Society/Culture The seemingly growing anti 'western' sentiment in 'western' societies.

[Carringbush2010]

I guess I don't get why people questioning the way we live is so baffling to you. Do you love every aspect of our society?

If doubt you could find anyone that loves every aspect of our society, or any society for that matter, personally I'd like to rid ourselves of the negative consequences of our societies very liberal values.

For example, one could fairly argue that capitalism has been hijacked by profiteering aholes in western liberal societies - probably a consequence of being all free wheeling and liberal and treating even those aholes equally and allowing them freedom. We've ended up with profit gouging monopolies and duopolies etc. The few bad apples that Gethy loves.

Of course, this is impossible.

So yes I can see reason for the anti sentiment, as I said earlier some reasons not so valid but the above is IMO.

Hope that makes sense to you.

The purpose of this thread is not to highlight those with anti views, just to start an argument, it's for my curiosity, coz I'm a greedy ahole that way.

 

[Gethelred]

For example, one could fairly argue that capitalism has been hijacked by profiteering aholes in western liberal societies - probably a consequence of being all free wheeling and liberal and treating even those aholes equally and allowing them freedom. We've ended up with profit gouging monopolies and duopolies etc. The few bad apples that Gethy loves.

... lol at the irony of talking about ****ing monopolies - systemic failures of capitalism - as 'a few bad apples'.

 

[Blue1980]

I think a lot of people perceive an acknowledgement of events as an attack because of fragile ego.

I used to feel the same way - thinking that people talking about Australia's treatment of migrants or our colonial history were trying to thrust white guilt upon me for events that I had no part in. Then I realised that no one was ever asking me to apologise, or pay reparations, or whatever conservative bullshit I'd eaten up; they simply wanted to me understand cause and effect.

I don't have guilt about being a white fella in a western country - my ancestors were convicts and didn't ask to be here, but I now understand that Australia's brutal colonialist past have caused problems that still permeate through Indigenous society today.

So while I see you don't want to "pretend this sentiment doesn't exist", I challenge you to ask yourself on whether what you perceived as attacks on western society is simply asking you to understand why ****ed up things the West has done might have resulted in some of the ****ed up things we see today.

You’re right, the conservative media want to turn it into self hating white people who hate the west just cos.

I used to resent it a bit when it was framed that way, but now I know it’s BS. It’s more about understanding the cause and effect so we can make a better future (that’s how I see it and how I feel personally).

I do worry the post WWII consensus is completely falling apart and we are falling into a trap worldwide we did 90-100 years ago. The post WWII consensus was that we needed strong government to have a strong society and ensure no one is left behind (the US had taxation rates up to 90% in the 50s, a period conservatives glorify but seemingly only the pre civil rights part), it was also a time when their middle class was at its strongest.

While things have never been perfect, I do think we are hurtling towards a time of extreme conflict which is going to ramp up the remainder of the 2020s/2030s. Combine the current world instability with climate change crisis which will lead to scarcity of resources in many places, it’s a tinder box ready to go off.

 

[ferball]

“The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.”

Western civilisation has brought overwhelmingly positive benefits to the world but many want to concentrate on negative outcomes to the exclusion of everything else.

Certainly there were aspects of ALL of the world’s history, and ALL peoples, that were terrible by today’s standards, but nothing can be done to change them. All we can control is what we do this minute.

“Presentism” or trying to apply 21st century Western values to times, circumstances and attitudes we can’t possibly fully comprehend, and wanting to atone, or make reparations for things done to dead people by dead people is a waste. It doesn’t benefit anyone and I’d argue it’s regressive. How can you put a monetary value on long-held grievances, where does it end? What good does it do? No one feels better, other than some momentary self-regard, forgiveness is seldom offered. If anything the grievances evolve and multiply.

Going forward is all that can be done.

Mankind is imperfect. There will never be Utopia or Nirvana, no matter how hard we wish for it.

Western civilisation didn't create that quote you used to start your post did it.

 

[Cap]

If doubt you could find anyone that loves every aspect of our society, or any society for that matter, personally I'd like to rid ourselves of the negative consequences of our societies very liberal values.

For example, one could fairly argue that capitalism has been hijacked by profiteering aholes in western liberal societies - probably a consequence of being all free wheeling and liberal and treating even those aholes equally and allowing them freedom. We've ended up with profit gouging monopolies and duopolies etc. The few bad apples that Gethy loves.

