mitchell play these days?

Last i checked it was off a flank - he gets the odd burst through the middle in the rotation - but then hes flexible and can play other positions on the ground - he also has a laser guided smart munition of a kick.

Priddis doesnt - i love it when people bring him up - he was moved out of the midfield because hes too slow and stays at the hawks because he has other attributes - hes an argument against priddis not for him.

I love when people bring him up as an example of players who've been delisted for being too slow

Thought he played predominantly in the middle with occasional stints on a flank. He got more clearances per game than any of his teammates bar Lewis, would be tough to put up those sort of numbers playing off a flank

 

[Smotie]

I repeat, there is no such thing as a Bradbury. In this context used by you as a definitive object and then swapping back to being a person.

There is only winners and losers and I can't see why you can't grasp that.

I say again ,I struggle to see how you responses are at all relevant to the points being made. It's like you pick up a key word and off you so.

By the way, I have huge admiration for Steven Bradbury and was there cheering like most Australians when he won gold against the odds.
This was the culmination of six years of pain and hard work. It wasn't like he was plucked out of the local pub and put in the final and every body else got struck down by some spiritual being.

You must struggle to see my point.
It is an example of what Priddis did. Priddis would not have won the Brownlow if Ablett and/or Fyfe weren't "unavailable" through suspension and injury in the same way Bradbury wouldn't have won gold if the others hadn't fallen over.

It's not that hard really...try and understand the analogy. You might struggle but you will get there I am sure.

 

[kranky al]

Fast beaks are frequent in modern football and the structures are set up to combat that.

How a team structures up is the basis of todays football, and all players on the field have designated areas they move to in any situation.
This is why new draftees are not given a run as early as they may have been in the past.

There is a lot to learn and structures formulate only one part of the game plan but it is arguably the most important.

What you continue to describe is 70s football or park footy.

As I said previously you and I are in no position to judge as we are not privy to structures and game plan so we totally ignorant of where any player should be at any one time and if he is doing his job as instructed.

Priddis is only one of many noe well established AFL players not to be drafted early in their careers.....Barlow, Zorko, etc

On a fast break you have 10 or 15 seconds where you are racing the other way and often that long or less before the other team goal.

Its a race - theres little time for defensive restructuring - what you have is immense pressure put on the ball carrier to hopefully cough it up - or at least cause a sloppy disposal that slows them down enough to form a proper defensive structure.

When you are in an attacking structure to suggest that a team can instantly refom into a defensive structure when your men have been trying to get space on their opponents then find the tables turned is just plain wrong. It takes time to do that and it takes pressure - a guy left 20 m behind the play is creating pressure on his own team - not the opposition.

He might be ready for the next bouncedown but that bouncedown is likely to be the one after the unpire returns the ball to the centre after an opposition goal.

You are making excuses.

 

[Johnno22]

You must struggle to see my point.
It is an example of what Priddis did. Priddis would not have won the Brownlow if Ablett and/or Fyfe weren't "unavailable" through suspension and injury in the same way Bradbury wouldn't have won gold if the others hadn't fallen over.

It's not that hard really...try and understand the analogy. You might struggle but you will get there I am sure.

You must struggle to see my point.
It is an example of what Priddis did. Priddis would not have won the Brownlow if Ablett and/or Fyfe weren't "unavailable" through suspension and injury in the same way Bradbury wouldn't have won gold if the others hadn't fallen over.

It's not that hard really...try and understand the analogy. You might struggle but you will get there I am sure.

There is nothing to understand. The "IF" is not a relevant argument.

Fyffe may had a better chance if he wasn't an idiot subject to brain fades but it is one of his deficiencies and Ablett could have won it any time in the last six years if "other" things didn't or did happen. Totally irrelevant.

Bradbury may have planned to sit off the pace and knew that those in front of him would wipe each other out as such it may have been a tactic that went to plan. He did earn his way into the final and whatever slant you want to put on it is history.

Japan may have won the war or mounted a full on invasion of Australia if we had not elected to abandon the Brisbane Line Plan or Macarthrur hadn't taken the offensive and took the battle to the Japanese in the Coral Sea. Both these things could have gone the other way but it didn't so "IF" is irrelevant.

 

[Pottering]

There is nothing to understand. The "IF" is not a relevant argument.

Fyffe may had a better chance if he wasn't an idiot subject to brain fades but it is one of his deficiencies and Ablett could have won it any time in the last six years if "other" things didn't or did happen. Totally irrelevant.

Bradbury may have planned to sit off the pace and knew that those in front of him would wipe each other out as such it may have been a tactic that went to plan. He did earn his way into the final and whatever slant you want to put on it is history.

Japan may have won the war or mounted a full on invasion of Australia if we had not elected to abandon the Brisbane Line Plan or Macarthrur hadn't taken the offensive and took the battle to the Japanese in the Coral Sea. Both these things could have gone the other way but it didn't so "IF" is irrelevant.

