The Nuclear debate

[SaintsSeptember]

Hinkley Point in England was supposed to cost about £18 billion, but is expected to end up costing £35 billion (in 2015 pounds) and not be ready until 2029 to 2031. It was announced in 2010.

Anything our government make turns into a money pit.
While others build desalination plants as easily as shopping centres, somehow the Victorian one turned into the most expensive in the world. So no reason to expect better with a Nuclear power plant.

Wonthaggi Desal Plant : Original Estimate : 2.9Billion, revised estimate, 3.1Billion, revised again 3.5 Billion.
Winning Tender came in at 4 Billion. It costs around $600 million per year to run ( by contract ).

This similarly aged plant in the USA ( half the capacity ). cost around a Billion and costs $100 million per year to run.
So 2 Billion and $200 Million a year for a similar capacity.

Claude "Bud" Lewis Carlsbad Desalination Plant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Renewables will be far chepaer per kwh but if the power price falls then people will switch to evs and produce hydrogen increasing the overall cost. Is that their argument

If thats the argumemt then the libs have to add petrol costs in vehicles and gas/oil costs in industry (which would be displaced by hydrogen) as part of their overall costs. They also need to subtact off the revenue generated from hydrogen exports from the labor costs.

Its going to make labors plan look far cheaper then I even realised

Storage is expensive.

 

[nut]

The capacity argument is irrelevant because the cost of renewables per unit of capacity is like a sixth the cost of nuclear per capacity. So you can build lots and lots of excess capacity and it’s still way cheaper.

Yes… but you can use the over capacity… like cranking up a desalination plant. … which you might need …. When you’ve had weeks and weeks of sun.

 

[nut]

Overcapacity is why we are building Snowy 2…. It’s got 2 weeks of power storage. There will be plenty of overcapacity periods in any 2 week period, meaning the cost to charge up Snowy 2 will relatively cheap…

A lot of businesses that have periodical high power use can be channeled to use power on over capacity days….

Overcapacity will encourage more people into EVs reducing more fossil fuels.

Overcapacity will drive prices down.,,

 

[nut]

Storage is expensive

The price of battery cells is falling everyday….

I believe it’s cost affective to go off grid now… especially with V2L as back up.

Which begs the question… who will be left to pay for the grid when millions go off grid?

 

[Gavin Excell]

The media absolutely have to pan this like they never have a consulting report before.

If they dont then our media is simply not compotent and fit for purpose

They won't because they barrack for the coalition

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes… but you can use the over capacity… like cranking up a desalination plant. … which you might need …. When you’ve had weeks and weeks of sun.

You can, i wish they would. They just buy offsets and its charged back to the government.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

No you don’t if you have Gas as a back up.
Sure if you want 100 % renewables then you would need over capacity. … remember also the cost of renewables continues to fall, thus overcapacity

Yeah, but the labor plan is to be close to 100% renewable so you need massive over capacity as gas would be an emergency fall back position.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Overcapacity is why we are building Snowy 2…. It’s got 2 weeks of power storage. There will be plenty of overcapacity periods in any 2 week period, meaning the cost to charge up Snowy 2 will relatively cheap…

A lot of businesses that have periodical high power use can be channeled to use power on over capacity days….

Overcapacity will encourage more people into EVs reducing more fossil fuels.

Overcapacity will drive prices down.,,

Snowy 2 is 350 000MWH, which is like Loy Yang for 4 days, but Snowy is also to be used by NSW.
Snowy 2 will cost 12 Billion, despite making use of existing dams.
To build a similar , Greenfields installation would cost a lot more. You'd be looking at close to Nuclear costs.
Which is why i said storage isn't cheap.

Snowy 2 will need a lot of your overcapacity for pumping the water back up.

Surely we wouldn't have three days of wind free drizzly weather in winter would we?

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

The price of battery cells is falling everyday….

I believe it’s cost affective to go off grid now… especially with V2L as back up.

Which begs the question… who will be left to pay for the grid when millions go off grid?

This is a genuine concern. RTS is ubiquitous now and it wont be long until a large proportion of these households install some sort of storage and realise they are better off going off grid.

