Time to re-think the secondary markets

[Coolangatta]

If we are trying to grow the game in Queensland, wouldn’t it make sense for the Queensland team (GC) to be playing games in Queensland? If GC want to sell home games, play in Cairns and Townsville or Mackay.

Rotate all clubs through Darwin once we get a second neutral round (10 games actually) in 2028 with 19 teams playing 24.

Four games in Darwin, four in Canberra, one in NZ, one in Albury or Coffs Harbour. Return all GSW games to Sydney.

They can sell games where they like. They might be a Queensland based team, but they are under no obligation to represent all of QLD anymore than the Giants are to represent anymore than Sydney.

They're a Gold Coast team, the moment they stop playing games in Darwin is the moment they may as well move all their home games to GC.

By that stage, they won't need the NT academy, but for now, they seem to be enjoying its perks, while turning Darwin into a fortress for themselves.

You know what else helps grow the club? Winning games of footy, which they do in Darwin.

The AFL will have an easier time with GC than with Western Sydney, I agree with you that WS is going to be a tough market to crack. If ACT doesn't get the 20th licence, it'd be a hell of a lot easier to move GWS to ACT than a Vic club if the Giants are still pulling 7-8k people per game in 10 years time.

There is no Southport equivalent local club with a long history in Western Sydney.

In hindsight, the AFL should've let the Roys move to Canberra, brought in Tassie decades ago, promoted a rebranded Southport as club 19, and brought in a 3rd WA club over a decade ago that would've grown well by now.

Then we wouldn't be talking about an NT or NQ club for a long time, as no one on earth would want to go beyond 20 teams now, given the reluctance to even go past 18 now.

Anyway, if the Suns want to stay in Darwin, let them, and the Hawks can play a game or two in Cairns instead. They can swap if the Suns want to move to NQ but I'm confident that when the Suns do leave Darwin, they won't have a secondary market anymore.

I expect their Darwin contract to be extended by at least 3 years.

 

[kranger]

I don’t have access to behind the paywall, but I think the image tells us.

bit.ly/4axVhNr

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don’t have access to behind the paywall, but I think the image tells us.

bit.ly/4axVhNr

View attachment 2006059

What Cairns needs to do to secure the Hawthorn Hawks and bring AFL back to the region

Powerbrokers from one of Queensland’s most fruitful footy nurseries will launch a bold bid to become Hawthorn’s new second home from 2026 in a move that already has the support of the AFL’s CEO. Full details here.

Cairns Australian Rules powerbrokers will launch a bold bid to become Hawthorn’s new second home from 2026 in a move that already has the support of the AFL’s CEO.

The Victorian powerhouse AFL club currently takes four games per season to Launceston as part of a deal with Tasmania.

But with the contract expiring at the end of 2025 and the impending addition of Tasmania Devils to the league in 2028 it opens the door for a southern raid by AFL Cairns figures who believe the Hawks could be lured to the Tropical Far North.

AFL CEO Andrew Dillon was in the Far North as part of the Sir Doug Nicholls Round last weekend and said Cairns is ideally positioned to secure a long-term partnership with an AFL club in the near future.

“The stadium (Cazalys) is fantastic and we have had games up here in the past,” he said.

“Moving into a new broadcast rights cycle there will be opportunities for us to have the men’s elite game play in different venues across the country.

“But those conversations need to be led by the clubs.

“It’s just a matter of having the conversations and if a club is interested in moving a game from their home, know what the vision is behind doing that.

“For me, it’s not just about the club coming up and playing a game. It’s about having really deep roots in the community.”

The Hawks currently play six home games at the MCG, four at Launceston’s UTAS Stadium and one at Marvel.

Since 2011, Gold Coast, Richmond, Western Bulldogs and St Kilda have used Cazalys Stadium a home for a game a year.

The Suns played a game in Cairns from 2011 to 2018, while the Tigers played three games from 2011-2013, the Bulldogs 2014-2017 and St Kilda 2021-2022.

Cairns housed clubs during the covid riddled 2020, with Sydney, Melbourne, Fremantle, Western Bulldogs and Brisbane all playing games at Cazalys Stadium.

Richmond looked to grow the game to become a more national sport, taking three homes games over the three years to the Tropics.

The Tasmania Devils will enter the AFL in 2028, leaving a gap between when the Hawks-Tassie deal ends and when the 19th club enters the competition.

It is understood the Hawks would prefer to lock-in a ‘home’ game against the Devils in Tasmania’s north once the 19th team enters.

Hawthorn played a game in Cairns in 2023 against Richmond in the first AFLW clash in Far North in what was a stepping stone for AFL Cairns general manager Craig Lees to bring elite content back to the region.

