Play Nice The NM Devil's Chessboard Thread - Part II

[ferball]

Just had to ask for clarification, they claim they never did it to civilians and definitely not children, men of fighting age who they thought were their targets only.

There's a scene in Full Metal Jacket where a VC sniper does that to a squad of marines in some ruins in Vietnam. Turns out she's a 15 year old girl.

 

[Val Keating]

There's a scene in Full Metal Jacket where a VC sniper does that to a squad of marines in some ruins in Vietnam. Turns out she's a 15 year old girl.

Probably a tactic used since men started to war against each other

 

[ferball]

Probably a tactic used since men started to war against each other

At least since they got accurate firearms.

 

[Chadwiko]

You're not really interested in engaging in good faith at all. This thread would be better if you just posted your links and kept your abusive, gaslighting comments out of it.

I'm sure you'd love it if I stayed out of the thread and you could keep it as your libertarian echo chamber. But unfortunately, it's a public forum and when I see bullshit I challenge it.

But please, tell me more about how sovereign citizens are 'mostly harmless' and not a concern for "the feds". I must have misunderstood when the AFP came to specifically warn my team at work about them and the rising risk associated with their extremism.

 

[ferball]

I'm sure you'd love it if I stayed out of the thread and you could keep it as your libertarian echo chamber. But unfortunately, it's a public forum and when I see bullshit I challenge it.

But please, tell me more about how sovereign citizens are 'mostly harmless' and not a concern for "the feds". I must have misunderstood when the AFP came to specifically warn my team at work about them and the rising risk associated with their extremism.

You're cheerleading the AFP now? The same group that stuck an AR-15 in my 12 year old neighbours face cos they couldn't be ****ed gathering intelligence on criminal activities properly? That raids the ABC or whistleblowers on behalf of conservative and downright fascist politicians.

And you think other people are cooked.

You said those people in Qld were sovcit inspired terrorists. The Qld cops called them fundy Christian terrorists.

Who is right? You or the people who actually dealt with them?

 

[Val Keating]

I'm sure you'd love it if I stayed out of the thread and you could keep it as your libertarian echo chamber. But unfortunately, it's a public forum and when I see bullshit I challenge it.

But please, tell me more about how sovereign citizens are 'mostly harmless' and not a concern for "the feds". I must have misunderstood when the AFP came to specifically warn my team at work about them and the rising risk associated with their extremism.

Oh for **** sake enough. He wrote that he’s known sovereign citizens and they were harmless, as have I btw.

What you’re doing now is text book straw manning to try and discredit Ferbs for some reason I don’t understand.

Are a small portion of sovereign citizens dangerous? Yes. Most are not.

By your logic, all Jews are genocidal lunatics because a small portion of them are because of their ties to Israel.

 

[Chadwiko]

You're cheerleading the AFP now?

Cheerleading? No. Just sharing the fact that because part of my role involves sending people out bush to do disaster impact assessments, the AFP felt it necessary to specifically brief our team on the threat of armed sov-cit nutjobs.

That's just a fact. No "cheerleading" involved whatsoever.

You said those people in Qld were sovcit inspired terrorists. The Qld cops called them fundy Christian terrorists.

Sure. And the AFP specifically cited them as an example of sov-cit related extremism. To me. Directly.

Also called them "terrorists" too for what it's worth. Does that make them someone else's "freedom fighters?"

Who is right? You or the people who actually dealt with them?

Me.

 

[Chadwiko]

He wrote that he’s known sovereign citizens and they were harmless, as have I btw.

Why am I not surprised that 2 of the 4 'usual suspects' of this echo chamber are mates with sovcits.

For most, I'd suspect that would give people pause to self-reflect. I won't hold my breath here though.

What you’re doing now is text book straw manning to try and discredit Ferbs for some reason I don’t understand.

Nah, I'm just pushing back because ferbs said that "the feds" don't care about sovcits and that's just blatantly blatantly incorrect. And when I pushed back, he literally called me "bigoted" hahahaha.

But I didn't see you pull him up on that one, Val. Curious.

By your logic, all Jews are genocidal lunatics because a small portion of them are because of their ties to Israel.

