Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[Huntercrow]

This is confusing one camp claims the "biggest rort of the last decade". The opposing camp says "slap on the wrist".

That leaves a huge gap in between, the middle ground is massive so to make any judgement on these two differing opinions is impossible.

As a Crows supporter I would love to believe the slap on the wrist camp but I think that would be hoping for too much. I dread the thought of the "biggest rort of the last decade" being the case, the implications would be enormous for our club. This is still early days and I think other clubs and people could be implicated further down the track.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I haven't read the pages of people's rulings and judgements however I have some unanswered questions.....

1. Let's assume that a email does exist stating that Adelaide will draft Kurt to the club of his choice for a 2nd round pick, does this constitute draft tampering even though Adelaide have shown clear intent to trade for market value compensation?

2. Let's assume that Kurt received 3rd Party payments of $100k per year, my understanding is that 3rd party payments are outside of the cap and would not constitute a cap breach?

3. Let's consider that the AFC did pay Kurt the additional $100k per year, the initial email provides a commitment to do so however at this stage has there been any evidence to suggest that if these payments did go ahead that they were kept of the books?

To conclude I personally believe that when assessing the crime people are getting blurred between the "what" and the "how", yes on the surface the email was extremely stupid and clumsy and provided some commitments however until we get more facts on whether Kurt received additional payments, from whom and how these payments were administered we could all be jumping to the wrong conclusions

The email in 2009 set an intent to trade Kurt to his club of choice, to me this is no more draft tampering then a player nominating a club and holding his previous club to a trade ransom, additionally the email set an intent to find an additional $100k per season through 3rd payments and for all we know these payments could have been administered as per the AFL laws

Regardless Triggy must go for his carelessness and for misleading the board however I'm yet to be convinced on the size of the crime and subsequent punishment

Even in the best case scenario we have all ready lost both on and off the field

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

What were the circumstances around John Reids departure from the club? Did he leave or did we push him? I just assumed he thought it was time to leave but I've seen some people say he wasn't happy when he left.

He retired which he announced 12 months prior

 

[Wood_Duck]

All

I haven't read the pages of people's rulings and judgements however I have some unanswered questions.....

1. Let's assume that a email does exist stating that Adelaide will draft Kurt to the club of his choice for a second round pick, does this constitute draft tampering even though Adelaide have shown clear intent to trade or market value compensation?

2. Let's assume that Kurt received 3rd Party payments of $100k per year, my understanding is that3rd party payments are outside of the cap and would not constitute a cap breach?

3. Let's consider that the AFC had to pay Kurt the additional $100k per year, the initial email provides a commitment to do so however at this stage has there been any evidence to suggest that if these payments did go ahead that they were kept of the books

To conclude I personally believe that when assessing the crime people are getting blurred between the "what" and the "how", yes on the surface the email was extremely stupid and clumsy and provided some commitments however until we get more facts on whether Kurt received additional payments, from whom and how these payments were administered we could all be jumping to conclusions

The email in 2009 set an intent to trade Kurt to his club if choice, to me this is no more draft tampering then a player nominating a club and holding his previous club to trade ransom, additionally the email set an intent to find $100k per season of 3rd payment and for all we know these payments could have been administered as per the AFL laws

Regardless Triggy must go for his carelessness and for misleading the board however I'm yet to be convinced on the size of the crime and subsequent punishment

Even in the best case scenario we have all ready lost both on and off the field

Good post, pretty much sums up the current scenario.

 

[skoobydoo]

After all the to and fro-ing with deals, conditions etc., I find it very difficult to believe that all persons in the Tippett camp were not totally aware of the incentives that were asked for and granted, especially Kurt. As as been spelled out by others here, the parties sign legal documents saying that is 'all there is Mr AFL' and all would know what was spelled out in the contract and what was added via a separate document or oral agreement. The contract issues for Tippett were so large and protracted that he must have known the full deal and the restrictions and perils of arrangements that would be construed as 'draft manipulation'. Maybe the alledged under-the-table stuff by the AFC concerning the 'additions' to Tippetts contract was an attempt to protect the image/perception of the Club with/from our other contracted players and the football world in general, in both $ terms and the 'wanna go home' ramifications. Hope that is understandable.

The 'I wanna go home now I am a star' syndrome is becoming a huge problem for most clubs. The AFL need to address the issue, particularly in terms of 'restraint of trade' because it is not just a money issue. Or is it? Tippett would be a millionaire from a rich family yet he seems to be just chasing more dollars.

 

[jenny61_99]

He's not a complete moron Jen. Maybe he didn't appreciate the full ramifications, but he'd have known what he was doing.

If the last week has taught you anything, you should realise, you can never be sure what people are capable of.

True that.

 

[spenze]

Ruccis article wasn't as poor as his usual efforts, at least he didn't link us to picking up Jessie White in the PSD

 

[jenny61_99]

What were the circumstances around John Reids departure from the club? Did he leave or did we push him? I just assumed he thought it was time to leave but I've seen some people say he wasn't happy when he left.

He was pushed.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Good post, pretty much sums up the current scenario.

Please excuse spelling, difficult to type on iPhone (fat fingers)

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Ruccis article wasn't as poor as his usual efforts, at least he didn't link us to picking up Jessie White in the PSD

JW is contract for 1 more year

 

[FR0GGY]

I haven't read the pages of people's rulings and judgements however I have some unanswered questions.....