The Hawks AFLW side are in discussions with the Queensland Government and AFL Cairns to return for an league fixture and pre-season camp in 2024.

If Cairns were successful in enticing the powerful Victorian club to the region, it would boost the economy of the region on the back of an influx of increased tourism.

But it will also expand the growth of AFL in regional Queensland and could be the tipping point that turns the once NRL state into AFL heartland.

Cairns will also have the three-time premiership AFLW side, Adelaide Crows arrive in the region for a four day training camp from Thursday June 6.

Sounds like Hawthorn still wants a game in Launceston even after there's a Tasmanian club. Also it's a really weirdly titled article given they never explain the answer.

 

[Coolangatta]

Sounds like Hawthorn still wants a game in Launceston even after there's a Tasmanian club. Also it's a really weirdly titled article given they never explain the answer.

They could, if they wanted to, use this as a way to give Tassie an 8th home game in Hobart and get more out of the stadium. The Devils could play three at home in Launceston and one in Launceston away against the Hawks.

The Hawks could also play one or two home games in Cairns.

No problems with this - Cairns have no more ties to GC than Darwin does, so if the Suns are happy to continue their partnership with Darwin beyond 2026, I don't see the issue.

I doubt the Suns are the most popular footy club among the North Queenslander's who do follow footy up there.

 

[Pivot Piece]

Someone should play a game in Townsville again, that stadium was decent when the Suns played a game there in 2019. Bigger population than Cairns too (although I understand there is less footy presence there)

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Do we really need more markets? I think Markets are going to be $$$ driven, rather than location.

There are enough Primary Venues to host the games:

• VIC hosts 5 games every week - MCG can comfortably host 3 games a week (Thu/Fri night, Sat/Sat Night, Sun), Docklands can host 2 games a week. Geelong has GMHBA.
• WA, SA, QLD, NSW host 1 game each every week - should be pretty simple to rotate WCE/Freo, Port/Adel, Bris/GC, GWS/Syd.
• TAS hosts 1 game every fortnight (8 Hobart, 3 Launceston - then North sell 1 game to Hobart, Hawks play 1 game in Launceston - giving 13 total Tasmania Games)

Introduce a regular weekly "Community Game" - Every week, one "Vic" game is held outside the above venues (e.g. Ballarat, Cairns, Darwin, Canberra, Newcastle, Wellington, Auckland). Possibly a Saturday Twilight/Sunday Afternoon game (built up in the community, avoiding local sports conflicts).

1 x "Gather" Round (IMO, should be rotating through different states each year).
2 x "Rivalry" Rounds

With roughly 75 games max available at MCG and 50 Docklands:

Carlton - 4/6 + (1 x Community)
Collingwood - 9/1 + (1 x Community)
Essendon - 4/6 + (1 x Community)
Geelong - 5/0 + (5 GMHBA, (1 x Community))
Hawthorn - 8/1 + (1 Launceston, 1 x Community)
Melbourne - 8/2 + (1 x Community)
North - 3/6 + (1 Hobart, 1 x Community)
Richmond - 8/2 + (1 x Community)
St Kilda - 3/7 + (1 x Community)
Western - 3/7 + (1 x Community)

MCG - 55
Docklands - 38
GMHBA - 5
Hobart - 9
Launceston - 4
"Community" - 10

 

[Coolangatta]

Do we really need more markets? I think Markets are going to be $$$ driven, rather than location.

There are enough Primary Venues to host the games:

• VIC hosts 5 games every week - MCG can comfortably host 3 games a week (Thu/Fri night, Sat/Sat Night, Sun), Docklands can host 2 games a week. Geelong has GMHBA.
• WA, SA, QLD, NSW host 1 game each every week - should be pretty simple to rotate WCE/Freo, Port/Adel, Bris/GC, GWS/Syd.
• TAS hosts 1 game every fortnight (8 Hobart, 3 Launceston - then North sell 1 game to Hobart, Hawks play 1 game in Launceston - giving 13 total Tasmania Games)

Introduce a regular weekly "Community Game" - Every week, one "Vic" game is held outside the above venues (e.g. Ballarat, Cairns, Darwin, Canberra, Newcastle, Wellington, Auckland). Possibly a Saturday Twilight/Sunday Afternoon game (built up in the community, avoiding local sports conflicts).

1 x "Gather" Round (IMO, should be rotating through different states each year).
2 x "Rivalry" Rounds

With roughly 75 games max available at MCG and 50 Docklands:

Carlton - 4/6 + (1 x Community)
Collingwood - 9/1 + (1 x Community)
Essendon - 4/6 + (1 x Community)
Geelong - 5/0 + (5 GMHBA, (1 x Community))
Hawthorn - 8/1 + (1 Launceston, 1 x Community)
Melbourne - 8/2 + (1 x Community)
North - 3/6 + (1 Hobart, 1 x Community)
Richmond - 8/2 + (1 x Community)
St Kilda - 3/7 + (1 x Community)
Western - 3/7 + (1 x Community)

MCG - 55
Docklands - 38
GMHBA - 5
Hobart - 9
Launceston - 4
"Community" - 10

Not until the Giants **** off out of Canberra.

