gaskin
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On prac at the moment and done some marking today. I now understand how Teachers can get so frustrated when marking.
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Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher
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- #602
This seems to be the way with teachers - the older ones learn to be sneaky and palm off the students they don't want to deal with. A few teacher friends and acquaintances laugh about the tactics they use to con others into making their life easier. Sounds toxic to me.
At some schools it seems the head sorts through the students and give the difficult ones to the experienced teachers, grinding them down year by year.
At my school the teachers with the best behaviour management (and usually the best all round at teaching) get the rough kids and the other teachers get the cushy academic and upper school classes. It is unfair and the amount of extra work for the teachers with the pointy end classes is huge. I have the lowest Year 7 class in the school for Maths and I just feel like I am getting more and more snowed under. The amount of change happening to how we are assessing isn't helping either.
- Apr 30, 2016
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I've doing my probation at the moment. Am I able to have any say in my panel?
There is the principal, the mentor and the third has to be a senior teacher.
But, the senior teacher seems to hate me. Like I've done something in a past life.
I was just wondering if I'm allowed to ask for someone else? Or to I just grin and bare it, and possibly have to deal with a situation later down the track?
There is the principal, the mentor and the third has to be a senior teacher.
But, the senior teacher seems to hate me. Like I've done something in a past life.
I was just wondering if I'm allowed to ask for someone else? Or to I just grin and bare it, and possibly have to deal with a situation later down the track?
What's probation exactly?
Sounds like the equivalent in the Victorian system would be your VIT registration panel. If that's the case, I don't think it's worth worrying about it.
If you've done a good job, just go in there and demonstrate that. The mentor and AP will have already made up their mind about you.
Sam_Malone
Norm Smith Medallist
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- #606
What seems to be causing your area of frustration?
gaskin
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It was mainly that most students could give a definition of a term but couldn't identify an example of it.
- Oct 3, 2008
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Kids are becoming more and more complex thus the job more challenging. Dealing with kids all day must drive some teachers insane. If my kids/nephews/nieces spoke to teachers/adults the way some kids do now days I would beat the shit out of them. Then again they just wouldn't do it.
Sam_Malone
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- #609
Bit of a dilemma. What would you do?
I was teaching year 8 Global Studies about World War 2 and were talking and investigating Australian Immigration and migration.
So, we have a few students with Special Needs (behaviour, not academic) and the SSO (Student Support Officer) in my room was helping a student today. I over heard her talk to the student and heard her give the student wrong advice and incorrect answer.
We were specifically taking about a period of time (1940-1950's) but she had the student answer the question from a 1870's perspective. I guess she answered the question but it was the wrong period. It wasn't an assessment task.
Should I talk to the SSO and explain what I wanted, should I talk to the student and have them re do the question or just mark her wrong?
I like the SSO but don't like them showing their own initiative to have the students answer how they think.
I was teaching year 8 Global Studies about World War 2 and were talking and investigating Australian Immigration and migration.
So, we have a few students with Special Needs (behaviour, not academic) and the SSO (Student Support Officer) in my room was helping a student today. I over heard her talk to the student and heard her give the student wrong advice and incorrect answer.
We were specifically taking about a period of time (1940-1950's) but she had the student answer the question from a 1870's perspective. I guess she answered the question but it was the wrong period. It wasn't an assessment task.
Should I talk to the SSO and explain what I wanted, should I talk to the student and have them re do the question or just mark her wrong?
I like the SSO but don't like them showing their own initiative to have the students answer how they think.
Student teacher here, so take my advice with a grain of salt obviously.
But I'd have a word to the SSO. Not forceful or anything, not attacking. Just a casual word saying "I overheard you working with _________ today. Just in case you weren't sure, we're focusing on this from a 1940-1950s perspective, so we're trying to teach the kids in this manner."
It might be one of those chats where its hard to not come off sounding condescending, and she will probably know it too, but as the teacher it's certainly the conversation you're allowed to (and probably should) have.
Sam_Malone
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- #611
You're not a student teacher at all. You are more than that. You are a pre-service teacher. You are like us, we just have a bit more experience with teaching.
I don't really know this SSO, she was re-assigned to my class as her regular classroom duty was on camp or an excursion but I don't really know her. That was my concern, sounding condersending. I really like and appreciate the support they give as any extra hands are a massive help.
I will have a sit down with her and explain my perspective and reason I wanted to reach but when I was talking about WAP and WW2 and stuff like that from that period, I found it hard to not pick up on that time frame.
Thanks for the response
Sam_Malone
Was it a good outcome for the student?
