Unsolved The Zodiac Killer

[BonzaRam]

I loved the movie and ALA as the suspect, but Ross Sullivan is my man

Yeah if I went off the movie then Leigh would be my main suspect but the time the movie was released (2007) Leigh was still the No1 suspect, it wasn't until 2010 when he was cleared.

I lean towards Sullivan also but the jury still out on whether the Cheri-Jo Bates case is linked. The cyphers can reveal a few names so which one it is is anyone's guess.

 

[Jamurp]

Slightly off topic, but the scene in 'Zodiac' where ALA is interviewed at his work place is an all time great. Such an amazing film.

"I am not the Zodiac, and If I was, I certainly wouldn't tell you".

Such a great film, but based on Robert Graysmiths book who is heavily swayed towards ALA being the main suspect, and has been known to twist facts that further point in his direction, unfortunately as likely a suspect he is, the physical evidence just doesn't add up to him being the Zodiac.

 

[johnymac1]

Did Ted Kacynski, try and insert himself into the Zodiac murders by writing to the Media?
Or did Ted and the Zodiac Know each other?

Kaczynski worked in northern California at the time of the Zodiac murders and, like the Zodiac, had an interest in cryptography and was a prolific writer.

I was comparing a letter written by Ted to a letter written by the Zodiac. some of the language was similar. although written in different eras. Teds letter was to his brother. The Zodiacs letter was directed to the newspapers. Individual letters were similar between the two documents. X's, K's B's and T's were almost the same in both. I looked at the way both men wrote the word THE, both cases they wrote "The" with the h under the T.
Slanting of the writing was similar too. with b's u's and k's formed the same way.

At one point the Zodiac sends a letter to the SF Chronical detailing a bomb design. So many similarities between the two men. But Iam pretty sure Kacynski has been ruled out as a Zodiac suspect.

 

[johnymac1]

The Zodiac Z13 cipher is an interesting puzzle. Not enough symbols to work out what kind of cipher it was.
In this cipher the Zodiac writes " My Name is-" . More than likely it says nothing, or possibly tells the police where to go.

A few researchers have not bothered to work it out, but to fit known names into the thirteen symbols. A researcher suggests it says A. Leigh Allen. (13 symbols). But the thirteen symbols must at least contain two words, a first name and surname. One of the symbols could even be a space. Oddly in his first cipher, the Zodiac didn't use his trademark gun sight symbol. In the Z13 cipher he includes it in the fourth position.

Interestingly the Unabomber had a crazy trade mark symbol too. It was like an upturned peace symbol.

Z13 Cipher-

 

[CD Xbow]

I haven't read anything about this case for years and I was surprised to see a few new candidates. I have a confession to make. I got it in my head many years ago that the codes/letters/radians etc was mainly noise. Sure it was to taunt and humiliate the authorities, make himself a celebrity, manifest control etc but it was also a distraction.

The one I have been most impressed with is Louis Myers, whom most seem to dismiss, probably because of the source of the information. He's the only person whose confessed to it twice! It's covered in this US ABC article from 2014.

I-Team: Friend confesses to being The Zodiac Killer | ABC7 San Francisco | abc7news.com

Here's Randy himself and after watching it you may understand folks scepticism, I'd argue the opposite. He's not smart enough to make this stuff up.


This one talks a bit more about Louis as the ZK including the look for teen clue.


There seem to be a couple of photos of Louis in the public domain and one of those look like it's from a line up. Otherwise there seems to be nothing about Louis except from Randy, though most of the claims should be able to be verified. Evidence suggesting he is ZK.

Twice in his life confessed to friends.
Lived in the area
Went to school with 2 victims, knew a third through work
Was in the military in Germany in the years when the murders/letters stopped
Access to military boot like alleged ZK foot print - it's pretty lame 'clue', I gotta say.
The atypical case, the Taxi driver he explains as a robbery.
Identifies the cross as the celtic cross - something I thought years ago rather than it being a cross hairs and to me the celtic cross is stylistically linked to some of the rune like elements in his texts
The 'look for teen' clue discussed in video above
Hand writing - see below


There is an article in the Atlantic about all the folks claiming to know who the Zodiac Killer is. This is what it says about Louis-

Evidence for: Kenney came forward earlier this year and said that, in 2001, Myers told him on his deathbed that he was the Zodiac Killer. He also "begged" Kenney to write a book about it. Myers lived near some of the murders and may have gone to high school with two of the victims and worked with another victim. Another friend of Myers' said he confessed to him in 1976 that he was the killer, but the friend thought Myers was joking. He's not so sure about that now!