Nah, that's not an extension of that logic.

 

[Chadwiko]

Hard agree here.

They're dangerous scumbags, and I was very worried they were going to kill people I know back during lockdown

Hey just curious ferball and Val Keating - are you going to direct any of your lashing out in defense of sov-cits towards The Warlord as well?

Or is it not actually about the issue for you, and instead is just another excuse for you to attempt a pile-on directed at me?

Let me know!

 

[Val Keating]

Hey just curious ferball and Val Keating - are you going to direct any of your lashing out in defense of sov-cits towards The Warlord as well?

Or is it not actually about the issue for you, and instead is just another excuse for you to attempt a pile-on directed at me?

Let me know!

Jesus Christ. Get over yourself, are you a narcissist? You have people disagreeing with you and you blame them thinking it’s a pile on?

maybe you need to reflect on why 3 individuals disagree with your takes.

You make out like it’s some coordinated attack, but it’s not. The only pm I have with Warlord was from when you doxed him and the only pm I have with Ferbs is about a school friend that moved near him in the hope that he knew her.

But nah, we organised to orchestrate a pile on. If the mods have access to PM’s I’d gladly let them share them.

Maybe stop and think that if you’re the common denominator, maybe you’re the problem.

 

[Chadwiko]

Jesus Christ. Get over yourself, are you a narcissist? You have people disagreeing with you and you blame them thinking it’s a pile on?

maybe you need to reflect on why 3 individuals disagree with your takes.

You make out like it’s some coordinated attack, but it’s not. The only pm I have with Warlord was from when you doxed him and the only pm I have with Ferbs is about a school friend that moved near him in the hope that he knew her.

But nah, we organised to orchestrate a pile on. If the mods have access to PM’s I’d gladly let them share them.

Maybe stop and think that if you’re the common denominator, maybe you’re the problem.

Hey man, I never said or insinuated anything about a coordinated/orchestrated pile-on. You want to talk about an actual "textbook" example of a straw man?

Expertly dodged the actual question though there Val

 

[Val Keating]

Hey man, I never said or insinuated anything about a coordinated/orchestrated pile-on. You want to talk about an actual "textbook" example of a straw man?

Expertly dodged the actual question though there Val

Well Warlord already said he was in strong agreement that Sovereign citizens are a danger.

Some are for sure, but not all. You tar them all with the same brush.

Do you do the same for Israelis?

 

[Chadwiko]

Some are for sure, but not all. You tar them all with the same brush.

Not all sovcits are violent extremists, but all sovcits are delusional morons. And unfortunately a lot of them are on the pathway to violent extremism whether they know it or not.

 

[Chadwiko]

Do you do the same for Israelis?

Any Israeli hard-right nationalists, sure.

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Liam Boy]

Any Israeli hard-right nationalists, sure.

What does an Israel that's not hard-right nationalist look like to you? Because I don't think a society that's premised on giving rights and privileges to one ethnic group at the expense of all others can ever be anything but hard-right nationalist.

 

[Chadwiko]

What does an Israel that's not hard-right nationalist look like to you? Because I don't think a society that's premised on giving rights and privileges to one ethnic group at the expense of all others can ever be anything but hard-right nationalist.

It looks like the millions of Israelis who marched to end the war. It looks like the huge number of Israelis who did not vote for Likud or RZP-Otzma parties in the 2022 elections. It looks like Israeli politicians like Ofer Cassif, who are Clarion progressive voices inside the Knesset.

Perhaps you're unaware Liam Boy but I'm Jewish, and the insinuation that all Israelis or all Jews are responsible for the ongoing genocide in Palestine is ignorant at best, and outright racist at worst.

 

[Val Keating]

Any Israeli hard-right nationalists, sure.

That means any of them that have served in the IDF to maintain the apartheid state.

 

[Chadwiko]

That means any of them that have served in the IDF to maintain the apartheid state.

No it doesn't.

This notion that collective punishment is okay when used against Jews is disgusting.

I just mentioned Ofer Cassif in the post before this one. He was a paratrooper in the IDF. He also was sent to military prison multiple times for refusing orders that he felt violated Palestinian rights.

If you had it your way, he would be considered guilty just because Israel has mandatory military service.

