Play Nice The NM Devil's Chessboard Thread - Part II

[Sphynx]

Extremely childish and stupid way of looking at the situation. The Hamas fighters who carried out the October 7th attacks did so because it was their last chance to do something, anything to upset the status quo that allowed Israel to exist with a giant concentration camp under its control, to slowly starve, humiliate and exploit the captive Palestinian population of Gaza, and to institute Apartheid upon the West Bank. It was a direct response to the Abraham accords where many of Palestine's neighbours who used to uphold a measure of solidarity formally turned their back on them by normalizing relations with Israel.

I have to ask you, if that were you, living in a de facto concentration camp where you constantly hear the buzzing of Israeli surveillance drones, where there's never enough to eat because Israel has determined the exact minimal amount of food they can allow into Gaza that will keep the population alive but starving, you're not even allowed to fish or swim in the mediterranean off your coast because if you enter the water you'll be bombed or shot at by the Israelis, you've lost multiple family members and friends your age to the random acts of terrorism that Israeli politicians refer to as "mowing the lawn" where they periodically enter the city to murder your people indiscriminately, and if you're ever allowed to leave, which is already unlikely, by the Israelis who control your borders, you will certainly never be allowed to come home? Would you feel particularly desperate not to upset Israel, for fear that they might start abusing you?

Perhaps their mistake was underestimating just how ****ing inhuman Israel has become, I'll grant you that. I just don't know how you could look at that status quo, if indeed you knew any of this before shooting your mouth off, and determined that anyone who were forced to live under it would feel like it was a status quo worth preserving.

You could have saved yourself the waffle.

I’m not absolving Israel of what they have done, just providing context of what they might be trying to achieve.

You can cheerlead all you want, but the reality is there are victims on both sides.

Hamas could have targeted solely military targets, they didn’t. They would have been aware of the likely consequences. How they conceived this to be the only way out, well, you also need to consider Irans plan in all of this. Hamas and Hezbollah ain’t doing anything without Daddy’s instruction.

Turn it up. This started long before October 7th.

And they’ve already overreacted.

No shit Sherlock.

From Israel’s perspective, it wasn’t enough though, was it? Here we are. Completely flown off the handle now.

There’s wrongs on all sides of this.

Posts like the above trying to paint Hamas murdering kids as OK essentially “an eye for an eye” are just as looney as the RWNJ’s going all in on Israel.

 

[bengrina]

Extremely childish and stupid way of looking at the situation. The Hamas fighters who carried out the October 7th attacks did so because it was their last chance to do something, anything to upset the status quo that allowed Israel to exist with a giant concentration camp under its control, to slowly starve, humiliate and exploit the captive Palestinian population of Gaza, and to institute Apartheid upon the West Bank. It was a direct response to the Abraham accords where many of Palestine's neighbours who used to uphold a measure of solidarity formally turned their back on them by normalizing relations with Israel.

I have to ask you, if that were you, living in a de facto concentration camp where you constantly hear the buzzing of Israeli surveillance drones, where there's never enough to eat because Israel has determined the exact minimal amount of food they can allow into Gaza that will keep the population alive but starving, you're not even allowed to fish or swim in the mediterranean off your coast because if you enter the water you'll be bombed or shot at by the Israelis, you've lost multiple family members and friends your age to the random acts of terrorism that Israeli politicians refer to as "mowing the lawn" where they periodically enter the city to murder your people indiscriminately, and if you're ever allowed to leave, which is already unlikely, by the Israelis who control your borders, you will certainly never be allowed to come home? Would you feel particularly desperate not to upset Israel, for fear that they might start abusing you?

Perhaps their mistake was underestimating just how ****ing inhuman Israel has become, I'll grant you that. I just don't know how you could look at that status quo, if indeed you knew any of this before shooting your mouth off, and determined that anyone who were forced to live under it would feel like it was a status quo worth preserving.

Couldn’t have summed it up better myself mate. I was so naive to what was going on in Palestine pre 2023 . Sickens me to think the life they’ve been subjected to. The world now sees this for what it is . No amount of gaslighting can change this.

 

[Val Keating]

You could have saved yourself the waffle.

I’m not absolving Israel of what they have done, just providing context of what they might be trying to achieve.

You can cheerlead all you want, but the reality is there are victims on both sides.

Hamas could have targeted solely military targets, they didn’t. They would have been aware of the likely consequences. How they conceived this to be the only way out, well, you also need to consider Irans plan in all of this. Hamas and Hezbollah ain’t doing anything without Daddy’s instruction.



No shit Sherlock.

From Israel’s perspective, it wasn’t enough though, was it? Here we are. Completely flown off the handle now.

There’s wrongs on all sides of this.

Posts like the above trying to paint Hamas murdering kids as OK essentially “an eye for an eye” are just as looney as the RWNJ’s going all in on Israel.

Do you look on South Africa’s apartheid from the white South Africans point of view as well?

 

[The Warlord]

What's the long game for Israel? completely wipe out Palestine? Then what....try and take on Lebanon and Iran. Fighting wars on multiple fronts doesn't seem like a sustainable war model.

