Time for the Joeys!!

[Star]

With the results of the past fortnight in mind, it would be a fair assumption that we are not going to win the flag and will struggle to make the finals. (It is still very early, but the signs are not good considering our fully fit list)

TIME FOR THE KIDS!!!!!

I am sick of hearing the 'not ready' excuse. I think there is only one real way of knowing the answer to that one.

I think the selectors have been on the right track with Junior and Hardo, but there is such a long way to go and many passengers hanging on for the ride at present.

Harris, Smith, Petrie, Watson and perhaps Pratt would have all had a better run at clubs which finished above us on the ladder last year. Lets get them in now, one or two at a time. (The Hawks that thumped us last week had 3 guys with 2 games experience each).

The big danger is fickle supporters jumping off. I for one would go along every week to see these future stars, as many of us did when Stevo, Duck, Schwatta, Rocky, Arch and Micky were kids.

Some support please, I am sick of getting shot down playing this tune!

 

[Groucho]

I probably agree now. The only problem is the worth of replacing an out of form senior player with an out of form youngster. Petrie aside the young guys haven't been setting the world on fire.

 

[Star]

Originally posted by Groucho
The only problem is the worth of replacing an out of form senior player with an out of form youngster.

Fair call Groucho. Regarding Petrie, is it necessary given the relative success of Burton/Porter, that he has to play in the ruck.

What about CHB or another marking forward in a conventional set up

 

[moomba]

Agreed

Unless there is extenuating circumstances one of Harvey, Grant and Choppy should go. They had a pitiful 26 touches between them and most of those were after the game was already over. All three have struggles for weeks and I suspect an example needs to be made.

Archer, Clayton, Cochrane, Colbert, both rucks, Harding, King, Makey, Robbins, Stevo (wouldn't mind resting him for a week) and Simmo all retain their place. Everyone else under the pump.

Moomba

 

[CoastBhoy]

yes , if there form in the magoos warrants it , if not there is no point chucking them in for the sake of it

if there struggling in the vfl they are not going to cut it at the top level just yet

if dylan smith and drew petrie beform well in the murray roos they would deserve a call up

 

[Moti.com]

Our problem is that we have too many old style footballers, poor skills but a lot of heart.
Stevo may have had high teens possessions, but he was effective about only 5 or 6.
The WCE, Hawks and Cats showed what is needed, good runners with good skills.
How good is Judd!
We need to back our youngsters. Guys like the Motlops, Watt and Harding should have played the majority of the game today. In the end we were stuck with the same crew week in week out.
Time to pick a group and say, here is the next month, show us what you can. It is no use having five midfielders that are the same, we need runners and guys with skill in the centre. Harris, welcome.

 

[Sco]

couldn't agree more, should be 6 changes.

and what a suprise, mr. inconsistentcy himself, shannon grant doing F**K all again.

he had a few mates this week:
*byron pickett (has lost his mind),
*brent harvey (barely touched it admittedly he was off the ground a bit),
*digby morrell (did nothing), stuart cochrane (couldnt get close to wirrpunda),
*troy makepeace (ordinary however not as bad as the players above).
*shance clayton (alright 1st half bad in the 2nd)

 

[Star]

AT least with an out of form youngster it is still a learning experience, there is only one way for an out of form oldy to go...

 

[morpheus]

Re: Re: Time for the Joeys!!

Originally posted by moomba
Agreed

Unless there is extenuating circumstances one of Harvey, Grant and Choppy should go. They had a pitiful 26 touches between them and most of those were after the game was already over. All three have struggles for weeks and I suspect an example needs to be made.

Archer, Clayton, Cochrane, Colbert, both rucks, Harding, King, Makey, Robbins, Stevo (wouldn't mind resting him for a week) and Simmo all retain their place. Everyone else under the pump.

Moomba

You can add McCartney to that list as long as he plays in the backline.

Time to make some tough decisions.

And your right 26 touches between the 3 of them is just not on, Harvey looks lost and in needs to get some cofindence back and the same with Grant.

 

[NeoBlaze]

how did my HEEEEEERO (sav rocca) play? i'm guessing ****....and diggers has been very ordinary last two weeks, played fantastic in his first game vs carlton, but very ordinary since then,....and can any one give a match report?

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by NeoBlaze
how did my HEEEEEERO (sav rocca) play? i'm guessing ****....and diggers has been very ordinary last two weeks, played fantastic in his first game vs carlton, but very ordinary since then,....and can any one give a match report?