Get a clue.

 

[Liam Boy]

It looks like the millions of Israelis who marched to end the war. It looks like the huge number of Israelis who did not vote for Likud or RZP-Otzma parties in the 2022 elections. It looks like Israeli politicians like Ofer Cassif, who are Clarion progressive voices inside the Knesset.

Perhaps you're unaware Liam Boy but I'm Jewish, and the insinuation that all Israelis or all Jews are responsible for the ongoing genocide in Palestine is ignorant at best, and outright racist at worst.

I'm aware that you're jewish (I wasn't for the longest time but you mentioned it a few pages ago), and I want to be very clear that I'm talking about the state of Israel, not jewish people. I absolutely don't believe or want to insinuate that jews who aren't involved in the project of israel have any responsibility or dual loyalty as it's often called. Many of the voices I listen to closely about this who I've learned the history from are jewish themselves. One of the reasons I find Israel and the way it conducts itself on the world stage to be so abhorrent is the way that they try to frame their state, their actions as inherently jewish and in the interests of the jewish people, which actually is an attempt to conflate jews with israel/zionism, which actually does make diaspora jews around the world less safe. The attempt to use very real, very harmful historical and ongoing anti-semitism as a shield against responsibility for their own actions is disgusting, not least because cynically using that important history as a rhetorical cudgel again puts innocent jews in danger by muddying the waters and making it harder to point to those genuine instances of anti-semitism.

 

[Val Keating]

It looks like the millions of Israelis who marched to end the war. It looks like the huge number of Israelis who did not vote for Likud or RZP-Otzma parties in the 2022 elections. It looks like Israeli politicians like Ofer Cassif, who are Clarion progressive voices inside the Knesset.

Perhaps you're unaware Liam Boy but I'm Jewish, and the insinuation that all Israelis or all Jews are responsible for the ongoing genocide in Palestine is ignorant at best, and outright racist at worst.

He didn’t mention Jews at all in his post.

Most of us never include “Jews” when condemning Israel, except you.

 

[Val Keating]

No it doesn't.

This notion that collective punishment is okay when used against Jews is disgusting.

I just mentioned Ofer Cassif in the post before this one. He was a paratrooper in the IDF. He also was sent to military prison multiple times for refusing orders that he felt violated Palestinian rights.

If you had it your way, he would be considered guilty just because Israel has mandatory military service.

Get a clue.

Same as those that served in the Third Reich under Hitler?

 

[Chadwiko]

I'm aware that you're jewish (I wasn't for the longest time but you mentioned it a few pages ago), and I want to be very clear that I'm talking about the state of Israel, not jewish people. I absolutely don't believe or want to insinuate that jews who aren't involved in the project of israel have any responsibility or dual loyalty as it's often called. Many of the voices I listen to closely about this who I've learned the history from are jewish themselves. One of the reasons I find Israel and the way it conducts itself on the world stage to be so abhorrent is the way that they try to frame their state, their actions as inherently jewish and in the interests of the jewish people, which actually is an attempt to conflate jews with israel/zionism, which actually does make diaspora jews around the world less safe. The attempt to use very real, very harmful historical and ongoing anti-semitism as a shield against responsibility for their own actions is disgusting, not least because cynically using that important history as a rhetorical cudgel again puts innocent jews in danger by muddying the waters and making it harder to point to those genuine instances of anti-semitism.

I generally agree with a lot of your points here. I know a lot of Jews who are furious like you couldn't imagine at Netanyahu and his cabal of hardliner far-right genocidal enablers. They've empowered more anti-semitists than we have ever seen since the end of WW2.

But the key thing to remember is that an awful and abhorrent government is not wholly representative of an entire country.

Israel has a right to exist, and believing so is not evil.

The current regime needs to be removed and held accountable for their atrocities. And then a new Israeli government commited to peace and the establishment of a free and independent Palestine must be implemented.

But I will always push back on any accusations that infer that all Israelis are complicit, or that Israel shouldn't exist.

 

[Chadwiko]

Same as those that served in the Third Reich under Hitler?

What a disgusting and frankly cheap attempt at drawing a parallel.

 

[Chadwiko]