The possibility of Essendon innocence: a travesty of justice or conspiracy theory for the ages?

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Here's a copy of the prohibited lists for each year for anyone interested.
TB4 was explicitly added in 2018. It wasn't on any list before that.
It was however, without being named, still banned under the generic clauses in the S2 'Growth Factor' section or S0 'Not approved for human use' section, take your pick. This is why the website said you need to contact ASADA when it doesn't find an exact match. The lawyers knew this, that's why they didn't fight it, the fight was over whether TB4 was injected or not.

 
ThirtyFive said:
Well, when you have 'journalists' (Channel 7) that spend more time in front of the makeup mirror than doing adequate research, it's bound to happen. This is a prime example of shoddy, skim the surface, journalism. She's made herself out to be complete twit and rightly so.
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Ch7 and the HS have long been sympathetic to Essendon
 
Remember when Stephen Dank said straight up on camera to Seven time Walkley winner Nick McKenzie that he had used Thymoson Beta-4 on the players?
 

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blue harvest said:
Here's a copy of the prohibited lists for each year for anyone interested.
TB4 was explicitly added in 2018. It wasn't on any list before that.
It was however, without being named, still banned under the generic clauses in the S2 'Growth Factor' section or S0 'Not approved for human use' section, take your pick. This is why the website said you need to contact ASADA when it doesn't find an exact match. The lawyers knew this, that's why they didn't fight it, the fight was over whether TB4 was injected or not.

Click to expand...
But isn’t the issue here that ASADA and the investigators alledgedly changed the word ’Thymosin’ (legal substance) to ’Thymosin Beta 4’ (illegal substance) in the transcripts and reports?

The issue here is about an alleged effort by those running the investigation to manipulate the wording of the supplement (evidence) in the investigation to frame an argument. IF this is true, this interference is giving rise to the assertion the players were ‘stitched up’. Thats the central issue with all this...
 
Milkshaker said:
Can someone clarify how a club self reports then says we did nothing wrong for the next 9 years? Not sure I get that bit after the passing of all this time? Seems incongruous.
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Because they had been tipped off by Andrew Demetriou who was working with the club chairman David Evans to fix the outcome.

This was to be facilitated by PR whiz Liz Lukin, who now works for the AFL.

The plan was going fine until James Hird suspected he was going to be the head on the plate that such a fix required.

Hirdy jacked up at the idea of being made to take responsibility for the program he'd started.

And here we are.
 
dave10 said:
But isn’t the issue here that ASADA and the investigators alledgedly changed the word ’Thymosin’ (legal substance) to ’Thymosin Beta 4’ (illegal substance) in the transcripts and reports?

The issue here is about an alleged effort by those running the investigation to manipulate the wording of the supplement (evidence) in the investigation to frame an argument. IF this is true, this interference is giving rise to the assertion the players were ‘stitched up’. Thats the central issue with all this...
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I was responding to the false reports that TB4 was listed on the WADA banned list since 2010 but not the ASADA list, when in fact it wasn't explicitly mentioned on the WADA list until 2018.

Haven't read anything lately about the issue you raise.
 
JeanLucGoddard said:
Because they had been tipped off by Andrew Demetriou who was working with the club chairman David Evans to fix the outcome.

This was to be facilitated by PR whiz Liz Lukin, who now works for the AFL.

The plan was going fine until James Hird suspected he was going to be the head on the plate that such a fix required.

Hirdy jacked up at the idea of being made to take responsibility for the program he'd started.

And here we are.
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You don’t think it was unreasonable for Hird to be the fall guy?
 
Aussie Assault said:
Hmmmm. We were docked first round draft picks.. And seconds round draft picks.. And then pushed to the end of the first round in the following year.
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Essendon were given penalties for poor governance, they were never given penalties for getting 34 of their players banned for doping.

Your lucky the AFL didn't impose more sanctions.
 
kane249 said:
Essendon were given penalties for poor governance, they were never given penalties for getting 34 of their players banned for doping.

Your lucky the AFL didn't impose more sanctions.
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I agree, WCE should really be sanctioned for letting Cousins and co run riot on actual illegal drugs for all those years. And for letting Rioli do something other than pee in the cup.
 

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owen87 said:
I agree, WCE should really be sanctioned for letting Cousins and co run riot on actual illegal drugs for all those years. And for letting Rioli do something other than pee in the cup.
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We were told by the AFL at the time to clean up our act or we would face significant penalties, we complied and hadn't had any issues until the Rioli incident more than 10 years later. There is conflicting reports as to what happened with Rioli's test that day, best to let it play out but in any case 1 person being banned is still better than 34.

We were so successful in turning around the rampant off field drug culture, I know for a fact at least one Victorian club approached us and asked for advice on how to curb their problems as well.

But hey thanks for the attempted deflect from Essendon.
 