The most vulnerable will become even more vulnerable.

 

[nut]

Snowy 2 is 350 000MWH, which is like Loy Yang for 4 days, but Snowy is also to be used by NSW.
Snowy 2 will cost 12 Billion, despite making use of existing dams.
To build a similar , Greenfields installation would cost a lot more. You'd be looking at close to Nuclear costs.
Which is why i said storage isn't cheap.

Snowy 2 will need a lot of your overcapacity for pumping the water back up.

Surely we wouldn't have three days of wind free drizzly weather in winter would we?

 

[nut]

This is a genuine concern. RTS is ubiquitous now and it wont be long until a large proportion of these households install some sort of storage and realise they are better off going off grid.

The most vulnerable will become even more vulnerable.

So if it’s cheaper for an individual house to go off grid than to stay on grid, it’s pretty clear renewables with storage is cheap.
And surely it’s cheaper at large scale!!!!!

 

[Theseventhhamster]

I spose Danny Price wants to retire early. Way to set fire to your credibility

 

[nut]

I spose Danny Price wants to retire early. Way to set fire to your credibility

He told the ABC he did it for free

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Who just happened to do the report for free...

So if they weren't paid for it, why would they fudge the numbers?

 

[Rotayjay]

Look, I think the risks of nuclear are not very high when you're not the dodgy USSR or having an earthquake/tsunami combo. But the government needs to crank up the scare campaign with regard to safety. When Chernobyl blew up, it contaminated all of Europe. This is ripe for a scare campaign.

 

[1990crow]

Look, I think the risks of nuclear are not very high when you're not the dodgy USSR or having an earthquake/tsunami combo. But the government needs to crank up the scare campaign with regard to safety. When Chernobyl blew up, it contaminated all of Europe. This is ripe for a scare campaign.

Albo needs to stop pandering to the media with gloves. They’re not on his side, how much harder can they actually go?

If he goes hard at all the lies and BS maybe he has a chance.

 

[Rotayjay]

So if they weren't paid for it, why would they fudge the numbers?

• Personal relationships with Coalition pollies
• An understanding that they will get lucrative consulting jobs if the Coalition gets in
• The firm's other clients would financially benefit from the Coalition getting in

He who hires the piper calls the tune. While some consultants are legit and useful, consultancy is a wank of an industry, as a whole.

 

[1990crow]

• Personal relationships with Coalition pollies
• An understanding that they will get lucrative consulting jobs if the Coalition gets in
• The firm's other clients would financially benefit from the Coalition getting in

He who hires the piper calls the tune. While some consultants are legit and useful, consultancy is a wank of an industry, as a whole.

Starts with C, ends in Orruption

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So if it’s cheaper for an individual house to go off grid than to stay on grid, it’s pretty clear renewables with storage is cheap.
And surely it’s cheaper at large scale!!!!!

Are you prepared to black out sometimes , or are you going to have fossil fuel on standby?

Houses actually use bugger all electricity so the logic doesn't follow at all.

 

[Rotayjay]

And, of course, not a peep from Australia's largest news website. As of a few minutes ago, there is not one footnote about the nuclear costings on the front page.

 

[Cap]

The media absolutely have to pan this like they never have a consulting report before.

If they dont then our media is simply not compotent and fit for purpose

I've only seen the ABC pan it so far.

That doesn't bode well.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Look, I think the risks of nuclear are not very high when you're not the dodgy USSR or having an earthquake/tsunami combo. But the government needs to crank up the scare campaign with regard to safety. When Chernobyl blew up, it contaminated all of Europe. This is ripe for a scare campaign.

But dude, its GREEN!!!

 

[1990crow]

I've only seen the ABC pan it so far.

That doesn't bode well.

If Labor wins power for a second term they MUST bring in media diversity laws.
It’s not currently a democracy with the way the media is openly right wing conservative and in bed with one party.

 

[1990crow]

The media absolutely have to pan this like they never have a consulting report before.

If they dont then our media is simply not compotent and fit for purpose

The reality is Newscopse is actually just quoting Dutton that Labor’s policy is bad financially and for everyday aussies.

It’s openly corrupt.