Society/Culture The Welcome/Acknowledgment of Country thread

[Gethelred]

It is sport. Of course it can do without all the pre game BS. All supporters are interested in is the first bounce, first ball etc.

The desire for politics to be out of sport - all of it - is itself a political stance: you are choosing not to say anything, regardless of the state of affairs.

Think of it like this: there are a lot of footy clubs that take in revenue from gambling. They in general try to avoid criticism of gambling in any press releases; if anything, they try to avoid saying anything, choosing to remain silent.

Victoria's politicians chose to remain silent as to the validity of the protests at the arms expo for fear of that stance being converted into funding for the opposition.

Silence is a statement of support for that which you choose not to try to stop.

 

[Roylion]

You’re ****ing kidding me….

There is no evidence that on the east coast of Australia in 1770, the crew of the Endeavour killed any person. New Zealand was a different story.

 

[schneebly111]

They did create it for that event as they didn't have one to use.

No - if you’d have read the article they went to a local elder and checked the correct words to be used in the ceremony and if it was acceptable to use it for a non indigenous event.

Your posts are on the same level as Hanson now

 

[RedWhite4Ever]

He shot at 2 Indigenous warriors before he got off the boat, wounding one. He definately killed people or ordered his crew to.
Generally speaking he used floggings and terror to subdue the natives on his voyages. He liked
'carving crosses into natives’ flesh in revenge for petty crimes' and cutting through flesh to the bone.
'..on his third voyage, on the quest to find the Northwest Passage, Cook had begun to drown in some unseen, interior deluge. He sank into a black mood, lost touch with reality and inflicted punishments on his crew at the slightest whim. He paced the deck and flew into rages that the sailors called heivas, after a Tahitian stomping dance. He spread terror across the islands, torching entire villages and carving crosses into natives’ flesh in revenge for petty crimes.

How Captain James Cook Got Away with Murder

When he died, admirers believed that he deserved the “gratitude of posterity.” Posterity, of course, has a mind of its own.

www.newyorker.com

He and his crew had sex with the natives knowing he would spread tuburculosis and syphlis .
The diseases he helped spread killed 2/3rds of Australian Aboriginees.

Got an issue with any of that?

Torching villages was just what they did at the time so it was ok.

He shot a Maori. Not an Indigenous Australian.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I always like these conversations. People get caught up in these arguments about things which happened generations ago and for which there is never going to be any answer or resolution. It feels like a grade 6 social studies class right now. It’s a convenient way to never address the real social issues facing current indigenous Australians which can actually be answered and resolved.

How can they be answered and resolved? Biggest problem is lack of meaning and career options in isolated parts of the country. Can't change that without massive industry being brought to the regions, which is often against the will of the local indigenous population.

 

[Obeanie1]

I know 200 years of murder, slaughter, dispossession, stolen lands, rape, stolen families, lowered life expectancy, worse health outcomes, was just not enough. It could have been a hell of a lot worse.

Yes it could have been much worse. MUCH worse.

The government supported murder, slaughter, dispossession of a people could STILL be happening today, like it is elsewhere.

As for criticising someone who reads and educated themselves, that is not a great argument.

Have your heard of the Uyghurs in northern China? Have a read on the link below.

China’s Repression of Uyghurs in Xinjiang

More than a million Muslims have been arbitrarily detained in China’s Xinjiang region. The reeducation camps are just one part of the government’s crackdown on Uyghurs.

www.cfr.org

Now I am not saying two wrongs make a right. However comparing how Australia has progressed in this space as opposed to China and others is a valid observation.

 

[RedWhite4Ever]

There is no evidence that on the east coast of Australia in 1770, the crew of the Endeavour killed any person. New Zealand was a different story.

Correct - Cook did shoot a Maori chief dead. But as for Australia, Cook and the crew of the Endeavour had no contact with Indigenous Australians - because they ran away.

The Endeavour made two landings in Australia, Botany Bay and Cooktown where they had to repair the Endeavour as it was sinking after hitting the Great Barrier Reef.

 

[Roylion]

He shot at 2 Indigenous warriors before he got off the boat, wounding one. He definately killed people or ordered his crew to.

There is no evidence for your claim that Cook killed people when visiting the shores of Australia.

He shot dead someone when he first arrived

As I said, there is no evidence that any of the crew of the Endeavour - including Cook - killed anyone when they mapped the east coast of Australia in 1770.

snd killed 70% of the pop with small pox.