Evidence against: Kenney said he told the San Francisco police about Myers, but they wanted some kind of evidence and Kenney doesn't have it. Myers does not match the description of the killer, and police don't think a teenager -- which Myers was at the time of the murders -- could have done it.

A brief summary of the things against-
1. Circumstantial evidence mainly but we also have confessions twice in his lifetime, separated by decades. The circumstantial evidence is probably as good as for Allen and people were dead sure he was ZK for a while

2. Randy is not seen as a reliable witness, in short people think he's a grifter BUT Louis is said to have told another friend, Bob Robitaille in 1976. I can't find any direct evidence of this story. Randy has a website promoting the upcoming book, which was last published to in 2022. Randy may have fallen off his perch, been shown to be a con or simply slow to finish his book. There is a page comparing handwriting Handwriting - Zodiac Killer's Advocate which looks to my inexpert eye, very similar.

3. Too young to have done it - this one we know is rubbish, serial killers like this often start in late teens.

4. Doesn't fit the description - issues of age and description. I don't think these are insurmountable. IIRC the ZK taunted police at one stage suggesting he appeared different while 'working'. Glasses, a wig and padded clothes can make people look very different. I couldn't find any information about Louis size, he needs to be in the five 8 to 10 range IIRC. The lower half of his face is actually good match for the later identikit picture. Note I misspelt his name in the captions.



I'll do a bit more graphic work and see where we end up. If any one has additional info, I'd be very interested to see it.
I hope someone has taken Randy's claims about Louis seriously because I reckon there is a good chance he was the ZK. After all he told us, twice and nobody listened.

 

[johnymac1]

I haven't read anything about this case for years and I was surprised to see a few new candidates. I have a confession to make. I got it in my head many years ago that the codes/letters/radians etc was mainly noise. Sure it was to taunt and humiliate the authorities, make himself a celebrity, manifest control etc but it was also a distraction.

The one I have been most impressed with is Louis Myers, whom most seem to dismiss, probably because of the source of the information. He's the only person whose confessed to it twice! It's covered in this US ABC article from 2014.

I-Team: Friend confesses to being The Zodiac Killer | ABC7 San Francisco | abc7news.com

Here's Randy himself and after watching it you may understand folks scepticism, I'd argue the opposite. He's not smart enough to make this stuff up.


This one talks a bit more about Louis as the ZK including the look for teen clue.


There seem to be a couple of photos of Louis in the public domain and one of those look like it's from a line up. Otherwise there seems to be nothing about Louis except from Randy, though most of the claims should be able to be verified. Evidence suggesting he is ZK.

Twice in his life confessed to friends.
Lived in the area
Went to school with 2 victims, knew a third through work
Was in the military in Germany in the years when the murders/letters stopped
Access to military boot like alleged ZK foot print - it's pretty lame 'clue', I gotta say.
The atypical case, the Taxi driver he explains as a robbery.
Identifies the cross as the celtic cross - something I thought years ago rather than it being a cross hairs and to me the celtic cross is stylistically linked to some of the rune like elements in his texts
The 'look for teen' clue discussed in video above
Hand writing - see below


There is an article in the Atlantic about all the folks claiming to know who the Zodiac Killer is. This is what it says about Louis-

Evidence for: Kenney came forward earlier this year and said that, in 2001, Myers told him on his deathbed that he was the Zodiac Killer. He also "begged" Kenney to write a book about it. Myers lived near some of the murders and may have gone to high school with two of the victims and worked with another victim. Another friend of Myers' said he confessed to him in 1976 that he was the killer, but the friend thought Myers was joking. He's not so sure about that now!

Evidence against: Kenney said he told the San Francisco police about Myers, but they wanted some kind of evidence and Kenney doesn't have it. Myers does not match the description of the killer, and police don't think a teenager -- which Myers was at the time of the murders -- could have done it.