Pretty hard for the tall forwards to do well when our midfield is in such bad form. Same goes for last week. Can anyone remember a time in the last two weeks when one of our players has bursted out of the midfield and delivered the ball lace out to Sav or Digby. It seems that the ball is always kickde to the competion and our forwards are forced to wait under the ball while two or three opponents come up from behind.

Moomba

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by moomba


Pretty hard for the tall forwards to do well when our midfield is in such bad form. Same goes for last week. Can anyone remember a time in the last two weeks when one of our players has bursted out of the midfield and delivered the ball lace out to Sav or Digby. It seems that the ball is always kickde to the competion and our forwards are forced to wait under the ball while two or three opponents come up from behind.

Moomba

Spot on, Moomba.

Sav is a key forward, the blokes upfield are the key to his form ad he can't do much if they are unable to kick it to him.

Diggers didn't have a great deal of the ball but it was for the same reason... yo ujust have to look at how ineffective King, Grant, Harvey, etc were in getting the ball out of the middle.

Diggers did however take two or three contested marks which is more than many of our other players have done.

People can spout as much sarcasm and vitriol as they like at blokes like Sav and Diggers but that's pointless if there's no one that can replace them even half as effectively.

 

[pastie37]

i think the guy who should take a look at himself is King. He has been woeful the last 2 weeks. either give him a spell in the twos or put him on the half forward line where his lack of discipline in manning up wont be exposed as much.

 

[Dingster]

Some reasonable posts here. Up to this week, I would have suggested that we play towards a finals spot and give the youngsters some exposure depending on form and circumstances.

However, we just can't tolerate performances like we've churned out the past two weeks and finals are a long shot at best. Our priority should now move to developing the next group. Putting too many in at once and exposing them to constant beatings would not be smart. Hopefully we can see a systematic approach to introducing them and giving them game time and more tolerance.

Petrie is the tough one. He clearly deserves a chance, but can we play the three talls? None of them can play a key position by all accounts. Spider has been great and why recruit Porter if we're not going to play him? Could we rotate Spider and Porter through the ruck/bench and play Petrie out of the orward pocket? My thinking here is not team balance, but giving Petrie the experience and rucking responsibility for the forward line. Porter/Spider could then play a kick behind the play.

Any better ideas?

 

[Darky]

Porter must have been close to getting the lemon recently, but he was good today, and it's certainly not his fault we lost.

Porter and Cox are very similar players, and Cox is probably the more mobile of the two, but Porter played a pretty solid game and definitely won in the middle, albeit rucking to a non-responsive midfield.

Petrie's chance won't come yet, as it'd be silly to drop Burton against the very strong Adelaide ruck division (Biglands, Clarke, Marsh).

 

[Woodson]

Originally posted by Darky


Spot on, Moomba.

Sav is a key forward, the blokes upfield are the key to his form ad he can't do much if they are unable to kick it to him (and

Great posts Moomba & Darky, and u gotta agree that when Belly left, that killed our midfield. I think that had we had Belly last season we would of won enough games to make it to finals.

Since we're not playing with the same efficiency, the responsibility falls heavy on the 'experienced campaigner's to lead the way. Today we entered inside 50, 37 to WC's 52 times...that's the real story to our woes. The combination of efficiency and frequency is the killer. Simmo is doing a helluva lot without much assistance. Our Winger's are not hurting the opposition. The one percenter's aren't happening much.

Pastie37 wants Kingy on the HFF....that won't happen all game as Pagan loves to move him everywhere. I said early this season, that Kingy be given a 'licence to roam' as he is capable of getting North fired up....heck, nobody is willing or capable!!

Is it me or is North playing a kind of conservative style???

 

[tashibatts]

These are the guys that IMO should be dropped:
King (Whats with him, his kicking has been attrocious the last 2 weeks)
Harvey (Really out of form.. unusual for him)
Grant (Been out of form for a while now)
Pickett (Maybe his form went with his hair?!)

Bring on Smith,Harris,Crowe(Please..) and Sinclair

Go Roos

Will be interesting to see the changes.. and we need less talls.. tall doesn't work for us nemore.. we should have 4 talls + the ruck (One on the field one on the bench) So we should have a tall art FB,CHB,CHF and FF..not in a flank or newhere.

 

[great]

Is it just me or does every one get a bit frazzled with the number of times our guys either lay a tackle that just does not stick , or even worse let their opponent through without a touch?