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owen87 said:
I agree, WCE should really be sanctioned for letting Cousins and co run riot on actual illegal drugs for all those years. And for letting Rioli do something other than pee in the cup.
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You're right. Essendon was not at fault. It was all the players. Can't believe Essendon received any sanction at all! Damn you AFL!
 
dave10 said:
But isn’t the issue here that ASADA and the investigators alledgedly changed the word ’Thymosin’ (legal substance) to ’Thymosin Beta 4’ (illegal substance) in the transcripts and reports?

The issue here is about an alleged effort by those running the investigation to manipulate the wording of the supplement (evidence) in the investigation to frame an argument. IF this is true, this interference is giving rise to the assertion the players were ‘stitched up’. Thats the central issue with all this...
Click to expand...
That's a new one on me. Could just be a clarification to a legal submission though after realising they'd made a clerical error? Not sure this implies a conspiracy.
 
JeanLucGoddard said:
Hirdy jacked up at the idea of being made to take responsibility for the program he'd started.

And here we are.
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Oh to a be a fly on the wall the night that judge's wife paid out on James after a few too many sherbets at a Toorak party.
 
kane249 said:
We were told by the AFL at the time to clean up our act or we would face significant penalties, we complied and hadn't had any issues until the Rioli incident more than 10 years later. There is conflicting reports as to what happened with Rioli's test that day, best to let it play out but in any case 1 person being banned is still better than 34.

We were so successful in turning around the rampant off field drug culture I know for a fact at least one Victorian club approached us and asked for advice on how to curb their problems as well.

But hey thanks for the attempted deflect from Essendon.
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So EFC receives sanctions, cleans up internal processes, key figures involved have departed the club, to the point that there's no more than a handful of people left at the club who were there in 2012, and none in any positions actively involved in the administration of the program in question.

Seems like it was dealt with, to the satisfaction of everyone - oh except for the foamers who wanted to see the club disbanded of course.
 
evo said:
Oh to a be a fly on the wall the night that judge's wife paid out on James after a few too many sherbets at a Toorak party.
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For me the defining image is Tania taking notes while Hirdy has his besty on speaker and leads him on into incriminating himself.
 
owen87 said:
So EFC receives sanctions, cleans up internal processes, key figures involved have departed the club, to the point that there's no more than a handful of people left at the club who were there in 2012, and none in any positions actively involved in the administration of the program in question.

Seems like it was dealt with, to the satisfaction of everyone - oh except for the foamers who wanted to see the club disbanded of course.
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Except of course the players who are still on the list that were doped - and given Essendon won't tell us what they were given we have no idea of knowing whether they were still illegally benefiting from the program.
 
owen87 said:
So EFC receives sanctions, cleans up internal processes, key figures involved have departed the club, to the point that there's no more than a handful of people left at the club who were there in 2012, and none in any positions actively involved in the administration of the program in question.

Seems like it was dealt with, to the satisfaction of everyone - oh except for the foamers who wanted to see the club disbanded of course.
Click to expand...

Yes you got penalized for poor governance

You didn't get penalized for having 34 players banned for a systematic doping program

You do get those are 2 separate issues right?

In any case it's done, Essendon aren't getting the picks back as it was for how the club was run as it's not relevant to the peptide ban that happened after.
 
kane249 said:
Yes you got penalized for poor governance

You didn't get penalized for having 34 players banned for a systematic doping program

You do get those are 2 separate issues right?

In any case it's done, Essendon aren't getting the picks back as it was for how the club was run as it's not relevant to the peptide ban that happened after.
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So your position is that the AFL should have waited until the whole process was complete prior to outlaying a sanction to the EFC instead of taking the quick option and doing it for 'poor governance' so they could be seen to have done something, thus leaving their hands tied at giving out a sanction specific to the outcome of the WADA judgement?

I agree.

Instead they went off half-cocked, not at all like the AFL.

If you honestly believe they're two separate and unrelated issues then there's really nothing I can say further, if you don't then you're being disingenuous, and there's also really nothing worth saying further.
 
JeanLucGoddard said:
Except of course the players who are still on the list that were doped - and given Essendon won't tell us what they were given we have no idea of knowing whether they were still illegally benefiting from the program.
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Given the questionable benefits of TB-4 as a performance enhancing agent, I think we can safely say that it's got little to do with their current performance. The club was pushing the grey areas of PEDs, not injecting steroids and EPO.
 
rmcq said:
That's a new one on me. Could just be a clarification to a legal submission though after realising they'd made a clerical error? Not sure this implies a conspiracy.
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No.. the latest flair up is based on an apparent rewording / manipulation of the wording of the supplement in question contained in the transcripts and evidence files (1) and why ASADA updated the status of the illegal supplement on its website the day before EFC self reported (2).
 

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The possibility of Essendon innocence: a travesty of justice or conspiracy theory for the ages?

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