The Bradbury analogy is a poor one, however you define a "Bradbury". Whereas Bradbury was one of just 4 competitors in a winner take all final held once every 4 years, Priddis has been compiling Brownlow votes with great consistency since he began. Before his winning tally of 26 in 2014 he had 13, 9, 19 & 13 in the preceding 4 years. A smart punter (I'm not a betting man myself) might have noted he was a proven vote winner and if he had a better than average year, had no Eagles standouts to take votes off him and a few of the favourites were injured or suspended he'd be a real chance. Then lo and behold when all that happens a few anti-Priddis zealots are up in arms and it's a travesty and the system is a farce. They're just sore losers.

 

[Johnno22]

On a fast break you have 10 or 15 seconds where you are racing the other way and often that long or less before the other team goal.

Its a race - theres little time for defensive restructuring - what you have is immense pressure put on the ball carrier to hopefully cough it up - or at least cause a sloppy disposal that slows them down enough to form a proper defensive structure.

When you are in an attacking structure to suggest that a team can instantly refom into a defensive structure when your men have been trying to get space on their opponents then find the tables turned is just plain wrong. It takes time to do that and it takes pressure - a guy left 20 m behind the play is creating pressure on his own team - not the opposition.

He might be ready for the next bouncedown but that bouncedown is likely to be the one after the unpire returns the ball to the centre after an opposition goal.

You are making excuses.

The defence element is built into the structure before the stoppage or fast break even occurs.

As a difference to years gone by most tackles occur from the front or by players zoning across the ball movement.
You do not see many run downs from behind these days, the pressure comes from the congestion that is created by the structure itself.

This is why players in offensive mode are looking for players in space and the team in defence is trying to cut down that space by zoning, at the same time a
second offensive zone is created to receive the ball on the rebound, like a zone within a zone.

The structures are not static but very much a live thing and a work in progress, week by week.

Also some coaches believe that clearances from stoppages are not as important as previously thought and the pressure is applied by the zone to the second possession from a clearance and creating a turnover. This is one element of thought and could be supported by the increase of scores from turnovers as opposed to scores from the stoppages themselves.

I watched with interest the ball movement against Carlton on Friday night and picked up that on occasions that a third possession from either a turnover or clearance came inside Geelong and Hawthorn like. Not sure if it was a plan or just appeared that way.

 

[Smotie]

There is nothing to understand. The "IF" is not a relevant argument.

Fyffe may had a better chance if he wasn't an idiot subject to brain fades but it is one of his deficiencies and Ablett could have won it any time in the last six years if "other" things didn't or did happen. Totally irrelevant.

Bradbury may have planned to sit off the pace and knew that those in front of him would wipe each other out as such it may have been a tactic that went to plan. He did earn his way into the final and whatever slant you want to put on it is history.

Japan may have won the war or mounted a full on invasion of Australia if we had not elected to abandon the Brisbane Line Plan or Macarthrur hadn't taken the offensive and took the battle to the Japanese in the Coral Sea. Both these things could have gone the other way but it didn't so "IF" is irrelevant.

Hahahaha.

Bradbury knew...he had a premonition...he has a time travel machine... please explain how he "knew".

I am not talking about other years so stop mentioning them and muddying your argument. I am talking about last year in which he was on 22 votes at round 15.
But speaking of other years Ablett has amassed far more votes than Ploddus ever has and ever will. Double in fact so far. On the balance of probabilities and averages of brownlow votes awarded and skill comparison Ablett would have won last year.

You can cry and fret and foam and bring up all sorts of shit about it to muddy the water but at the end of the day you know he would have won it if he wasn't injured.

I have stated previously that I am happy he won it as it's another award to our club. But I am not deceived into thinking he was the best player last year, most consistent maybe and least injured obviously out of all the contenders. AND not reported.

The planets aligned...he did a Bradbury. End of story.

On a previous note...you bitches keep crowing about stats and brownlows but nobody still wants to put up a key moment in a big game where Priddis stood up and turned the game in our favour and won it for us. Did he do it in 2007, 2011, 2012 finals? No he didn't.
You can't do it because it never happened.
All you do is say how much football he gets and how good a bloke he is and he visited kids in hospital and he helped Mrs. Watkins across the street and he doesn't take drugs. He must be great for our club hey?
Pity he doesn't help us win premierships.

 

[Eagle87]

Actually what I was referring to are the type of people who just read what the media says and take it as gospel, instead of analysing things for themselves and coming to their own conclusions.

But the experts, the paid professionals ...

 

[Pottering]

But the experts, the paid professionals ...

I'd take "the experts, the paid professionals" over a bloke lying in bed in Bangkok any day.

 

[Eagle87]

I'd take "the experts, the paid professionals" over a bloke lying in bed in Bangkok any day.

We know that. Kim Hagdorn, Tony Shaw... these guys rock your world ....

They are experts, paid professionals ...

By the way, I generally tell the truth in bed. Even in Bangkok.

 

[Johnno22]

Hahahaha.

Bradbury knew...he had a premonition...he has a time travel machine... please explain how he "knew".