The continual blind kicks forward from the centre are also really starting to annoy me.

All that leads to is another turn over that places added pressure on the centre line to start with and then our defence.

Our forward and back lines would look a hell of a lot better if our mid field lifted their game.In my opinion that is where we have been killed in the last 2 weeks.

Simmo has been the exception and Robbins / Clayton OK......The rest of them should take a pretty good look at themselves

 

[moomba]

Haven't seen the game, only listened to the last half, haven't seen any seconds games and basically have no idea what is going on but:

IN - Smith, Bourke
OUT - Harvey, Watt

Rationale I have used is:

Smith is supposed to be a skilful, classy midfielder and I think that is what we are severely lacking. Harris would be an improvement on what was out there today but he is another that tends to throw the ball on the boot and hope for the best. I would be happy for Harris as well but I think long term Smith is the better bet.

I think this one might get a response but I think we have severe problems in the backline at the moment. We are getting goals kicked against us with ease at the moment and McCartney is our only true tall. I am sure someone will disagree but Bourke has played good senior footy for Richmond as a tall backman and I think he is the only ready option in the seconds at the moment. Keep him and defence and we have a bit more flexibility to play Archer up forward without decimating the backline.

Bourke is also an option to go forward if we (again) fall into the predictable bang it long routine. I know their are players that are playing better and are probably more deserving, but I think that Bourke is the best fit (apart from Watt) to cover a glaring deficiency. Besides Denis could find out once and for all if Bourke is a player worth having on the list. As for Watt I think he could play the same role (and I have my doubts there too), but Denis is obviously not comfortable playing him in a key position so I would rather he got four quarters in the seconds.

What this really shows is the lack of tall defensive (and attacking) options we have at the club until the likes of Crowe, Hale etc prove they are ready.

Harvey is a real concern, and for the last two weeks his possessions (and there have not been many) have generally come once the heat has gone out of the game. He could be suffering an injury, but I tend to think that he is not putting in the hard yards when the game is on the line, but then is getting the easy kicks once the heat has gone out of the game. He is a much better player, but another that does this is Daniel Harford and I depsise him. Give him a week in the reserves, a kick up the bum and a warning that 100% four quarter efforts only will be tolerated if he expects to be considered (in reputation and pay) as an elite AFL midfielder.

Tashi I think all four midfielders is probably a bit too much to drop at once but hopefully the kick up the bum felt by the unfortunate one will be felt by all of our underperforming players.

I will now put on my anti-Bourke defence helmet on and await your replies.

Moomba

 

[tashibatts]

Originally posted by moomba

Tashi I think all four midfielders is probably a bit too much to drop at once but hopefully the kick up the bum felt by the unfortunate one will be felt by all of our underperforming players.

I will now put on my anti-Bourke defence helmet on and await your replies.

Its 2 midfielders, one defender and a forward/defender.

Ok, Smith- I agree.. we should prob give him hte experience before he gets another hammy neway.. but yes.. bring him in.. cant bring in Harris- so much like Stevo/Robbins, would be to much. What we need is a slik midfielder, a guy whos quick and silky and can dodge players with ease than accelerate.. quick and slick.. thats what I reckon. Smith sounds like hte guy..

Bourke- NO. Simple as that, the guys a hack.. a HACK I tell you... he cant kick.. his head is as small as an ants butt, and therefore cant have much of a brain inside. NO NO NO. Have u looked at his profile?

The guys SKINNIER than Cooper- and everyones saying Cooper's not ready, well take a look at Bourke- Cooper's 2 kilos heavier.. Bourke is 80kilos.. and we're saying Coopers not physically ready.. well take a look at Bourkes profile than.

And he's 10 kilos less weight than Crowe and is 4 cm's taller than Crowe...

Go figure..

Now we cant bring in Cooper.. but we CAN bring in Crowe.. so I say drop Watt, Bring in Crowe.

These are the changes I have so far devised:

Out: Watt,Pickett,King,Harvey
In:Crowe, Sinclair,Teague,Smith

And than the next week maybe drop Grant.. but at least he is getting more possies than Boomer, which is y I dropped Boomer ahead of him.

Go Roos
Take a look at Bourke's profile, and NEVER again tell me Cooper or Crowe are to skinny. Hale, yes he is to skinny.. but u can NEVER bring in Bourke ahead of Cooper or Crowe because he's more physiclaly developed. Because he ISNT. He may have more experience, but experience comes with time, and every guy who goes through the AFL has to get experience sometime..

