The rankings (from best to worst) of the 127 VFL/AFL premiership teams

[Meteoric Rise]

I understand why your MO is to talk up teams who get on a run during the back half of the season, finish strong and claim the premiership with a strong win/loss record and percentage over the final 8/10/12 games of the season.

We're all very well aware it's because Richmond weren't able to maintain elite form over the course of a full season in the way that the best premiers this century have. The one chance they had to maintain form over a full season was 2018, and we all know how that worked out for you.

I started a thread this season entitled 'The Changing Face of The Premiership Favourite', because year on year, the Premiership Favouritism fluctuates on close to a week by week basis. Collingwood were installed as Premiership Favourites after round 3, and retained favouritism for the remainder of the season, including on Grand Final Day. And they won the premiership.

When was the last time this happened? Essendon 2000?

Here is the form line leading into the finals for the other teams that were still alive on Semi Final Day:
Brisbane - 9 wins, 2 losses in final 11 home and away games;
GWS - 9 wins, 2 losses in final 11 home and away games;
Carlton - 9 wins, 1 loss in final 10 home and away matches (the loss being a dead rubber against GWS, when they couldn't move from 5th place on the ladder in the final round);
Melbourne - 7 wins, 1 loss in final 11 home and away games;
Port Adelaide - the outlier with only three wins from their final 7 games (though had won 13 matches on the trot prior to that).

So in your deluded world, if any of Brisbane, GWS, Carlton or Melbourne win the flag, they are a strong premier based on their form leading into finals, in addition to winning three finals to win the flag (regardless of whether they lose their Qualifying Final).

But if a team wins 16 of their first 18 matches, secures top 4 and most likely top 2 by that stage, manages their list with an eye on the finals and in the process drop 3 of their last 5 matches, but go through the finals undefeated by beating three of the above 'form' teams, that team is a weak premier because of their form leading into the finals was poor and their winning margins in finals weren't great enough?

Boy oh boy Wowee!

Long and very confusing post trying to justify why Collingwood had the weakest finals performance of any Premier in history but are somehow supposed to be a stronger Premier than most in the last decade, which includes 2 triple Premiership dynasty teams who absolutely dominated finals.

There are 3 games and only 3 games that tell you how good a Premiership team really is Fadge. That is the 3 FINALS games they HAVE to win to secure the flag. How they get there is subject to all sorts of different issues, including whether the team themselves is fully wound up at different stages of the home and away season as you have more or less conceded in your post.

Had Brisbane or GWS for eg kicked one more goal and beaten Collingwood in the PF or GF then under my way of assessing these things they would simply have been a 1 goal better team than they are now. So you have written some absolute tripe born of your own imagination about how I assess the relative strength of Premiership teams.

To be clear, a Premiership team could have a 23-0 home and away record @ 200% but if they fall over the line in each of their finals and require luck to do so, then they cannot be a historically strong Premier. Conversely a team could qualify for finals with 10 wins in the home and away season then smash their way through the finals series and they are a historically strong Premier. Neither of these things happen too often to any great degree, normally the strongest finals team comes from the strongest few home and away teams. This year though there was no clear strongest finals team, and given Collingwood's many advantages afforded by the finals system there is an argument to say they were not even the best performed team in the finals series.

 

[Fadge]

Oh my.

They really do believe what they're posting!

 

[Fadge]

To be clear, a Premiership team could have a 23-0 home and away record @ 200% but if they fall over the line in each of their finals and require luck to do so, then they cannot be a historically strong Premier. Conversely a team could qualify for finals with 10 wins in the home and away season then smash their way through the finals series and they are a historically strong Premier.

And here we have it folks, the most illogical and irrational post in the history of BigFooty from the most illogical and irrational poster in the history of BigFooty.

 

[Fadge]

This year though there was no clear strongest finals team, and given Collingwood's many advantages afforded by the finals system there is an argument to say they were not even the best performed team in the finals series.

Feel free to provide your rankings of the best to worst teams in this year's finals series.

This will be good.

Just to remind you, Richmond don't qualify.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Feel free to provide your rankings of the best to worst teams in this year's finals series.

This will be good.

Just to remind you, Richmond don't qualify.