I am not talking about other years so stop mentioning them and muddying your argument. I am talking about last year in which he was on 22 votes at round 15.
But speaking of other years Ablett has amassed far more votes than Ploddus ever has and ever will. Double in fact so far. On the balance of probabilities and averages of brownlow votes awarded and skill comparison Ablett would have won last year.

You can cry and fret and foam and bring up all sorts of shit about it to muddy the water but at the end of the day you know he would have won it if he wasn't injured.

I have stated previously that I am happy he won it as it's another award to our club. But I am not deceived into thinking he was the best player last year, most consistent maybe and least injured obviously out of all the contenders. AND not reported.

The planets aligned...he did a Bradbury. End of story.

On a previous note...you bitches keep crowing about stats and brownlows but nobody still wants to put up a key moment in a big game where Priddis stood up and turned the game in our favour and won it for us. Did he do it in 2007, 2011, 2012 finals? No he didn't.
You can't do it because it never happened.
All you do is say how much football he gets and how good a bloke he is and he visited kids in hospital and he helped Mrs. Watkins across the street and he doesn't take drugs. He must be great for our club hey?
Pity he doesn't help us win premierships.

Again. You cling to the "IF"

IF Jobe Watson wasn't injured for the whole year Ablett would not have got a look in.

IF Judd was six years younger he would have won it

If Nic Nat had been fit and combined more with Priddis, Matt would have won it by 10 votes.

If Michael Tuck had of had a son with Garry Abletts sister he would have won it ( Wait a minute he did have a son and he didn't win it)

You are dealing in fantasy. You are the one playing the fortune teller not me. I deal only with the facts. No muddy waters just facts.
You can say Ablett would have won it if not injured but in no way can you prove or support this notion because it relies on the big If

And you can turn your angst to someone else in regards to your Priddis obsession as I have never been a great Priddis fan. I believe he should be in the side and I might comment if I think your argumenst are flawed but I came into this discussion as a fan of the Brownlow and what it represents.

As I sais previously you seem to see a key word and off you go on your well rehursed rant whether it be relevant or not

 

[Pottering]

We know that. Kim Hagdorn, Tony Shaw... these guys rock your world ....

They are experts, paid professionals ...

By the way, I generally tell the truth in bed. Even in Bangkok.

Yeah, how could those guys' resumes compete with a Bangkok bed man? Surprised no organisation has snapped you up on a big salary to opine on matters football!

 

[Smotie]

Again. You cling to the "IF"

IF Jobe Watson wasn't injured for the whole year Ablett would not have got a look in.

IF Judd was six years younger he would have won it

If Nic Nat had been fit and combined more with Priddis, Matt would have won it by 10 votes.

If Michael Tuck had of had a son with Garry Abletts sister he would have won it ( Wait a minute he did have a son and he didn't win it)

You are dealing in fantasy. You are the one playing the fortune teller not me. I deal only with the facts. No muddy waters just facts.
You can say Ablett would have won it if not injured but in no way can you prove or support this notion because it relies on the big If

And you can turn your angst to someone else in regards to your Priddis obsession as I have never been a great Priddis fan. I believe he should be in the side and I might comment if I think your argumenst are flawed but I came into this discussion as a fan of the Brownlow and what it represents.

As I sais previously you seem to see a key word and off you go on your well rehursed rant whether it be relevant or not

Fairy tales? You are the one who said Bradbury "knew" the others would fall over. Haha

But go ahead and stick your head in the sand If it works for you.

BTW. Where is the powerful priddis moment I kepp asking and get no answer to?

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

So what did people think of priddis game vs Carlton ?
I know it wasn't the best midfield opposition but he seemed to handball a lot more when he would have normally kicked and a couple of times he could have gone the long pass and stopped and found a short option .
He also didn't seem to be offering himself as an option when a better ball user was in the clear .
Make of it what you will but to me it seems like priddis has been asked to stick to his role and not try and do TOO much

 

[Johnno22]

Fairy tales? You are the one who said Bradbury "knew" the others would fall over. Haha

But go ahead and stick your head in the sand If it works for you.

BTW. Where is the powerful priddis moment I kepp asking and get no answer to?

With all due respect Mate, I think you rush your reading of posts and don't pick up the gist of most comments.

It might be important to you going forward to look up the meaning of May be or might have or are you just an angry person looking for a fight.

Again some really weird responses. As for your Priddis moment, why on earth would you continue to ask me, I'm defending the Brownlow and you are on some other tangent.

Not sure what you are suggesting I am sticking my head in the sand with.

 

[Johnno22]

So what did people think of priddis game vs Carlton ?
I know it wasn't the best midfield opposition but he seemed to handball a lot more when he would have normally kicked and a couple of times he could have gone the long pass and stopped and found a short option .
He also didn't seem to be offering himself as an option when a better ball user was in the clear .
Make of it what you will but to me it seems like priddis has been asked to stick to his role and not try and do TOO much

Noticed a big change in ball movement by the entire midfield and half backs and it worked very well in patches

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

BTW. Where is the powerful priddis moment I kepp asking and get no answer to?

What do you mean by powerful priddis moment ?
Like winning a sandover , Brownlow and BnF ?