There is no evidence that Cook did this in Australia.

The diseases he helped spread killed 2/3rds of Australian Aboriginees.

That is not correct. Don't confuse 1770 with 1789.

Got an issue with any of that?

I have an issue with the false historical claims you are making about Cook's visit to the east coast of Australia in 1770. There is no evidence for the claims you made.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

He shot a Maori. Not an Indigenous Australian.

He shot an Indigenous person in the leg when he first arrived and r*ped and pillaged his around the pacific .

 

[Osho]

I thought Uncle Brendan (I think that is his name) provided good info and perspective. I haven't unserstood how he offended, can anyone explain it to me?

The only part that raised my eye a tad was the 250k years comment. I may be out of date on the latest research, that date is much further back in history than what I had assumed (70 - 80k years).

 

[skipper kelly]

The desire for politics to be out of sport - all of it - is itself a political stance: you are choosing not to say anything, regardless of the state of affairs.

Think of it like this: there are a lot of footy clubs that take in revenue from gambling. They in general try to avoid criticism of gambling in any press releases; if anything, they try to avoid saying anything, choosing to remain silent.

Victoria's politicians chose to remain silent as to the validity of the protests at the arms expo for fear of that stance being converted into funding for the opposition.

Silence is a statement of support for that which you choose not to try to stop.

Everything doesn't have to be analysed to the nth degree. My opinion is get rid of all the pre game gimmicks and get on with the sport. I don't care about gambling revenue in this thread. If it was another thread I would might say get rid of all the gambling ads off my tv.

Sorry if I am not being clear. My opinion is get rid off all the pre game gimmicks and get on with the sport. I have no care if this opinion is political, apolitical, silently political support of apolitical politics, or silent non support of outside non criticism.

I hope I am clear.

Peace

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

There is no evidence for your claim that



As I said, there is no evidence that any of the crew of the Endeavour - including Cook - killed anyone when they mapped the east coast of Australia in 1770.



There is no evidence that Cook did this in Australia.


That is not correct. Don't confuse 1770 with 1789.


I have an issue with the false historical claims you are making about Cook's visit to the east coast of Australia in 1770. There is no evidence for the claims you made.

Regardless of the years , he flogged natives , carved crucifixes into skin, his crew r*ped , he burnt villages. This was at various stops on all his voyages.
He even spoke of having to go to different places where they didn't know him as word of his 'vices' spread.
I think what you learned at school is a little outdated now.

 

[Toump Ass]

Watch a game of football these days and it's a non-stop stream of advertising. All the fences have Ronald MacDonald logos on them; that clown isn't even Australian, he's American. Bitcoin, Sportsbet, Korean car manufacturers, European insurance companies. Coles, Richard Branson, Google, Monster Energy Drink.

Sook about that you sooky campaigners.

 

[Bostonian]

No - if you’d have read the article they went to a local elder and checked the correct words to be used in the ceremony and if it was acceptable to use it for a non indigenous event.

Your posts are on the same level as Hanson now

I read the article you posted.

They didn't have one to use so had to go ask someone who knew about it.

If they knew all about it they'd have already knew what to say.

 

[Toump Ass]

"but but but some aboriginal talked for 30 seconds I'M ****ING OUTRAGED!!!! GET PAULINE HANSON ON THE PHONE!!!"
"GET ME OUT OF THIS COUNTRY!!!!"

 

[Gavin Excell]

Watch a game of football these days and it's a non-stop stream of advertising. All the fences have Ronald MacDonald logos on them; that clown isn't even Australian, he's American. Bitcoin, Sportsbet, Korean car manufacturers, European insurance companies. Coles, Richard Branson, Google, Monster Energy Drink.

Sook about that you sooky campaigners.

With radio coverage interrupted by ads featuring Frank Walker from Nationaaaaal Tilessss

 

[Bostonian]

Watch a game of football these days and it's a non-stop stream of advertising. All the fences have Ronald MacDonald logos on them; that clown isn't even Australian, he's American. Bitcoin, Sportsbet, Korean car manufacturers, European insurance companies. Coles, Richard Branson, Google, Monster Energy Drink.

Sook about that you sooky campaigners.

And the welcome to country is part of that corporate grift now.

 

[RedWhite4Ever]

Regardless of the years , he flogged natives , carved crucifixes into skin, his crew r*ped , he burnt villages. This was at various stops on all his voyages.
He even spoke of having to go to different places where they didn't know him as word of his 'vices' spread.
I think what you learned at school is a little outdated now.