Of course, this is impossible.

So yes I can see reason for the anti sentiment, as I said earlier some reasons not so valid but the above is IMO.

Hope that makes sense to you.

The purpose of this thread is not to highlight those with anti views, just to start an argument, it's for my curiosity, coz I'm a greedy ahole that way.

What are your thoughts on the idea that individualism in western society has gone too far?

 

[sdfc]

What are your thoughts on the idea that individualism in western society has gone too far?

You're should probably flesh that out a bit more.

 

[Cap]

You're should probably flesh that out a bit more.

Look, not my original thought to be honest.

Just thoughts of a few different people that are suggesting our focus on individualism has become so extreme that we are letting things that are of the common good (so things that might not benefit us directly but indirectly or even not benefit as much as others) deteriorate to the point we are essentially destroying what allowed us have this focus on the individual in the first place.

Not a great summation but hopefully you get the gist

 

[bzparkes]

For people talking about the self-flagellation of white people, some interesting discussion in here from around 23:53

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Western civilisation didn't create that quote you used to start your post did it.

No it didn’t but it’s a universal truth.

 

[Captivating]

Great OP.

The liberal indoctrination of people, pushing the CRT agenda and the belief that the West are the oppressors and the rest of the world are the oppressed.

It has never been truer that

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

 

[peetoo]

Are we forgetting that online is majorly negative anyway

And it doesn’t exactly mirror real life?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Great OP.

The liberal indoctrination of people, pushing the CRT agenda and the belief that the West are the oppressors and the rest of the world are the oppressed.

It has never been truer that

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

CRT comes from Western academia. It is taught in Western universities.

Liberalism is Western.


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[Grin]

Great OP.

The liberal indoctrination of people, pushing the CRT agenda and the belief that the West are the oppressors and the rest of the world are the oppressed.

It has never been truer that

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

I agree. The intellectually weak, the dumb and the gullible have allowed themselves to be manipulated through appeals to their irrational fears of 'the other', rendering them mindless drones to their overlords and a threat to liberal democracy.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The emergence of transgenderism with some political influence is a uniquely Western thing.

Claiming this is anti western is idiocy.


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[Grin]

It has never been truer that

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

What about this one?:
Hard times create strong regulation. Strong regulation creates good times. Good times creates weak regulation. Weak regulation creates hard times.

Pretty true in commerce at least. Although I very much doubt that Murdoch or Gina would ever order their drones believe anything like that.

 

[Blue1980]

Great OP.

The liberal indoctrination of people, pushing the CRT agenda and the belief that the West are the oppressors and the rest of the world are the oppressed.

It has never been truer that

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

Thanks Joe Rogan

 

[Blue1980]

The emergence of transgenderism with some political influence is a uniquely Western thing.

Claiming this is anti western is idiocy.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

It is completely nuts to suggest such a thing. It’s like some believe western values is just keeping the status quo as is.

 

[Gough]

The western cultural supremacist love to take credit for Shakespeare and William Blake but runs a million miles absolving themselves of all responsibility if colonisation is mentioned.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

Also this ‘great man’ shit is pre-western, w***ery.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

You’re right, the conservative media want to turn it into self hating white people who hate the west just cos.

Definitely merit in this point!

 

[Carringbush2010]

What are your thoughts on the idea that individualism in western society has gone too far?

Well that's a consequence of liberalism I'd argue, liberalism defined as 'inclusion and freedom for all, even those we don't feel should have inclusion and freedom'

For want of a better term.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

Horse shoe theory?

The point of the op was not to point the finger at, if I may speculate what you're thinking, the irrational progressives.

More so a curiosity to read the mind set of those who do feel self-guilt as a result of being part of our western society.

You'll also note, I did throw a question at the seemingly whiny conservative or even rw who complain about the irrational progressives irrationally.

 

[Gethelred]

What about this one?:
Hard times create strong regulation. Strong regulation creates good times. Good times creates weak regulation. Weak regulation creates hard times.

Pretty true in commerce at least. Although I very much doubt that Murdoch or Gina would ever order their drones believe anything like that.

You're being decidedly more gentle than the last time this came up.

 

[Gethelred]

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men. create hard times.

Hard Times Don’t Make Strong Soldiers

Western strategists keep falling for myths of invincible barbarians.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Are we forgetting that online is majorly negative anyway

And it doesn’t exactly mirror real life?

An alarming number of people get their opinions from TikTok and X.