1. Let's assume that a email does exist stating that Adelaide will draft Kurt to the club of his choice for a 2nd round pick, does this constitute draft tampering even though Adelaide have shown clear intent to trade for market value compensation?

2. Let's assume that Kurt received 3rd Party payments of $100k per year, my understanding is that 3rd party payments are outside of the cap and would not constitute a cap breach?

3. Let's consider that the AFC did pay Kurt the additional $100k per year, the initial email provides a commitment to do so however at this stage has there been any evidence to suggest that if these payments did go ahead that they were kept of the books?

To conclude I personally believe that when assessing the crime people are getting blurred between the "what" and the "how", yes on the surface the email was extremely stupid and clumsy and provided some commitments however until we get more facts on whether Kurt received additional payments, from whom and how these payments were administered we could all be jumping to the wrong conclusions

The email in 2009 set an intent to trade Kurt to his club of choice, to me this is no more draft tampering then a player nominating a club and holding his previous club to a trade ransom, additionally the email set an intent to find an additional $100k per season through 3rd payments and for all we know these payments could have been administered as per the AFL laws

Regardless Triggy must go for his carelessness and for misleading the board however I'm yet to be convinced on the size of the crime and subsequent punishment

Even in the best case scenario we have all ready lost both on and off the field

Good post but I'd have to disagree with the first point. If a second rounder(s) was market value there would be no need to include that in the clause. They could just state that they will trade him to the club of his choice. At that stage (2009) a second rounder(s) was unders and that's why Blucher would have agreed to that as is theoretically make it easier for him to get back.

 

[spenze]

JW is contract for 1 more year

Hey, hey, hey,hey, woah there young man...facts have never, ever got in the way of a Rucci article

 

[FR0GGY]

He was pushed.

Any reasons why and by who?

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Good post but I'd have to disagree with the first point. If a second rounder(s) was market value there would be no need to include that in the clause. They could just state that they will trade him to the club of his choice. At that stage (2009) a second rounder(s) was unders and that's why Blucher would have agreed to that as is theoretically make it easier for him to get back.

Not entirely true

My understanding is that the 2nd round pick was based on what the AFC would have received at the time from the AFL as a comp pick had Kurt gone to the GC and not signed a new 3 year deal

 

[spenze]

Good post but I'd have to disagree with the first point. If a second rounder(s) was market value there would be no need to include that in the clause. They could just state that they will trade him to the club of his choice. At that stage (2009) a second rounder(s) was unders and that's why Blucher would have agreed to that as is theoretically make it easier for him to get back.

If I remember reading correctly, a second rounder would have been our compensation if Tips would have gone to the GC back in 2009, so that was what they considered "market value" as ill conceived as that is

 

[Alby_Green]

Blutcher is also Scullys manager. seems like hes a pro in Third Party deals. Scully father for example in a recruitment job

These agents need to go. Player salaries should be put in categories of 1- 5 ie 50-100k ,100-250k, 250-350k, 350-450k,450-600k

I know of player in the all Australian squad who was offered 150k last year in his contract and is no longer with that club. You cant tell me that Tippett was worth 600k more than this bloke- such are the irregularities in payments to players.

Big Ivan?

 

[jenny61_99]

Any reasons why and by who?

Yes, but can't say.

 

[FR0GGY]

Not entirely true

My understanding is that the 2nd round pick was based on what the AFC would have received at the time from the AFL as a comp pick had Kurt gone to the GC and not signed a new 3 year deal

If I remember reading correctly, a second rounder would have been our compensation if Tips would have gone to the GC back in 2009, so that was what they considered "market value" as ill conceived as that is

We could certainly use that as a defence. But afl compensation is not market value, it's a made up formula designed to confused.

 

[FR0GGY]

Yes, but can't say.

Anything to do with the Tippett saga?

 

[jenny61_99]

If I remember reading correctly, a second rounder would have been our compensation if Tips would have gone to the GC back in 2009, so that was what they considered "market value" as ill conceived as that is

Yes, which is why they might have thought that aspect of the agreement was relatively legitimate. We weren't going for overs, we weren't actually trying to position ourselves better. (As someone else said, we can't even cheat well!).

 

[Wood_Duck]

Yes, but can't say.

I actually thought it was pretty well known.

 

[FR0GGY]

I actually thought it was pretty well known.

It will be if you let us know pm or otherwise

 

[spenze]

Funny thing is, I am trying to figure out what my reaction would have been if we would have told Tippett to piss off back in 2009.

I'm pretty sure I would have felt the club wasn't doing enough to keep our gun interstate players and was short changing it's supporters and I would have blamed the next two seasons on us having not got Tippett to re sign.

 

[Mismatched]

W

Not entirely true

My understanding is that the 2nd round pick was based on what the AFC would have received at the time from the AFL as a comp pick had Kurt gone to the GC and not signed a new 3 year deal

No one had any idea at the time what we'd receive for Kurt if he had gone to GC as an uncontracted signing. However it would have been either band 1 or band 2 compo, not band 4 as you're suggesting, which is either 1 or 2 first round draft picks. A second round pick was always going to be well below market value.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

We could certainly use that as a defence. But afl compensation is not market value, it's a made up formula designed to confused.

The AFL would argue that their formula is statically based on market value