You could throw a blanket over most of them, so you are mainly splitting hairs. Collingwood did nothing to clearly elevate themselves above several other finalists, unlike most, if not all recent Premiers. And as you have pointed out, Collingwood had a top 2 spot secured relatively early, so they had no conceivable reason to not be at or near their best in finals. Their best was good enough to win a flag, so well done to them. It just wasn't very good compared to what other recent Premiers produced in finals. Let alone better than most of them, as you are absurdly claiming.

You seem to be more triggered than normal about the whole situation Fadge. The world won't forget to credit Collingwood with the 2023 Premiership if you choose to just relax and enjoy it like a standard Premiership team supporter might naturally do.

 

[Fadge]

Collingwood did nothing to clearly elevate themselves above several other finalists....

You're wrong again, as usual.

This proves it:

 

[Danw0w]

You're wrong again, as usual.

This proves it:
View attachment 1831669

You forgot a few

 

[Vankri]

You could throw a blanket over most of them, so you are mainly splitting hairs. Collingwood did nothing to clearly elevate themselves above several other finalists, unlike most, if not all recent Premiers. And as you have pointed out, Collingwood had a top 2 spot secured relatively early, so they had no conceivable reason to not be at or near their best in finals. Their best was good enough to win a flag, so well done to them. It just wasn't very good compared to what other recent Premiers produced in finals. Let alone better than most of them, as you are absurdly claiming.

You seem to be more triggered than normal about the whole situation Fadge. The world won't forget to credit Collingwood with the 2023 Premiership if you choose to just relax and enjoy it like a standard Premiership team supporter might naturally do.

I’d say judging by the Tigers supporters in the last few pages trying their hardest to come up for convoluted reasons the Pies 16th flag is weak they are the triggered ones.

Not sure why, you can enjoy your flags as much as you want, even if they weren’t dominant seasons overall or the Covid factor. Diminishing our flag isn’t going to make yours more impressive, in fact maybe the contrary and same with Geelong unless you want to admit we live in a weak era of football since the post Hawthorn days (I think we somewhat do due to the dilution of talent since the two new teams).

 

[Mr Meow]

Dogs beat both the previous years grand finalists, including one in Perth and one against a dynasty team coming off a three-peat.

They beat a giants side that was gifted the most talent the afl has ever seen. Away from home as well.

They beat the minor premiers and perennial contenders Sydney in the grand final.

Now compare to Collingwood.

They beat the dees by 7 points who:
-had no forward line due to injuries
-had one of their best players knocked out in a thug act at a crucial time
-aided by the dees missing an unusual amount of easy shots (dees had more inside 50s and shots on goal)

Now the prelim:
-Pies had greatest home crowd advantage of all time and could only manage a 1 point win
-GWS were completely and utterly robbed as the umpires put the whistle away. They missed a blatant trip and several high contacts (don't try to justify it when Daicos got a free for high in the opening minutes of the grand final)

Now the grand final:
-they beat the lions who had won one game at the MCG in God knows how many years
-they won by only four points
-they got away with a contentious advantage late in the game (I think it was the right call but many disagree

All this with the bulldogs having two* (22 game season) less wins in a more competitive top end of the ladder, with an injury crisis that Collingwood didn't have to endure.

I think the only reason you "do not need to waste your time with a response" is because you know that the dogs were better.

That's pumping up the Dogs a bit too much.

Hawthorn were cooked that year but clinched all the close games to secure top 4. Geelong beat them and were as close to a 2 man team as I've ever seen that year.

West Coast the year after they make a grand final are often pretty scratchy and underwhelming in finals. 2007, 2016, 2019 ring a bell.

The GWS and Sydney wins were good, even if the last one was controversial (much moreso than people's claims of Collingwood 2023 in the last two games). GWS were still up and coming to a degree and Richmond dealt with them comfortably in subsequent seasons.

That was a weak field for mine with plenty of decent teams but no great ones.

 

[Fadge]

That's pumping up the Dogs a bit too much.

Hawthorn were cooked that year but clinched all the close games to secure top 4. Geelong beat them and were as close to a 2 man team as I've ever seen that year.

West Coast the year after they make a grand final are often pretty scratchy and underwhelming in finals. 2007, 2016, 2019 ring a bell.

The GWS and Sydney wins were good, even if the last one was controversial (much moreso than people's claims of Collingwood 2023 in the last two games). GWS were still up and coming to a degree and Richmond dealt with them comfortably in subsequent seasons.