 

[Woodson]

Originally posted by moomba

IN - Smith, Bourke
OUT - Harvey, Watt


Harvey is a real concern, and for the last two weeks his possessions (and there have not been many) have generally come once the heat has gone out of the game. I will now put on my anti-Bourke defence helmet on and await your replies.

Moomba

Ouch, to drop our 'best' little man is cutting our running legs. It would have to be a minor niggly that's holding him back....apparently Boomer spent time on the pine.

It's definately time for the match committee to swing the axe!

I wouldn't be surprised if Choppy is made an example this time around. Shaggs had a 'yucky one AGAIN' while our centreline is more a concern than our 'constantly under the pump' backline'.

I got to see 'first hand' Bourkey play 'servicable' games at Tigerland over the last few years but when I saw him twice at training last week, I just shook my head thinking, this guy lacks grunt....no presence in body man on man contests and only has 'courage' as his prime asset. Sure can leap, yeah, but at what cost??? Big Mac and Xavier Tanner will be long remembered for the #25 North guernsey.

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by tashibatts


Its 2 midfielders, one defender and a forward/defender.

Fair point but 4 similar type of players

Bourke- NO. Simple as that, the guys a hack.. a HACK I tell you... he cant kick.. his head is as small as an ants butt, and therefore cant have much of a brain inside. NO NO NO. Have u looked at his profile?

The guys SKINNIER than Cooper- and everyones saying Cooper's not ready, well take a look at Bourke- Cooper's 2 kilos heavier.. Bourke is 80kilos.. and we're saying Coopers not physically ready.. well take a look at Bourkes profile than.

And he's 10 kilos less weight than Crowe and is 4 cm's taller than Crowe...

Have you seen him play any games for Richmond Tashi? A Tiger mate of mine reckons he was a good player, only he couldn't stay on the field for more than 10 minutes without getting injured. You never know he might come on and play a good game for us . I'd love to see some of the responses on this board if it happened.

I wouldn't even mind if we brought in a Crowe or a Cooper only that Denis and others have repeatedly said they are not ready just yet. Time in the Seconds will improve Crowe, Cooper etc, I doubt that it is benefiting Bourke at all. Save the good young guys for when they are ready, they will be around I suspect much longer than Bourke, we have got to be sure we do the right thing by them.

These are the changes I have so far devised:

Out: Watt,Pickett,King,Harvey
In:Crowe, Sinclair,Teague,Smith

And than the next week maybe drop Grant.. but at least he is getting more possies than Boomer, which is y I dropped Boomer ahead of him.

King's 20 touches, while not great are probably not demotion material. I guess it depends on what he did with the touches, perhaps someone can help. Choppy, King and Harvey all being dropped puts us very short on leadership as well as potential match turners/winners IMO.

Moomba

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by Woodson


Ouch, to drop our 'best' little man is cutting our running legs. It would have to be a minor niggly that's holding him back....apparently Boomer spent time on the pine.

You could be right, I certainly hope that is the reason for it. Last week Boomer was anonymous when the game was on the line, and only started getting possessions once the heat had gone out of the game. It looks like the same happened this week with I think 8 of his 10 or so touches in the last quarter.

I got to see 'first hand' Bourkey play 'servicable' games at Tigerland over the last few years but when I saw him twice at training last week, I just shook my head thinking, this guy lacks grunt....no presence in body man on man contests and only has 'courage' as his prime asset. Sure can leap, yeah, but at what cost??? Big Mac and Xavier Tanner will be long remembered for the #25 North guernsey.

LOL. I doubt he is ever going to outmuscle someone. He might give us a bit of presence in the air though, and a bit of flexibility to put him up forward, in defence or even release Arch to go up forward.

I would much rather come up with three or four names before Bourke but I guess that is how I side is at the moment. Probably still a couple of years away for a lot of our youngsters. I just can't see another option (other than Watt) to be able to play that a sort of role I think the side needs.

Moomba

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by Woodson

Is it me or is North playing a kind of conservative style???

About as conservative as a nun at a conservationists convention!

 

[Darky]

Can't agree with ANY suggestion to play Bourke in the seniors.

His skills are shocking, he has no body strength, his vision (decision making) is shytful, and he is unco-ordinated.

I am not doubting his courage, but it's not worth much when there is zero ability to go with it. It's an absolute puzzle how he managed 8 years and 85 games at Richmond... and an even bigger puzzle how a smart coach like Denis Pagan could bring him to North Melbourne.