And 1 "community" game isn't enough for Canberra, they should be team 20 once NT is ruled out which surely it will be.

This mostly looks good, though. Roos won't sell a game to Tassie, though, it'd be a loss maker unless they host the Devils but can't see them doing that.

I think after Tassie the secondary markets will look like this (I don't really care about the MCG/Marvel allocation tbh).

Suns 2 Darwin
Giants 3 Canberra (hopefully no more after 2032). 2033, all games back to Sydney if they're serious about having a crack.
Hawks 1 Cairns, 1 Launceston
Dees 1 Alice Springs (they seem committed to this)
Roos 2 Bendigo

That's about it. Not much will change IMO. If Canberra gets a team, we might see them host one game in Albury (apparently no AFL standard ground in Wagga).

 

[Walshawk]

Not until the Giants **** off out of Canberra.

And 1 "community" game isn't enough for Canberra, they should be team 20 once NT is ruled out which surely it will be.

This mostly looks good, though. Roos won't sell a game to Tassie, though, it'd be a loss maker unless they host the Devils but can't see them doing that.

I think after Tassie the secondary markets will look like this (I don't really care about the MCG/Marvel allocation tbh).

Suns 2 Darwin
Giants 3 Canberra (hopefully no more after 2032). 2033, all games back to Sydney if they're serious about having a crack.
Hawks 1 Cairns, 1 Launceston
Dees 1 Alice Springs (they seem committed to this)
Roos 2 Bendigo

That's about it. Not much will change IMO. If Canberra gets a team, we might see them host one game in Albury (apparently no AFL standard ground in Wagga).

Plus Dogs 2 Ballarat.
No AFL standard ground in Bendigo. QE2 Oval has a nice heritage grandstand but that is it. That won’t happen. Instead of spending more money in Ballarat, they should have upgraded Bendigo, which is right in town and would be a better place for a club to play than Ballarat. North more likely to be in Albury which is ready to go.

 

[Coolangatta]

Plus Dogs 2 Ballarat.
No AFL standard ground in Bendigo. QE2 Oval has a nice heritage grandstand but that is it. That won’t happen. Instead of spending more money in Ballarat, they should have upgraded Bendigo, which is right in town and would be a better place for a club to play than Ballarat. North more likely to be in Albury which is ready to go.

Ah, yeah, forgot about the Dogs.

Didn’t know that about Bendigo.

Albury would be good for the Roos to play a couple at.

If there is to be a 20th club, Canberra ought to play all their home games at Manuka and play an away one against the Roos in Albury.

 

[Rob]

So clubs can sell home games to an opposition club then?

Cool, cool.

 

[errant bounce]

Reckon the GWS - ACT arrangement will look pretty stupid, trying to ‘grow the game’ in a new area and then only giving the potential audience only seven times to do it each year is one thing, but you’d just get far more traction from an established Victorian club.

Hawthorn playing up in Cairns and muddying the Suns and Lions’ own state, when they could just be in Canberra, is stupid.

 

[Walshawk]

Cochrane from GC just on SEn discussing this. His first point was that non- Vic teams need more games in their home state. Strange call given they play two in Darwin. Reckon that might end next season, leaving North to play a few games up north?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Hawthorn playing up in Cairns and muddying the Suns and Lions’ own state, when they could just be in Canberra, is stupid.

Queensland is not Victoria where everything is within a few hundred km of Melbourne. Cairns is the same distance from Brisbane as Melbourne is from Brisbane. They may as well be different states considering how far apart they are.

 

[Coolangatta]

Queensland is not Victoria where everything is within a few hundred km of Melbourne. Cairns is the same distance from Brisbane as Melbourne is from Brisbane. They may as well be different states considering how far apart they are.

I've been saying the same thing. North Queenslanders don't give a shit about the Lions and the Suns anymore than they do the Pies, Blues, etc. The Hawks playing up there won't stop the Suns from growing their profile.

 

[Bjo187]

Cochrane from GC just on SEn discussing this. His first point was that non- Vic teams need more games in their home state. Strange call given they play two in Darwin. Reckon that might end next season, leaving North to play a few games up north?

Love Tony Cochrane, don't agree with everything he proposes, but he is a great thinker outside the square and sells an idea better than anyone. Should be on the afl commission, might breath some life into them.