This is just sheer rubbish. There is no evidence to suggest Captain Cook or any crew of the Endeavour did anything like this.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

This is just sheer rubbish. There is no evidence to suggest Captain Cook or any crew of the Endeavour did anything like this.

There is , that's why the Hawains killed and look at my posts above.

In Tonga

'The Discovery’s master, Thomas Edgar, kept a tally of these punishments and noted that in a two-week span, eight men were punished with 24-72 lashes apiece for stealing items such as a “tumbler and two wine glasses”.

Cook even punished his own men with the maximum 12 lashes for “neglect of duty” when thefts happened on their watch.

He also resorted to punishments which midshipman George Gilbert deemed “unbecoming of a European”, including:

cutting off their ears; fireing at them with small shot; or ball as they were swimming or paddling to the shore; and suffering the people (as he rowed after them) to beat them with the oars; and stick the boat hook into them; wherever he could hit them

Edgar described how one Tongan prisoner who received 72 lashes and then was dealt “a strange punishment” by

scoring both his Arms with a common Knife by one of our Seamen Longitudinally and transversly [sic], into the Bone.

 

[Demons09]

Why would I be upset?

I have not a drop of English in me. Couldn't care less what you say about him.

You seem to get the most upset of everyone.

I think they call it race baiting .

 

[schneebly111]

I thought Uncle Brendan (I think that is his name) provided good info and perspective. I haven't unserstood how he offended, can anyone explain it to me?

Because the next day Murdoch media decided to make it into an issue to rile up their bogan base and get them outraged and clicking on the article.

Then Tony Shaw opened his mouth - the guy who bragged he loved using racism language on the field. Guess the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Bogan media had their ‘hero’ who was ‘sick of wokeness’ so they keep pushing the story, and now Hanson has given her 0.000002 cents.

This is manufactured outrage to drive clicks and revenue

 

[threenewpadlocks]

A British colony in founded 1788 and all of its implications for the existing Indigenous population was, when they set off, intended for Botany Bay, precisely because that was the most important stop of Cook's expedition and members of Cook's expedition recommended it to the British as the location of where they should form a new colony largely due to the aftermath of losing the American colonies due to the American Revolution. One linked to the other. In terms of creating a British colony, Cook was clearly the most important single figure.

Going by some of the posts in this thread, people would have been fine if it Captain Cook was replaced with Governor Phillip, who was both head of the First Fleet expedition and the first Governer, because "Cook was just an explorer and had nothing to do with colonisiation", which is silly, because Phillip didn't make the decision to colonise, he was just attached to it as part of his job, unlike Cook's expedition. If you're going to name someone as the starting point, from an indigenous POV as to the colonisation process, of course it's clearly Cook. Without his expedition the British wouldn't have known that there was a Botany Bay in the first place to try to colonise (until they realised that Port Jackskon was a better harbour at the end of their trip just a bit north).

I hope the above wasn't political and is just a general retelling of Australian history, that, you know, I have read up on in the past because if I'm going to try to comment and understand the context of things like Welcome to Country (rather than just ignore or whatever and get on with my life, which is fine too), that it's my obligation to try and understand the context of history.

 

[burge13]

This is just sheer rubbish. There is no evidence to suggest Captain Cook or any crew of the Endeavour did anything like this.

AP's imagination on many topics is quite vast. He's on his 20 mins unsupervised laptop time for the day, just enjoy the entertainment

 

[Roylion]

Regardless of the years ,

You claimed these things happened on the east coast of Australia to the indigenous people in 1770. They didn't.

I think what you learned at school is a little outdated now.

You don't know what I learnt at school. Nor do you know what I teach.

 

[Gethelred]

Everything doesn't have to be analysed to the nth degree. My opinion is get rid of all the pre game gimmicks and get on with the sport. I don't care about gambling revenue in this thread. If it was another thread I would might say get rid of all the gambling ads off my tv.

Sorry if I am not being clear. My opinion is get rid off all the pre game gimmicks and get on with the sport. I have no care if this opinion is political, apolitical, silently political support of apolitical politics, or silent non support of outside non criticism.

I hope I am clear.

Peace

I understand completely the desire to just get on with it. But to strip sport of politics would require you to stop playing it, because it - like all activites that involve more than one person - is inherently political.