That was a weak field for mine with plenty of decent teams but no great ones.

Also interesting that Toby Greene said before this year's finals series 'We (GWS) have had more talent on the park, but this is the team (2023) I trust the most to perform.'

So not only did Collingwood beat comfortably the best Brisbane team since they started their finals run 5 years ago, they also beat the best GWS team to have qualified for finals (though I expect their 2024 version to be even better still), and finally a recent premier who has since finished top 4 after home and away the following two seasons.

I thought Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood were a strong trio in 2022, but it dropped away quickly after that. The 2023 eventual top 6 were as strong as we've seen in a long time.

 

[Danw0w]

Also interesting that Toby Greene said before this year's finals series 'We (GWS) have had more talent on the park, but this is the team (2023) I trust the most to perform.'

So not only did Collingwood beat comfortably the best Brisbane team since they started their finals run 5 years ago, they also beat the best GWS team to have qualified for finals (though I expect their 2024 version to be even better still), and finally a recent premier who has since finished top 4 after home and away the following two seasons.

I thought Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood were a strong trio in 2022, but it dropped away quickly after that. The 2023 eventual top 6 were as strong as we've seen in a long time.

Wouldn't the best GWS team be the most talented one?

 

[Danw0w]

That's pumping up the Dogs a bit too much.

Hawthorn were cooked that year but clinched all the close games to secure top 4. Geelong beat them and were as close to a 2 man team as I've ever seen that year.

West Coast the year after they make a grand final are often pretty scratchy and underwhelming in finals. 2007, 2016, 2019 ring a bell.

The GWS and Sydney wins were good, even if the last one was controversial (much moreso than people's claims of Collingwood 2023 in the last two games). GWS were still up and coming to a degree and Richmond dealt with them comfortably in subsequent seasons.

That was a weak field for mine with plenty of decent teams but no great ones.

2016 Hawks were one straight kick away from a home prelim. I don't think they were cooked at all.

The Eagles had 16 wins and 130%, which is enough to make top four most years. Beating them at subi alone was far more impressive than any of collingwoods wins this year. And it was by 47 points, one point away from quadrupling Collingwood's total finals margin.

I'll be willing to admit that the dogs' grand final win was controversial when pies fans admit that their prelim win was controversial. But even still, 4 goals is a decent margin compared to 1 point.

 

[Fadge]

Wouldn't the best GWS team be the most talented one?

Read what I quoted Greene as saying, comprehend what was quoted, then rethink your question.

 

[Mr Meow]

Also interesting that Toby Greene said before this year's finals series 'We (GWS) have had more talent on the park, but this is the team (2023) I trust the most to perform.'

So not only did Collingwood beat comfortably the best Brisbane team since they started their finals run 5 years ago, they also beat the best GWS team to have qualified for finals (though I expect their 2024 version to be even better still), and finally a recent premier who has since finished top 4 after home and away the following two seasons.

I thought Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood were a strong trio in 2022, but it dropped away quickly after that. The 2023 eventual top 6 were as strong as we've seen in a long time.

I would agree that this was the toughest GWS side to play in finals in their history.

Carlton were a smoke and mirrors proposition despite their strong finish, by comparison. They'll get stronger and better. Port, just a mess by the end. But the Pies didn't play either so it doesn't matter.

Melbourne are an odd one to rate. Strong over the park except up forward. Tough to play against but no killer instinct or efficiency. Still, as a recent premier and MCG tenant I consider it a good scalp even if double straight sets takes some shine off.

Brisbane I consider around that Geelong 2019/2020 "good not great" level and trajectory. But they did have weapons and they had a good finals series.

I disagree with the buffoon's notion that a bunch of competitive finals matches mean the winner is automatically weak. Or that the season in its entirety is irrelevant until the last 3 games. The poster is deluded and desperate.

 

[Mr Meow]

2016 Hawks were one straight kick away from a home prelim. I don't think they were cooked at all.

The Eagles had 16 wins and 130%, which is enough to make top four most years. Beating them at subi alone was far more impressive than any of collingwoods wins this year. And it was by 47 points, one point away from quadrupling Collingwood's total finals margin.

I'll be willing to admit that the dogs' grand final win was controversial when pies fans admit that their prelim win was controversial. But even still, 4 goals is a decent margin compared to 1 point.