What are you assessing them on? Can you apply the same criteria to the writing they've done?
Is it fair to fail this student/make the student retake the assessment because he/she was told to do the wrong thing?
I'd be looking for the positives in the student's work, grading them on it, and making sure that my instruction was very clear to both the students in and SSO in future classes.
Was it a good outcome for the student?
What are you assessing them on? Can you apply the same criteria to the writing they've done?
Is it fair to fail this student/make the student retake the assessment because he/she was told to do the wrong thing?
I'd be looking for the positives in the student's work, grading them on it, and making sure that my instruction was very clear to both the students in and SSO in future classes.
Sam_Malone
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- #613
Yes, the outcome was very good for the student. She actually hasn't handed up very much work at all, so getting this was very good and pleasing. This student has truancy issues coming out of her wazoo but she did seems to be trying this week.
Since it was a formative assessment piece and since she hasn't done much work; that's why the SSO was working with her, it's not like I'm going to fail her on one bit of work. I hope she keep this new and improved work ethic up but if she doesn't she will dail all by herself by never doing any work in the first place but I will try and discuss what I was looking for with her when we get to the summative assessment.
Sam_Malone
Norm Smith Medallist
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- #614
We have been working on this project for 4 weeks already (we have 1 50 minute lesson a week), so I guess I just assumed they all knew what my instructions were by now.
Never assume that a funded student with absentee issues knows what instruction was given 4 weeks ago.
And never assume that an SSO knows what you're doing. Was he/she there for each of the 4 weeks? What was his/her involvement like in the class at those times if he/she was? If he/she wasn't working closely one-on-one (with the funded, but absent student) in those previous weeks, he/she probably wasn't paying a great deal of attention.
What I'm suggesting is, rather than having a go at this SSO, and every subsequent SSO --- who likely won't give a shit about your assessments, can you change your practices so that something similar won't happen in the future?
I hate playing the waiting game to hear back and get an interview for a school closer to home (I'm on an ongoing contract anyway so no big deal). Applied for a job last Sunday (21st August) and its been 5 working days. How long do most people wait? Mates reckon I should give it a week.
When I was orginally applying years ago you would hear back in a week if you scored an interview.
When I was orginally applying years ago you would hear back in a week if you scored an interview.
As a pre-service teacher who has just started applying for jobs, I'm pretty interested in this - the overall wait and turnaround period from applying to hearing back either way.
I naturally assumed it would be a while as they sort through the applications, before settling on who they want to interview. A couple of weeks at least was my guess?
I think it'd be about a week from closing date until interviews are organised.
The issue is, you've got 120+ applicants for many jobs these days. Contacting them all isn't possible.
Particularly if you've applied for a Primary Generalist role, there could easily be 150 applicants.
Yep. I am giving it until next week to see if I was successful for an interview. That would be 2 weeks
Got the automated email saying I was unsuccessful (even thought it took a week and 2 days for them to read and interview).. I looked up their names and saw the majority of the successful applicants came from the Principals old school. Slightly disheartened. More because I didn't even get a look in with an interview.
Sam_Malone
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- #621
Nepotism is very common in education. Get used to it now.
I am use to it. Im lucky enough to be ongoing at my current school, just feel for those who are on a contract or new in the system and looking for employment.
Whaturest
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My uncle was a teacher all his life and he always said that it was the most adorable job for him. He felt like he helps people to become better and smarter.
I think every career has it positive and negative factors, but if you like this you'll be able to perform your best, anyway the most important thing is to love what you do, and to do what you love!
I think every career has it positive and negative factors, but if you like this you'll be able to perform your best, anyway the most important thing is to love what you do, and to do what you love!
gaskin
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Finished my prac today. Was a great experience in one of the top schools in Perth that I didn't think I would ever get.
Yeah, but what's that mean really?
A "merit" based appointment comes from a written application, and an interview panel.
When you're talking about having > 20, and often > 100 people applying for any particular job, awarding a "merit" based appointment would rarely see you hiring the best teacher. Writing an application and interview skills are not useful skills within the classroom.
With a "nepotistic" appointment, you're getting a known quantity. You know what's in store.
The teachers union have created a system whereby once a teacher is ongoing, they can operate at a disgustingly low standard and continue to get a pay rise in alignment with a high performing teacher of the same experience level. There is virtually no risk for that teacher losing their job as schools need to jump through YEARS worth of hoops to remove a poor performing teacher - and they have to be incredibly poor.
Therefore, hiring the "best applicant" who happens to be a poor performing teacher can be devastating for a school as they could be stuck with them for decades, at the expense of hiring cheaper and more capable teachers.
