Play Nice The NM Devil's Chessboard Thread - Part II

[The Warlord]

I suspect this is largely a generational divide.

Lefty's who were young in the 60s, 70s, and 80s largely still fit this mold. That's fine. It's a product of that era.

But younger generations of the left have shifted towards a more social progressivism and in this regard America is no longer the great Satan.

Nah 40 year olds who protested against the invasion of Iraq who no longer hold thst same anger are just sellouts is all.

Thst happens in every generation. Certainly every generation understands 40 to be a clear marker of middle aged.

Lots of people turn more right wing as they age.

Indeed, holding onto thst anger we had about stuff like Iraq is key.

It hasn't got better since then. It's just worse and worse, as we knew it woukd.

Some folks just manage to rationalise that, which is fine.

 

[Chadwiko]

Its not a generational divide, its a divide between people who have their eyes open and people who don't.

Nah. I disagree. It is a generational divide, because the younger generations don't think in absolutes.

You have to understand that for kids who grew up in the post-cold war era, the biggest political issues of their lives have largely been driven by conservatives pushing culture-war nonsense.

I'm talking about;

• Demonizing the gay community during the HIV epidemic
• Demonizing the black community during the war against rap music
• Demonizing everyone in the stupid war on drugs
• Demonizing women in the war against abortion
• Demonizing Muslims post-9/11
• Demonizing the LGBTIQA+ communities in the war against marriage equality
• Demonizing progressives who advocated for gun control after far too many mass/school shootings
• Demonizing everyone who isn't white anglo Christian in their invented "war on Christmas"
• Demonizing BIPOC communities in their war against BLM
• Etc etc etc

For every one of these issues, it was conservative Americans who led the charges in pushing them. But it was also progressive Americans who led the charge against them, and in a society dominated by American culture thanks to the internet shrinking the world, the progressive youth of the Millennial and Gen Z eras have been shaped by these movements.

And that's the point I'm trying to make. These cohorts don't lump all Americans in together as one group like Gen X and older people tend to do. For these younger cohorts it wasn't "America" who tortured prisoners at Abu Ghraib. It was the product of a conservative neo-con government under Bush. Which is why you saw such immense global support for Obama, for example.

 

[The Warlord]

I think you're mistaking the left for middle class people with university education. What some people call the surplus of the elite/ruling class.

These are the kind of people who treat US politics as a kind of massive real world role play game.

You get to pick sides, there's new shit every day, the plot lines put WWE to shame.

But you have no skin the game. You donr have to go doorknock or any shit.

There is also a clear cohort who have embraced US sports, especially basketball and the NFL (poor old ice hockey and baseball stooged) in a huge way.

Expansion of cable TV and internet have made that boom. In that sense US soft power has been successful.

None of which explains why the U S occupation of Syria in 2024 makes it less of a Great Satan than the occupation of Iraq was in 2003

 

[The Warlord]

Nah. I disagree. It is a generational divide, because the younger generations don't think in absolutes.

You have to understand that for kids who grew up in the post-cold war era, the biggest political issues of their lives have largely been driven by conservatives pushing culture-war nonsense.

I'm talking about;

• Demonizing the gay community during the HIV epidemic
• Demonizing the black community during the war against rap music
• Demonizing everyone in the stupid war on drugs
• Demonizing women in the war against abortion
• Demonizing Muslims post-9/11
• Demonizing the LGBTIQA+ communities in the war against marriage equality
• Demonizing progressives who advocated for gun control after far too many mass/school shootings
• Demonizing everyone who isn't white anglo Christian in their invented "war on Christmas"
• Demonizing BIPOC communities in their war against BLM
• Etc etc etc

For every one of these issues, it was conservative Americans who led the charges in pushing them. But it was also progressive Americans who led the charge against them, and in a society dominated by American culture thanks to the internet shrinking the world, the progressive youth of the Millennial and Gen Z eras have been shaped by these movements.

And that's the point I'm trying to make. These cohorts don't lump all Americans in together as one group like Gen X and older people tend to do. For these younger cohorts it wasn't "America" who tortured prisoners at Abu Ghraib. It was the product of a conservative neo-con government under Bush. Which is why you saw such immense global support for Obama, for example.

Lol what would you know about gay people bring demonised in the AIDS epidemic.

That shit was really bad in the mid to late 80s, how old were you in 1986

Living through that politicised YOU in a way wouldn't understand lol.

I had friends at the Tasty raid lol. And I also know the real world changing activism on AIDS was done by people lots older than me

 

[Chadwiko]

Lol what would you know about gay people bring demonised in the AIDS epidemic.

Where did I say I was talking about myself?

 

[The Warlord]

Anyway, brilliant days posting lads, signing off for now.

"George W Bush and Dick Cheney weren't actually all that shit" clubhouse leader much of the day.

But the stolen valour of AIDS politicisation is just too good.

 

[Chadwiko]

"George W Bush and Dick Cheney weren't actually all that shit" clubhouse leader much of the day.

Literally no one said that.