Trust me at the time I'd have loved to talk them up as that would mean a big Geelong scalp. That QF was two cripples trying to climb up a flight of stairs. Their next matches proved that.

Eagles came off a grand final hammering and were decent most of the year but we are talking like Fremantle 2022. A bit like their 2019 iteration which was also close to top 4.

I've never seen either talked up (e.g during Richmond's flag years) until now.

 

[Danw0w]

Read what I quoted Greene as saying, comprehend what was quoted, then rethink your question.

Yes he said previous Giants teams were more talented, I know.

The Dogs and Tigers beat a more talented GWS team than the Pies did.

He said the current GWS team is more reliable. I don't know how you interpreted that as the "best" Giants team.

 

[YouBeauty]

Ok... That's enough internet for me today.

 

[YouBeauty]

Richmond 2019 vs Collingwood 2023 isn't even close.

Richmond played Brisbane at the Gabba - won by 47 points. Collingwood played them at the MCG - won by 4 points.
Richmond played GWS at the MCG - won by 89. Collingwood played them at the MCG - won by 1.
Richmond played Geelong at the MCG - won by 19. Collingwood played Melbourne at the MCG - won by 7.

Yet crazy uncle Dan has Pies 2023 rated higher? Fact is the Collingwood 2023 flag team has the worst finals percentage of any team in the last 25 years and limped over the line in every finals game. Were a kick or free kick away multiple times from being knocked out. When the media talks about weak years, 2023 is bottom of the barrel.

Lol finals percentage, that's a thing?
Best premier is surely not just about finals series but home and away too.

 

[Danw0w]

Trust me at the time I'd have loved to talk them up as that would mean a big Geelong scalp. That QF was two cripples trying to climb up a flight of stairs. Their next matches proved that.

Eagles came off a grand final hammering and were decent most of the year but we are talking like Fremantle 2022. A bit like their 2019 iteration which was also close to top 4.

I've never seen either talked up (e.g during Richmond's flag years) until now.

I actually went to that game and I will admit it didn't feel like the highest standard final of all time. You still gotta be a good side to beat the Hawks, we weren't in 2016 and we got pumped by them twice. But I understand if it's not rated higher than say, the pies beating the dees this year.

Wins in Perth are never easy though. You gotta give them massive credit for going over to Perth and beating the Eagles on their home deck, by 8 goals no less. Winning in Perth is hard enough at the best of times, let alone in a final.

 

[Danw0w]

Lol finals percentage, that's a thing?
Best premier is surely not just about finals series but home and away too.

Flags are won in September. Just ask any team from 2014-2020.

Or better yet, Geelong 2008.

Or for a Collingwood example, 2011.

H&A is just for qualifying.

 

[Fadge]

Lol finals percentage, that's a thing?
Best premier is surely not just about finals series but home and away too.

You would think so, wouldn't you?

But not in the eyes of our Richmond supporting friends.

I wonder why that would be?

Maybe someone needs to tell them there's a reason percentage is only ever used as a tiebreaker for teams with the same amount of wins...

 

[Fadge]

Flags are won in September. Just ask any team from 2014-2020.

We could actually ask any team who has ever won (or not won) a flag in any given season.

But you realise this thread is about comparing all the teams who have actually won flags, right?

 

[Danw0w]

We could actually ask any team who has ever won (or not won) a flag in any given season.

But you realise this thread is about comparing all the teams who have actually won flags, right?

Why is h&a record so important when it doesn't translate to premierships? Finals performances should 90% of the equation.

 

[Fadge]

Why is h&a record so important when it doesn't translate to premierships? Finals performances should 90% of the equation.

Ask the 56% of teams who don't qualify for finals how important home and away matches are when trying to win a premiership?

But no, you've introduced a new '15/90 rule'.

Personally, I like to consider ALL the data when I form my conclusions...

 

[Danw0w]

Ask the 56% of teams who don't qualify for finals how important home and away matches are when trying to win a premiership?

But no, you've introduced a new '15/90 rule'.

Personally, I like to consider ALL the data when I form my conclusions...

Where did the 15 come from?

Geelong in 08 had 7 more h&a wins than Brisbane in 03 (21-14). What good did those 7 extra wins do if they didn't win the flag?

Like I said, h&a is just for qualifying. Flags are won in September and finals should be emphasised when assessing premiers.