A brief summary of the things against-
1. Circumstantial evidence mainly but we also have confessions twice in his lifetime, separated by decades. The circumstantial evidence is probably as good as for Allen and people were dead sure he was ZK for a while

2. Randy is not seen as a reliable witness, in short people think he's a grifter BUT Louis is said to have told another friend, Bob Robitaille in 1976. I can't find any direct evidence of this story. Randy has a website promoting the upcoming book, which was last published to in 2022. Randy may have fallen off his perch, been shown to be a con or simply slow to finish his book. There is a page comparing handwriting Handwriting - Zodiac Killer's Advocate which looks to my inexpert eye, very similar.

3. Too young to have done it - this one we know is rubbish, serial killers like this often start in late teens.

4. Doesn't fit the description - issues of age and description. I don't think these are insurmountable. IIRC the ZK taunted police at one stage suggesting he appeared different while 'working'. Glasses, a wig and padded clothes can make people look very different. I couldn't find any information about Louis size, he needs to be in the five 8 to 10 range IIRC. The lower half of his face is actually good match for the later identikit picture. Note I misspelt his name in the captions.

View attachment 1722649

I'll do a bit more graphic work and see where we end up. If any one has additional info, I'd be very interested to see it.
I hope someone has taken Randy's claims about Louis seriously because I reckon there is a good chance he was the ZK. After all he told us, twice and nobody listened.

Some of the spelling mistake's in the letters are childlike.
Zodiac spelled Switches as swiches and Christmas as Christmass
Also the phrase "This is the Zodiac Speaking," sounds a bit childish

Meyers was 17 at the time

 

[CD Xbow]

Some of the spelling mistake's in the letters are childlike.
Zodiac spelled Switches as swiches and Christmas as Christmass
Also the phrase "This is the Zodiac Speaking," sounds a bit childish

Meyers was 17 at the time

Yeah, fits. For some reason, the story has the ring of truth to it. It's so stupid. Louis confessed twice, first in 1976 and wasn't believed, then decades later confessed to Randy who then is not regarded as a reliable witness. It should be pretty easy for the authorities to check the details of much of Randy's story, perhaps they have already and it's been found wanting. Reframe the story as if it were a death bed confession from Louis to a priest and people would take it more seriously.

 

[johnymac1]

Yeah, fits. For some reason, the story has the ring of truth to it. It's so stupid. Louis confessed twice, first in 1976 and wasn't believed, then decades later confessed to Randy who then is not regarded as a reliable witness. It should be pretty easy for the authorities to check the details of much of Randy's story, perhaps they have already and it's been found wanting. Reframe the story as if it were a death bed confession from Louis to a priest and people would take it more seriously.

I guess when Meyers was telling his little yarn, he forgot to tell us how to solve his Ciphers.
only the real Zodiac would know what they say

 

[Interceptor]

Some of the spelling mistake's in the letters are childlike.
Zodiac spelled Switches as swiches and Christmas as Christmass
Also the phrase "This is the Zodiac Speaking," sounds a bit childish

Meyers was 17 at the time

Ah the irony of someone pointing this out and making a primary school level error themselves.

 

[johnymac1]

so sorry, I'll take more care next time.

Ah the irony of someone pointing this out and making a primary school level error themselves

 

[CD Xbow]

I guess when Meyers was telling his little yarn, he forgot to tell us how to solve his Ciphers.
only the real Zodiac would know what they say

Perhaps some of them are just gibberish and that's the reason they can't be solved.

 

[CD Xbow]

I've taken the 2 pictures I could find of Louis, old Louis (in a line up) and young Louis and halved them up against the 2nd identikit picture. The source images are in the first row and the next 2 rows are the joined halves. I did lighten and deshadow the young Louis image as well as provide a haircut (somtimes). I scaled them to best fit, but didn't change there shape. It's pretty quick and dirty but the faces appear to be pretty symmetrical when put together.

 

[Awakening]

I don’t really know much about this case. I’ve heard of the case and had assumed it was long solved. It’s come up on a podcast and no it hasn’t been solved.

Could the zodiac killer still be alive?

 

[Awakening]

Some of the spelling mistake's in the letters are childlike.
Zodiac spelled Switches as swiches and Christmas as Christmass
Also the phrase "This is the Zodiac Speaking," sounds a bit childish

Meyers was 17 at the time

It seems the zodiac killer was smart - he’s gotten away with it - but made these spelling errors.

Possibly dyslexic? Young? Deaf or hard of hearing? English not his first language?

 

[Kram]

It seems the zodiac killer was smart - he’s gotten away with it - but made these spelling errors.