So I guess we're going back to this;

 

[Chadwiko]

There is also a clear cohort who have embraced US sports, especially basketball and the NFL (poor old ice hockey and baseball stooged) in a huge way.

Nah 40 year olds who protested against the invasion of Iraq who no longer hold thst same anger are just sellouts is all.

Some folks just manage to rationalise that, which is fine.

lol nice bait.

I want you to remember posts like these next time you accuse me of being the one who trolls/derails the thread with personal attacks.

Also maybe a good opportunity for you to realise you're no where near as slick as you seem to think you are.

 

[DesertRoo]

Nah. I disagree. It is a generational divide, because the younger generations don't think in absolutes.

You have to understand that for kids who grew up in the post-cold war era, the biggest political issues of their lives have largely been driven by conservatives pushing culture-war nonsense.

I'm talking about;

• Demonizing the gay community during the HIV epidemic
• Demonizing the black community during the war against rap music
• Demonizing everyone in the stupid war on drugs
• Demonizing women in the war against abortion
• Demonizing Muslims post-9/11
• Demonizing the LGBTIQA+ communities in the war against marriage equality
• Demonizing progressives who advocated for gun control after far too many mass/school shootings
• Demonizing everyone who isn't white anglo Christian in their invented "war on Christmas"
• Demonizing BIPOC communities in their war against BLM
• Etc etc etc

For every one of these issues, it was conservative Americans who led the charges in pushing them. But it was also progressive Americans who led the charge against them, and in a society dominated by American culture thanks to the internet shrinking the world, the progressive youth of the Millennial and Gen Z eras have been shaped by these movements.

And that's the point I'm trying to make. These cohorts don't lump all Americans in together as one group like Gen X and older people tend to do. For these younger cohorts it wasn't "America" who tortured prisoners at Abu Ghraib. It was the product of a conservative neo-con government under Bush. Which is why you saw such immense global support for Obama, for example.

Everyone of these issues in ‘emerica was to stop one thing and that’s the picket line.
The culture wars were deliberate strategy by both sides, to create a generation of people fighting over everything else but the class war..

There ain’t no war but the class war baby

 

[DesertRoo]

Lol what would you know about gay people bring demonised in the AIDS epidemic.

That shit was really bad in the mid to late 80s, how old were you in 1986

Living through that politicised YOU in a way wouldn't understand lol.

I had friends at the Tasty raid lol. And I also know the real world changing activism on AIDS was done by people lots older than me

I’ve got friends back to when being gay was illegal, oh the stories you hear, some of them still spit at the feet of the po po for what they did.

 

[Chadwiko]

Everyone of these issues in ‘emerica was to stop one thing and that’s the picket line.
The culture wars were deliberate strategy by both sides, to create a generation of people fighting over everything else but the class war.

Yeah, nah.

 

[DesertRoo]

Yeah, nah.

Lol,
How comfortable do you think people are crossing the picket line these days?

You should see what happened after occupy wallstreet.

 

[ferball]

Nah. I disagree. It is a generational divide, because the younger generations don't think in absolutes.

You have to understand that for kids who grew up in the post-cold war era, the biggest political issues of their lives have largely been driven by conservatives pushing culture-war nonsense.

I'm talking about;

• Demonizing the gay community during the HIV epidemic
• Demonizing the black community during the war against rap music
• Demonizing everyone in the stupid war on drugs
• Demonizing women in the war against abortion
• Demonizing Muslims post-9/11
• Demonizing the LGBTIQA+ communities in the war against marriage equality
• Demonizing progressives who advocated for gun control after far too many mass/school shootings
• Demonizing everyone who isn't white anglo Christian in their invented "war on Christmas"
• Demonizing BIPOC communities in their war against BLM
• Etc etc etc

For every one of these issues, it was conservative Americans who led the charges in pushing them. But it was also progressive Americans who led the charge against them, and in a society dominated by American culture thanks to the internet shrinking the world, the progressive youth of the Millennial and Gen Z eras have been shaped by these movements.

And that's the point I'm trying to make. These cohorts don't lump all Americans in together as one group like Gen X and older people tend to do. For these younger cohorts it wasn't "America" who tortured prisoners at Abu Ghraib. It was the product of a conservative neo-con government under Bush. Which is why you saw such immense global support for Obama, for example.

Every one of those issues are American Domestic Political Issues.

The rest of the world couldn't give a **** about gun control in the US or the PMRC (Led by "progressive" Al Gore's wife while she was chasing conservative Christian votes) demonising punk, metal and hip hop or what happened to the West Memphis 3. (BTW That stuff happened when Gen X were kids.) They don't know there is a war on Christmas cos there are real wars where they live. They don't have access to abortion clinics and couldn't give a **** about who does because the daily walk to get fresh water exposes them to kidnapping by rapist militias driven (and armed) by the competition for resources between major powers.

They don't care about BLM cos their trade union leaders get murdered on the orders of companies like Coca Cola and Shell. They know their lives don't matter to the people with power.