They're going as hard as they can on all pre-existing fronts before the US election, then see where they've got to imo.

 

[Val Keating]

 

[Sphynx]

Do you look on South Africa’s apartheid from the white South Africans point of view as well?

What a wild comment.

Do you pull your anti semitism from the Nazi’s ideology?

As I said, what Israel are doing is abhorrent, I was merely passing comment on what I think their intentions are and commenting on the other faction in here that’s just basically anti-US at every turn, which has some merit.

But the sabre rattling in here almost reveling in 8 soldiers being killed is on the pale.

Just like if people in here came in going, those “Israeli’s really ****ed up Hezbollah with those pager bombs!” When most of the casualties were nearby civilians.

There’s clearly some cheer leading for sides at the moment, when in reality it’s just civilians getting the brunt of it at as usual.

The hundreds of civilians didn’t deserve to die, get kidnapped, r*ped etc by terrorists whilst enjoying a holiday.

Just like the thousands and thousands didn’t deserve to die at the hands of this murderous Israeli regime.

No doubt it’s Israeli civilians that will get the brunt of any reaction and then the Iranian people, the same people that want to overthrow their backwater dinosaur of a government. And around and around we go.

 

[Val Keating]

What a wild comment.

Do you pull your anti semitism from the Nazi’s ideology?

As I said, what Israel are doing is abhorrent, I was merely passing comment on what I think their intentions are and commenting on the other faction in here that’s just basically anti-US at every turn, which has some merit.

But the sabre rattling in here almost reveling in 8 soldiers being killed is on the pale.

Just like if people in here came in going, those “Israeli’s really ****ed up Hezbollah with those pager bombs!” When most of the casualties were nearby civilians.

There’s clearly some cheer leading for sides at the moment, when in reality it’s just civilians getting the brunt of it at as usual.

The hundreds of civilians didn’t deserve to die, get kidnapped, r*ped etc by terrorists whilst enjoying a holiday.

Just like the thousands and thousands didn’t deserve to die at the hands of this murderous Israeli regime.

No doubt it’s Israeli civilians that will get the brunt of any reaction and then the Iranian people, the same people that want to overthrow their backwater dinosaur of a government. And around and around we go.

You know that Israel was found guilty of apartheid years ago yeah?

A Threshold Crossed

The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and...

www.hrw.org

From recently,

The International Court of Justice in its 2024 advisory opinion found that Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories is in breach of Article 3 of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, including "racial segregation and apartheid".

Israeli apartheid - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ichiro #51]

What a wild comment.

Do you pull your anti semitism from the Nazi’s ideology?

As I said, what Israel are doing is abhorrent, I was merely passing comment on what I think their intentions are and commenting on the other faction in here that’s just basically anti-US at every turn, which has some merit.

But the sabre rattling in here almost reveling in 8 soldiers being killed is on the pale.

Just like if people in here came in going, those “Israeli’s really ****ed up Hezbollah with those pager bombs!” When most of the casualties were nearby civilians.

There’s clearly some cheer leading for sides at the moment, when in reality it’s just civilians getting the brunt of it at as usual.

The hundreds of civilians didn’t deserve to die, get kidnapped, r*ped etc by terrorists whilst enjoying a holiday.

Just like the thousands and thousands didn’t deserve to die at the hands of this murderous Israeli regime.

No doubt it’s Israeli civilians that will get the brunt of any reaction and then the Iranian people, the same people that want to overthrow their backwater dinosaur of a government. And around and around we go.

TL/DR : No point having an opinion on any of it - they’re all ****ed anyway.

 

[Val Keating]

What a wild comment.

Do you pull your anti semitism from the Nazi’s ideology?

As I said, what Israel are doing is abhorrent, I was merely passing comment on what I think their intentions are and commenting on the other faction in here that’s just basically anti-US at every turn, which has some merit.

But the sabre rattling in here almost reveling in 8 soldiers being killed is on the pale.

Just like if people in here came in going, those “Israeli’s really ****ed up Hezbollah with those pager bombs!” When most of the casualties were nearby civilians.

There’s clearly some cheer leading for sides at the moment, when in reality it’s just civilians getting the brunt of it at as usual.

The hundreds of civilians didn’t deserve to die, get kidnapped, r*ped etc by terrorists whilst enjoying a holiday.

Just like the thousands and thousands didn’t deserve to die at the hands of this murderous Israeli regime.

No doubt it’s Israeli civilians that will get the brunt of any reaction and then the Iranian people, the same people that want to overthrow their backwater dinosaur of a government. And around and around we go.

And spare me the tears over 8 IDF terrorists, I’ve seen too many atrocities committed by the IDF to give a flying **** about any of them. dead children after bombings..almost daily. They kill unarmed civilians in the West Bank, they desecrate graveyards, they drive over people with bulldozers for fun.

And how many have been held to account for those atrocities? Their faces are clear in the videos…. yet how many have been arrested or charged?