 

[Walshawk]

North’s boss said on ABC yesterday that they are working on their Hobart exit strategy and that they will not be bringing those four games to marvel. They are open to playing anywhere and implied it would go to the highest bidder.

With GC leading the non Victoria clubs in requesting less travel, surely they bring their Darwin games back to GC and North can play there.

 

[Coolangatta]

North’s boss said on ABC yesterday that they are working on their Hobart exit strategy and that they will not be bringing those four games to marvel. They are open to playing anywhere and implied it would go to the highest bidder.

With GC leading the non Victoria clubs in requesting less travel, surely they bring their Darwin games back to GC and North can play there.

Yep. Giants playing 11 games in Sydney and Suns 11 in GC makes sense to me if you want to maximise growth.

Hawks cover Cairns, Roos cover Darwin. I like it.

 

[Obzerva]

Yep. Giants playing 11 games in Sydney and Suns 11 in GC makes sense to me if you want to maximise growth.

Hawks cover Cairns, Roos cover Darwin. I like it.

I can still see Hawks playing at least one home game in Launceston.
Hawthorn are more well liked in Launceston than what North are in Hobart.

Think the Tas government would be keen to have an additional game at UTAS Stadium seeing it's also having money spent on it for an upgrade.

Giants have a contract to play 3 games in Canberra until 2030 I think, whether that get an early exit if the Roos wanted to head back to Canberra remains to be seen.

I doubt Hawthorn would want to continue to sell 4 home games interstate, could see at least one extra game headed back to Melbourne. Although the selling of home games interstate is a clever tactic to get paid to not have to play games at Marvel.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

North’s boss said on ABC yesterday that they are working on their Hobart exit strategy and that they will not be bringing those four games to marvel. They are open to playing anywhere and implied it would go to the highest bidder.

With GC leading the non Victoria clubs in requesting less travel, surely they bring their Darwin games back to GC and North can play there.

Why would they do that? The AFL have given Darwin as the GC's concession zone and they work those kids into their academy.

Other Vic clubs have zone's in NT outside of Darwin. North have missed the boat with the NT.

 

[Walshawk]

Why would they do that? The AFL have given Darwin as the GC's concession zone and they work those kids into their academy.

Other Vic clubs have zone's in NT outside of Darwin. North have missed the boat with the NT.

GC don’t need any extra help outside their Qld Academy. They want less travel

North want to sell games. Where else is likely to offer more $$$?

Albury is ready to go for North if GC want to contradict their stance on travel by continuing in Darwin.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

GC don’t need any extra help outside their Qld Academy. They want less travel

North want to sell games. Where else is likely to offer more $$$?

Albury is ready to go for North if GC want to contradict their stance on travel by continuing in Darwin.

Some North people may have more info on this, but I thought North were also looking to sell some games in WA after they withdraw from Hobart?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

GC don’t need any extra help outside their Qld Academy. They want less travel

North want to sell games. Where else is likely to offer more $$$?

Albury is ready to go for North if GC want to contradict their stance on travel by continuing in Darwin.

Until the GC become a powerhouse they are going to keep the Darwin zone. Just because they got 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder out of their GC zone last draft dosen't mean they have solved their problems.

Everyone wants less travel, but the GC are happy with travelling to Darwin, because everyone else they play there has to do more travelling than them.

North have failed everywhere else they have gone to as a 2nd market, so why take it off GC and give it to them?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Injecting tourism dollars into a secondary market until it gets its own team, in the meantime benefitting from increased sponsorship and membership revenue over a 15-year period... yeah what a failure. Nothing like the great three-year China success!

Speaking of which, if Gold Coast want to play all home games at Carrara while keeping a presence in NT, they can just do the weaselly Port Adelaide thing and transfer the Darwin games to other parties while requesting to play as the away team.

Regardless, nobody's taking anything off anybody. Don't be so dramatic.

 

[Bjo187]

Until the GC become a powerhouse they are going to keep the Darwin zone. Just because they got 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder out of their GC zone last draft dosen't mean they have solved their problems.

Everyone wants less travel, but the GC are happy with travelling to Darwin, because everyone else they play there has to do more travelling than them.

North have failed everywhere else they have gone to as a 2nd market, so why take it off GC and give it to them?

N.T needs to go to the giants when Canberra comes into the competition, as they will lose that area. Western Sydney has the highest indigenous population in Australia, it will make the move easier for indigenous kids from the n.t and its good for the club to appeal to its own indigenous local kids as well.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

N.T needs to go to the giants when Canberra comes into the competition, as they will lose that area. Western Sydney has the highest indigenous population in Australia, it will make the move easier for indigenous kids from the n.t and its good for the club to appeal to its own indigenous local kids as well.

West of Sydney metro area, that's correct. The 13 council areas that make up what is considered GWS, then no.