Post 9/11 they weren't worried about the demonisation of Muslims, they were worried about the actual bombing of innocent Muslims by administrations led by progressives like Clinton and Obama or the wholesale slaughter carried out by groups like ISIS that wouldn't exist without US intervention in the Middle East and attempts by the US to leverage young secular Arabs and Persians' disgust with their leaders into "regime change" the US wanted.

If the Western left gave a **** about those people instead of just fixating on domestic culture war bullshit then they wouldn't be looking to Russia and China in the hope of someone giving them a fair go.

 

[ferball]

Yeah, nah.

Yeah yeah. That's how out of touch you are Chad.

You're 10 or 20 years younger than me and you're that out of touch.

 

[ferball]

Lol,
How comfortable do you think people are crossing the picket line these days?

You should see what happened after occupy wallstreet.

I had friends that were involved with organising occupy and were there. They told me first hand how brutally that was put down.

Yay for progressive America.

 

[ferball]

Lol what would you know about gay people bring demonised in the AIDS epidemic.

That shit was really bad in the mid to late 80s, how old were you in 1986

Living through that politicised YOU in a way wouldn't understand lol.

I had friends at the Tasty raid lol. And I also know the real world changing activism on AIDS was done by people lots older than me

I had friends at Tasty that night too. I've been there, i'm not gay either but that whole vibe very inclusive and open to anyone. Party, have a good time and celebrate being alive with each other and personal differences or preferences didn't matter. We've regressed since then, which is why we make such a big show of caring about it.

And yes people our age in the sexuality letters community saw a generation of their elders die with no one in the establishment giving a **** about it.

 

[DesertRoo]

I had friends that were involved with organising occupy and were there. They told me first hand how brutally that was put down.

Yay for progressive America.

Is this really happening?
We’re going to argue the picket line isn’t issue number 1,2 and 3?

 

[Chadwiko]

Every one of those issues are American Domestic Political Issues.

Except they aren't, in a new cultural diaspora where American culture dominates the world. Which is precisely what I explained.

The rest of the world couldn't give a ** about gun control in the US or the PMRC (Led by "progressive" Al Gore's wife while she was chasing conservative Christian votes) demonising punk, metal and hip hop or what happened to the West Memphis 3. (BTW That stuff happened when Gen X were kids.) They don't know there is a war on Christmas cos there are real wars where they live. They don't have access to abortion clinics and couldn't give a ** about who does because the daily walk to get fresh water exposes them to kidnapping by rapist militias driven (and armed) by the competition for resources between major powers.

They don't care about BLM cos their trade union leaders get murdered on the orders of companies like Coca Cola and Shell. They know their lives don't matter to the people with power.

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to convey here because you're conflating multiple issues.

If the Western left gave a **** about those people instead of just fixating on domestic culture war bullshit then they wouldn't be looking to Russia and China in the hope of someone giving them a fair go.

If you genuinely think the "Western left" kids are looking to Russia or China as some sort of beacons of progressivsm or something, then gee... I dunno what to tell you. But you're wildly, wildly out of touch.

 

[Chadwiko]

Yeah yeah. That's how out of touch you are Chad.

If you and DR genuinely believe that every major political issue is manufactured by the elites to stave off a class-war, then the political positions you both clearly subscribe to make even less sense in that context.

 

[ferball]

This song is 20 years old.

What's changed?

 

[ferball]

Except they aren't, in a new cultural diaspora where American culture dominates the world. Which is precisely what I explained.

I think this is a deluded attitude. I'd even go as far as to say its a white supremicist attitude.

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to convey here because you're conflating multiple issues.



If you genuinely think the "Western left" kids are looking to Russia or China as some sort of beacons of progressivsm or something, then gee... I dunno what to tell you. But you're wildly, wildly out of touch.

There are no Western left kids anymore.

There is no economic justice. When they start screaming for it then they'll find the left.

All the things you mentioned in that list ... rejecting those wars is something decent people on all sides of politics support.

 

[ferball]

Is this really happening?
We’re going to argue the picket line isn’t issue number 1,2 and 3?

When you pare it back to the bones all race wars are class wars. That's why so many historical anti-colonialist movements were Marxist. You'd struggle to find one that wasn't.

 

[Chadwiko]

This song is 20 years old.

What's changed?

Immortal Technique is a 9/11 truther and general conspiracy theorist tin-foil hat type. Shit, he's been on Alex Jones' InfoWars multiple times talking about the deep state and the New World Order etc.

Good rapper. Hardly someone to look to as a reliable source lol.

 

[ferball]

If you genuinely think the "Western left" kids are looking to Russia or China as some sort of beacons of progressivsm or something, then gee... I dunno what to tell you. But you're wildly, wildly out of touch.

I'll spell it out for you.

Western left kids have no solidarity with the people for whom those issues are life and death problems. If they did they'd be terrorists.

 

[Chadwiko]

I think this is a deluded attitude.

I'll bet you do. Because you're out-of touch.

I'd even go as far as to say its a white supremicist attitude.

LOL

There are no Western left kids anymore.

"Only my generation knows how to be true leftys!"