FFS they make Ben Roberts-Smith look like the tooth fairy

 

[The Butcher]

Val sometimes you like to express your take on the "voice" that might explain away the BS actions of perpetrators, that are not you, upon their victims. Me too. I dunno if yous have history, but thats all I read Sphynx do the last couple pages. Maybe dont jump at the chance to lump them in with their version of the voice, as you wouldnt want to be. Just sayin.

They, the IDF soldiers, are individual people just as vulnerable to all sorts of shit****ery as the rest of us, not clones in star wars. I dont want to forget that. How else does the cycle end.

 

[Val Keating]

Val sometimes you like to express your take on the "voice" that might explain away the BS actions of perpetrators, that are not you, upon their victims. Me too. I dunno if yous have history, but thats all I read Sphynx do the last couple pages. Maybe dont jump at the chance to lump them in with their version of the voice, as you wouldnt want to be. Just sayin.

They, the IDF soldiers, are individual people just as vulnerable to all sorts of shit****ery as the rest of us, not clones in star wars. I dont want to forget that. How else does the cycle end.

The voice?

 

[The Butcher]

Nevermind. Sry. Play on. I was about to delete but your fast man.

 

[Sphynx]

You know that Israel was found guilty of apartheid years ago yeah?

A Threshold Crossed

The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and...

www.hrw.org

From recently,

The International Court of Justice in its 2024 advisory opinion found that Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories is in breach of Article 3 of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, including "racial segregation and apartheid".

Israeli apartheid - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes?

Is every Israeli citizen guilty of the crimes of someone like Netanyahu?

You do know that Hamas are recognized terrorist organization, yeah? Guilty of crimes against humanity?

You do know that Iran and the IRG setup Hezbollah don’t you? The same Iran with one of the worst human rights records in recent history, especially the regular torture and sexual assault of girls and Women, LGBTI for simply wanting basic equal rights? Public hangings from cranes for any form of dissent against their leaders?

Hamas aren’t the Palestinian people, just like we have seen in recent years, the Iranian people are desperate for change.

Spare me the good guy, bad guy pontification. The victims are the civilians in this. They always are.

People are allowed to feel for the people of both sides of the fence.

 

[Liam Boy]

Yes?

Is every Israeli citizen guilty of the crimes of someone like Netanyahu?

You do know that Hamas are recognized terrorist organization, yeah? Guilty of crimes against humanity?

You do know that Iran and the IRG setup Hezbollah don’t you? The same Iran with one of the worst human rights records in recent history, especially the regular torture and sexual assault of girls and Women, LGBTI for simply wanting basic equal rights? Public hangings from cranes for any form of dissent against their leaders?

Hamas aren’t the Palestinian people, just like we have seen in recent years, the Iranian people are desperate for change.

Spare me the good guy, bad guy pontification. The victims are the civilians in this.

we aren't giving money, guns and diplomatic cover to Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. We don't allow our citizens to go and fight for Iran, Hezbollah or Hamas then come back to Australia and resume their lives like normal. Our politicians don't loudly pontificate about how muslims aren't safe unless Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas are allowed to do whatever they want without scrutiny, and that their "right to exist" supersedes the rights of any individual not to be deprived of rights and property, made a second class citizen, trapped in a concentration camp or just extrajudicially murdered by their security forces.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Liam Boy]

God I'd love to put this campaigner in a dog cage

 

[giantroo]

A big bombing than the one that killed Nasrallah

 

[The Warlord]

Generational deterrence I suspect.

An overreaction so harsh that Iran and its proxies think twice again before hanggliding into music festivals armed with AK47’s to kidnap and kill their kids..

Hamas hasn't been an "Iranian proxy" for years - they fell out badly overt the Syrian fight when Hamas sided with the anti-Assad forces that Iran was fighting.

Their main backer is Egypt. Hezbollah - yes, definitely an IRGC offshoot.

 

[The Warlord]

So Iran deliberately hit bunkers they couldn’t penetrate and tried to destroy planes on the ground that werent there.

They demonstrated they could hit the sites yes. Different warheads/weapons next time.

All the while giving the US a legitimate reason after all these years to bomb the shit out of them.

They gave that reason a couple of months ago and the US desperately scrambled to stop that happening.

Certainly is “interesting” analysis.

Indeed.

 

[The Warlord]

 

[giantroo]

 

[The Warlord]

Doubt it.

Planes are incredibly hard to get on the ground because in a war situation, they just take off as soon any missile launches are detected.

Its why the Russians use rare and expensive weapons like the hypersonic Kinzhals hitting Ukranian airfield to try and catch them on the ground - which they seem to have finally done in terms of taking out the SU-24s.

But its taken them two and a bit years and lots of treasure and effort.

 

[The Warlord]

 

[The Warlord]

This is telling.

The point here is that Iran did hit a main Israeli airbase in a coordinated way. Its Iran demonstrating that in a proper war, it will be able to rain volley after volley of missiles on these places and completely knock them out of action.

 

[Liam Boy]

for all the decades long bluster about Iran's government as a bunch of radical muslamic terrorists who would surely nuke your grandma if we ever let them get their hands on a single molecule of uranium, right now they're showing themselves to be the only state of any significance that's using their deterrent to enforce international law and protect the victims of a rogue state's aggression, while clearly attempting to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible.