Secondary Thinking about becoming a teacher

[Sam_Malone]

Yeah, but what's that mean really?

A "merit" based appointment comes from a written application, and an interview panel.

When you're talking about having > 20, and often > 100 people applying for any particular job, awarding a "merit" based appointment would rarely see you hiring the best teacher. Writing an application and interview skills are not useful skills within the classroom.

With a "nepotistic" appointment, you're getting a known quantity. You know what's in store.

The teachers union have created a system whereby once a teacher is ongoing, they can operate at a disgustingly low standard and continue to get a pay rise in alignment with a high performing teacher of the same experience level. There is virtually no risk for that teacher losing their job as schools need to jump through YEARS worth of hoops to remove a poor performing teacher - and they have to be incredibly poor.

Therefore, hiring the "best applicant" who happens to be a poor performing teacher can be devastating for a school as they could be stuck with them for decades, at the expense of hiring cheaper and more capable teachers.

Are you saying it doesn't happen?

 

[superfraser]

Are you saying it doesn't happen?

No, I'm explaining why it happens.

But, I think you've got the motivation confused, rather than the motivation being to hire "friends and family", I think the motivation is hiring people who are "known" so as you know what you're getting -- avoiding hiring an absolute spud, who happens to interview well, that you can never get rid of.

 

[Sam_Malone]

No, I'm explaining why it happens.

But, I think you've got the motivation confused, rather than the motivation being to hire "friends and family", I think the motivation is hiring people who are "known" so as you know what you're getting -- avoiding hiring an absolute spud, who happens to interview well, that you can never get rid of.

Of course that's the the case. They write the 'job specs' for that candidate.

Nepotism may not have been the correct word but close enough.

 

[superfraser]

Of course that's the the case. They write the 'job specs' for that candidate.

Nepotism may not have been the correct word but close enough.

Ok, so what's your issue with that?

I'd say the way most teachers get contract work is through taking CRT work with a school first, this is like an audition, and it tells you far more about a teacher's capacity than an interview can.

 

[Sam_Malone]

Ok, so what's your issue with that?

I'd say the way most teachers get contract work is through taking CRT work with a school first, this is like an audition, and it tells you far more about a teacher's capacity than an interview can.

The best person should get the 'permanent' job. Not the best friend oif the school.

 

[superfraser]

The best person should get the 'permanent' job. Not the best friend oif the school.

Ok, but how do you want to measure their effectiveness (who "the best person" is)? Via application and interview? Or via their work in the classroom?

 

[Deliverance]

Its also very common for people to bring mates with them from other schools. Or people within schools to give responsibility positions to their mates, even when all candidates are known quantities.
Most principals wouldn't have a clue what the majority if their teachers do in the classroom anyway.

 

[Sam_Malone]

Ok, but how do you want to measure their effectiveness (who "the best person" is)? Via application and interview? Or via their work in the classroom?

You would use NAPLAN results, Pat M, R and S testing and data to look at their effectiveness over a number of years.

First and second year teachers shouldn't be eligible for permanent jobs. They should pay their dues.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

You would use NAPLAN results, Pat M, R and S testing and data to look at their effectiveness over a number of years.

First and second year teachers shouldn't be eligible for permanent jobs. They should pay their dues.

Naplan... admittedly I'm primary where 3s and 5s do it, but I've never, ever used Naplan data for anything. It's a load of horse shit.

 

[Sam_Malone]

Naplan... admittedly I'm primary where 3s and 5s do it, but I've never, ever used Naplan data for anything. It's a load of horse shit.

Agree but it's a measurement tool they could use

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Agree but it's a measurement tool they could use

I guess they could. It would be a highly ineffectual one though.

 

[superfraser]

You would use NAPLAN results, Pat M, R and S testing and data to look at their effectiveness over a number of years.

First and second year teachers shouldn't be eligible for permanent jobs. They should pay their dues.

How do you want to use that data?

Are we focusing on level of achievement, comparison of achievement since the last test cycle, comparison against internal cohort, comparison against State/National levels, do you consider students factors such as SFO, LBOTE, Gender, comparisons of similar schools?

 

[wadistance]

I would strongly recommend using a recruitment agency like smart or hays et al. As a teacher with zero experience last year, I went from an interview with smart, to a term of LSL cover, to the last 2 years FT temp, and have now been contacted by the principal of the first school for a FT permanent job next year. Let the agencies do the hard work for you - that's what they are there for

 

[BRAB]

Does anybody know if the dip ed courses will finally be phased out after 2017?

 

[Deliverance]

I would strongly recommend using a recruitment agency like smart or hays et al. As a teacher with zero experience last year, I went from an interview with smart, to a term of LSL cover, to the last 2 years FT temp, and have now been contacted by the principal of the first school for a FT permanent job next year. Let the agencies do the hard work for you - that's what they are there for

First time I've ever heard anyone say a good word about agencies.
Most of them are bottom feeders sucking money out of the school system.
Although admittedly, I've only ever used overseas agencies.

 

[wadistance]

First time I've ever heard anyone say a good word about agencies.
Most of them are bottom feeders sucking money out of the school system.
Although admittedly, I've only ever used overseas agencies.

I'm not priivy to how they operate, but they got me a job pretty easily which got me my experience. Can't fault that

 

[BattleMoose]

So thinking about becoming a teacher and have a few questions I am hoping some of you will be willing to help with.

I am currently employed as a scientist, have a science PhD and published science papers, with a bsc in mechanical engineering. I have been tutoring calculus classes at university over the past 5 years, leading classes with up to 20 students, must have done about 200 of such classes at this point. It is by far the most enjoyable and rewarding thing I have ever been paid money to do.

At this point I am extremely comfortable leading a class of 18 year olds and have had very good feedback from them, in regards to teaching. I am very aware that high school teenagers will be a very different kettle of fish than the people who make it into the classes I have been teaching up till now. But understandably I have no idea how different and the like.

I would be interested in primarily teaching science and maths, high school and male if that matters.

The first question is about job prospects. Would my science credentials be valued from an employers perspective, and how much? I appreciate jobs at the "nice" schools are pretty much out reality for a graduate teacher but what is realistically available? Are there serious prospects of being able to find a job in Melbourne, for some definition of "in Melbourne"?.

The second questions is what would be the most appropriate degree in order to get qualified. I have been trawling through the offerings form the universities but still don't really have a feeling for the differences. My biggest issue would be time, I thought there were 1 year degrees that could qualify me to teach but they don't seem to be offered by Melbourne Uni or Monash? Otherwise the best seems to be a masters in teaching that can be as short as 1.5 years? If I did manage to do a 1 year degree would that sabotage my chances of getting a job? First prize would be a 1 year degree that could get me a job, do they exist? What would be recommended?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hard Ball Get]

So thinking about becoming a teacher and have a few questions I am hoping some of you will be willing to help with.

I am currently employed as a scientist, have a science PhD and published science papers, with a bsc in mechanical engineering. I have been tutoring calculus classes at university over the past 5 years, leading classes with up to 20 students, must have done about 200 of such classes at this point. It is by far the most enjoyable and rewarding thing I have ever been paid money to do.

At this point I am extremely comfortable leading a class of 18 year olds and have had very good feedback from them, in regards to teaching. I am very aware that high school teenagers will be a very different kettle of fish than the people who make it into the classes I have been teaching up till now. But understandably I have no idea how different and the like.

I would be interested in primarily teaching science and maths, high school and male if that matters.

The first question is about job prospects. Would my science credentials be valued from an employers perspective, and how much? I appreciate jobs at the "nice" schools are pretty much out reality for a graduate teacher but what is realistically available? Are there serious prospects of being able to find a job in Melbourne, for some definition of "in Melbourne"?.

The second questions is what would be the most appropriate degree in order to get qualified. I have been trawling through the offerings form the universities but still don't really have a feeling for the differences. My biggest issue would be time, I thought there were 1 year degrees that could qualify me to teach but they don't seem to be offered by Melbourne Uni or Monash? Otherwise the best seems to be a masters in teaching that can be as short as 1.5 years? If I did manage to do a 1 year degree would that sabotage my chances of getting a job? First prize would be a 1 year degree that could get me a job, do they exist? What would be recommended?

Thanks in advance!

There's a real push for science in primary schools at the moment. Unfortunately there aren't many that have specialist science teachers.

A generalist teacher that excels in science might be considered highly employable at some primary schools though.

 

[wadistance]

So thinking about becoming a teacher and have a few questions I am hoping some of you will be willing to help with.

I am currently employed as a scientist, have a science PhD and published science papers, with a bsc in mechanical engineering. I have been tutoring calculus classes at university over the past 5 years, leading classes with up to 20 students, must have done about 200 of such classes at this point. It is by far the most enjoyable and rewarding thing I have ever been paid money to do.

At this point I am extremely comfortable leading a class of 18 year olds and have had very good feedback from them, in regards to teaching. I am very aware that high school teenagers will be a very different kettle of fish than the people who make it into the classes I have been teaching up till now. But understandably I have no idea how different and the like.

I would be interested in primarily teaching science and maths, high school and male if that matters.

The first question is about job prospects. Would my science credentials be valued from an employers perspective, and how much? I appreciate jobs at the "nice" schools are pretty much out reality for a graduate teacher but what is realistically available? Are there serious prospects of being able to find a job in Melbourne, for some definition of "in Melbourne"?.

The second questions is what would be the most appropriate degree in order to get qualified. I have been trawling through the offerings form the universities but still don't really have a feeling for the differences. My biggest issue would be time, I thought there were 1 year degrees that could qualify me to teach but they don't seem to be offered by Melbourne Uni or Monash? Otherwise the best seems to be a masters in teaching that can be as short as 1.5 years? If I did manage to do a 1 year degree would that sabotage my chances of getting a job? First prize would be a 1 year degree that could get me a job, do they exist? What would be recommended?

Thanks in advance!

Not many 1.5 year degrees mean much now - you really need to do the 2 years. I did my 2 year masters online at UNE, which meant I could work FT during the day and do my study at night. STEM teachers are in super demand at the moment, and having a teacher with a PHD looks very very good for a school - lots of potential for progression to Head of Department roles there. Don't underestimate how much the elite private schools look at your background to see what you can do for the school - I know people that cant teach for shit, but because they've represented Australia in their chosen sport they were a shoe-in for Phys Ed jobs

 

[bUCKET__]

At this point I am extremely comfortable leading a class of 18 year olds and have had very good feedback from them, in regards to teaching. I am very aware that high school teenagers will be a very different kettle of fish than the people who make it into the classes I have been teaching up till now. But understandably I have no idea how different and the like.

It's great you've already got a sense of how importance this is. When it comes down to, the core business of schooling teaching is working with kids. People can be smart af and shitty teachers, and relatively poor content knowledge doesn't stop some people from being awesome at the job. Gotta figure out if working with kids is for you.

Best thing you can do is get a working with children check, and offer to volunteer with nearby schools in activities excursions etc. Regardless of preconceived ideas of whether they're 'nice' or not Lots of casual work in holiday programs where some interesting science pracs would be welcomed too. However you do it, the hands-on experience working with children is what'll sell ya or help you reconsider.

The degrees are longer because a large percentage of people report being unprepared to start after just one year. A large majority of grads leave the profession within their first 5 years. So unis try to squeeze in as much practical experience as they can, amidst all of the pseudo-scientific eduwank theory. There's still masters courses out there with an 'optional' thesis component, which makes them equiv of a year-long grad dip (think Latrobe offers that). If you're a smart person and give a shit about the job, you'll find a job.

 

[pjcrows]

How good are the holidays

 

[Man of Men]

Not many 1.5 year degrees mean much now - you really need to do the 2 years. I did my 2 year masters online at UNE, which meant I could work FT during the day and do my study at night. STEM teachers are in super demand at the moment, and having a teacher with a PHD looks very very good for a school - lots of potential for progression to Head of Department roles there. Don't underestimate how much the elite private schools look at your background to see what you can do for the school - I know people that cant teach for shit, but because they've represented Australia in their chosen sport they were a shoe-in for Phys Ed jobs

Hey mate, I'm considering a bit of a career change at the moment and am thinking of doing the same course as you at UNE. What was the course actually like? Is it well taught and such? I'd be doing mine from WA.

 

[wadistance]

Hey mate, I'm considering a bit of a career change at the moment and am thinking of doing the same course as you at UNE. What was the course actually like? Is it well taught and such? I'd be doing mine from WA.

I always said that I wanted to study education face to face because I thought it would be better, but to be honest, as long as you are motivated to do your own work, its fine. All the lectures are recorded as podcasts, so you just need to listen to those, and then obviously work through the modules on Moodle (their online learning portal). I enjoyed it - and you'll realise within 3 mins of stepping through the classroom door that as long as you are personable and know your shit, nothing you learnt in uni really matters

 

[Man of Men]

I always said that I wanted to study education face to face because I thought it would be better, but to be honest, as long as you are motivated to do your own work, its fine. All the lectures are recorded as podcasts, so you just need to listen to those, and then obviously work through the modules on Moodle (their online learning portal). I enjoyed it - and you'll realise within 3 mins of stepping through the classroom door that as long as you are personable and know your shit, nothing you learnt in uni really matters

thanks heaps

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Hi all. Another question for the guru's out there.

As a new teacher, I am on 'Probation'.
Probation is the point between getting my degree, and becoming a fully registered teacher.

I'm having a really hard time finding the information that I need about NT Teachers and probation.

Does anyone know if;
1. As a probationer, I'm supposed to teach for the same hours, or less than, the other teachers?
2. If probation can be sped up?
3. If I am being taken advantage of or not, in terms of walking the school grounds picking up rubbish and dog shit. Walking around the community after school, talking to parents about their students (sometimes mildly dangerous situations). Doing any and all of the heavy lifting, because I'm the only teacher strong enough out here.?