Possibly dyslexic? Young? Deaf or hard of hearing? English not his first language?

Not sure about his intelligence level. Getting away with it was more likely more that he had a lot of luck, the most notable bit of it was when the original alert to the cops was that it was a black offender so they just drove past him before it was corrected.

I haven't looked at the case for years but iirc if he is still alive he would be very old, at least well into his 80s.

 

[johnymac1]

A three part series has just landed on Netflix

It focuses on the Seawater family, who was in contact with Arthur Leigh Allen over many years.
The oldest son maintains the kids were drugged then assaulted by Allen. He also stated Allen made a confession.
In the series, the sibling maintain they were taken to the various murder sites before the Zodiac killings.

 

[treeman]

A three part series has just landed on Netflix

It focuses on the Seawater family, who was in contact with Arthur Leigh Allen over many years.
The oldest son maintains the kids were drugged then assaulted by Allen. He also stated Allen made a confession.
In the series, the sibling maintain they were taken to the various murder sites before the Zodiac killings.

Wasn't Arthur ruled out?

I agree he always seemed like a good suspect.

Sent from my SM-T220 using Tapatalk

 

[johnymac1]

Wasn't Arthur ruled out?

I agree he always seemed like a good suspect.

Sent from my SM-T220 using Tapatalk

I think early handwriting analysis ruled him out.
But there is a lot of things that rules him in

The police have a knife. That the Seawater kids got hold of.
I think it's being tested right now. The knife passed a presumptive test for blood.
They also have huge collection of letters written between the mom and Allen.

See where the ongoing investigation leads.

 

[Glacier]

Binged that Netflix series last night
Some really dark stuff in there

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Binged that Netflix series last night
Some really dark stuff in there

As did I.

Not sure if its just a coincidence or deliberate, but befriending a family with the name Seawater and choosing crime scenes where you can see water seems to fit the mind of someone who likes cryptic games as the Zodiac obviously does.

Then in regards to ALA's video to the Mother, David says he's not sure if there was something they missed in it. Theres literally a desk lamp occupying half the frame set up to look like a Z.

 

[royboys4eva]

Hard to imagine it's not ALA. The handwriting stuff is very flimsy defence for it can't be him. He was clearly very clever and I found it disturbing on the Netflix series that he drugged those young children.

The Police thought it was ALA. The women who did the interview with him felt strongly he was the Zodiac Killer.

He looked like a lonely man who had two personalities and was constantly switching between those personalities and needs.

Aside from this family coming forward with such strong evidence, there is of course the fact that when ALA was instituted for 4 years the Zodiac letters completely stopped. Not long after he was released a letter was sent.

To my thinking ALA is the Zodiac.

 

[johnymac1]

ALA is how I see MR Cruel being like-

The fascination with weapons. Handguns and Knives.
Military background competent with knots etc. Not to mention the sailing interest.
Grooming young families. befriending their mothers.
The stalking aspect. The Thrill kill etc.
Working in an area where he is in contact with potential victims. Being a school teacher.

 

[GreyCrow]

I have only watched the 1st episode - baseball is on

But a few things stood out - mostly good and bad

I have always felt Graysmith is a self seeking person who has focused on one individual to the exclusion of others - not that he is the lone one doing this. When I watch a Graysmith production I tend to zone out the story

But this one had some bones on his story. While I think there are some critical issues to the story still I did take pause at a few things

1. Again like a recent cold case breakthrough here we find a driver with a knife in his car covered in blood and allowed to leave the area

2. His actions to the family - only hinted at in this 1st episode - are very disturbing

3. The collection of the little things builds a powerful narrative

I dont find the lack of DNA to be concerning as homicide methods werent geared towards preserving or protecting DNA

But the handwriting issue stops me

While I think ALA is a disturbing person and a good strong fit - either he didnt commit as many as he said or the police have lumped together different killings and attributed them to him ie the physical description differences

Ironically Bryan Hartnell fits the identikit more than ALA

 

[Soldier Of Misfortune]

some will suggest I'm drawing a long bow, and some might suggest I've been drinking a Long Bow, but you will never unsee this image:

 

[johnymac1]

As ALA stated in one of his videos. That police hadn't returned his stuff.
Hopefully it's in storage somewhere and police can do a closer examination for dna
He also stated that he is not Zodiac, also frustrated he was hounded for 22 yrs