To Tank Or Not To Tank

[_RT_]

Ok it seems that there is a group of posters and it seems to be getting larger by the week, that wants us to tank. At the same time there is the supporters that want us to win as many games as possible to end the season.

So I thought it was time that we had a thread where everyone who wants to have a say can.

Personally, I don't want to see us going out with the plan being to lose the game. What I want to see though is a side that is aiming at the future. I want to see a side with as many kids playing as possible. If they lose the game then so be it. The good thing about this is firstly, you get to see the kids and see if they have what it takes to make it. Secondly any wins that are achieved by a team of kids is a good indication that they are on the right path, just have to be careful that the wins aren't coming against other sides that are also tanking.

If Rawlings comes out this week and picks a side that includes a couple of kids at the expense of a few older guys it will be a good indication as to which way he plans on going about the rest of the season. I can only assume by his comments after getting the gig that he will be looking at giving as many opportunities as possible to the kids.

 

[tony_montana]

Tank
KIDS KIDS KIDS, make some positional changes and lets not win games on the back of the old fellas hey? Do not beat a side like wce who will do everything in their power to win no more than 4 games for the season to get their PP. Let them beat us this week and get them on 4 wins otherwise we are looking at probable pick 4 or 5

 

[Barnzy]

This thread is confusing. Tanking is playing the kids with the aim for the future as you want to happen RT, yet you've voted for the don't tank option. The first option should be Tank - Try and win with as many kids as possible. Then maybe the second option should be, Keep playing older players, try to win. You don't tell your side to go out and just deliberately lose, people still don't understand this concept. It's only called tanking because you might be playing kids who aren't ready at the expense of older players which might cause an extra loss or two not because you want to lose.

 

[Madtiger2006]

If we can permanently replace Simmo, Pettifer, Mcmahon and Bowden with Graham, Nahas, Thomson and Post this week, then I'll be happy. Also bring in Putt and give Moore a few weeks rest because Moore is not a forward and he won't replace Thursty, Mcguane or Rance in defence. If Putt and Post show that we have alot to work with on the half forward line, then excellent and I wouldn't care whether we get first pick or not. I doubt melbourne will win 5 games anyway. So we'll have to do with Post and Putt and we have to play them now and prepare them for 2010. If Post and Putt look a long way off at afl level or don't look like they'll be our answers to half forward then we would hope melbourne will win 5 games and we come last

 

[Tambo]

Players won't Tank. However Coaches can.

The question that stands out is; Why would Rawlings Tank?
He would prefer to enhance his coaching aspirations beyond 2009 by ensuring the team play to a style/ game plan successfully.

Therefore I cannot see a huge amount of youth playing at once. Two players inexperienced players this week is the maximum IMO. I'd rather focus on personally developing players currently in the 22.

 

[CoggaRules]

the same old tigerhead shit fight...yeah..there are those who look at the ulitmate and long term success and there are those that want to sing the song a few times before the year is out, spruiking that it fosters a winning culture, to hide their simplistic views. Go figure which of those two is the smart way to go for this, beleagured basket case of a club. I mean we have the last uncomprimised draft coming up, we have 6..oops sorry 5 over 30s who are on their farewell lap....and still this question is asked and there are still the slumber party that say no.....we will never learn will we? I mean, the only 2 we got right on the money, when we had top picks are no 1 and no 2.. with the talent supremo Miller....now that we have replaced him with who we hope can actually spot the real deal, we can get a top pick and get some real deals later, which of course to the nuff nuffs means nothing...as long as they sing the song a couple of more times this year......

Bottom line is this IMO. If we dont tank...and we go down that well worn path of finishing mediocre again, then we will have some fun in the sun in the bottom rungs of the 8 for a couple of years and then go back into the wilderness for the next 30 years at least.

 

[Khan]

Going on my definition of Tanking is , playing to lose. As simple as that hoping to win so we end up as low down the ladder as possible.

This to me is unacceptable, at no point should loosing a game be acceptable. If put kids in over older player becuase they deserve the spot , no issue but putting a kid in to lose a match.

Tigers show some pride.

 

[tony_montana]

This to me is unacceptable, at no point should loosing a game be acceptable. If put kids in over older player becuase they deserve the spot , no issue but putting a kid in to lose a match.

Tigers show some pride.

I'd rather they showed some brains personally and got with the program

 

[CoggaRules]

Going on my definition of Tanking is , playing to lose. As simple as that hoping to win so we end up as low down the ladder as possible.

This to me is unacceptable, at no point should loosing a game be acceptable. If put kids in over older player becuase they deserve the spot , no issue but putting a kid in to lose a match.

Tigers show some pride.

you talk like a loser....Put the kids in to see if they can win the match and if they lose, put another is and so on and so on, i.e. change what is happening now....I mean put the kids in over an older player because they deserve? FFS dude, how many times have you seen the words, our senior group let us down? Man....some people just walk around in a fog dont they?

Put the kids in and if they start winning then we know we are on the right track...if they start losing then we know which track we HAVE TO TAKE...do you not understand logic?

 

[emperor]

Perhaps it's a euphenism, but I am on the pro "list management" bandwagon. Call that tanking if you will, I prefer not too

Earlier posts have pretty much covered it, give the "baby goats" the run of the farm but have a fair dinkum crack every week. But play them in positions they could realistically play.

Cousins is the only part of this formula that I still wonder about because he could be a vital educator for our players. Not exactly sure where I stand on Cuzzy.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

I think I've made my opinion on this quite clear. I'd still like people to see which teams have successfully tanked and won premierships compared to those who didn't. Tanking is losing games on purpose NOT playing kids and trying to win.

Anyway, I wont ramble on.

Essentially we haven't tanked and finished last for years on end. Just like some of you 'tankers' to answer: We tank and finish last... what's the difference?

Tanking shouldn't even be discussed. Sport is about winning, not looking to the future in 10 years.

 

[Khan]

Yep I understand logic, I just dont want to see kids played so that we can lose or played when they arent ready. Get it.

Looking forward to loosing or manufacturing a loosing team is what I dont want see happen. Now do you get my logic

 

[CoggaRules]

I think I've made my opinion on this quite clear. I'd still like people to see which teams have successfully tanked and won premierships compared to those who didn't. Tanking is losing games on purpose NOT playing kids and trying to win.

Anyway, I wont ramble on.

Essentially we haven't tanked and finished last for years on end. Just like some of you 'tankers' to answer: We tank and finish last... what's the difference?

Tanking shouldn't even be discussed. Sport is about winning, not looking to the future in 10 years.

dude....i think you need to wake up a little.....the situation has gone way past talking flags....we are now in i would suggest the last throws of this club...another 20 in the wilderness and you can board up the place....we need to be a long term viable footy team on the field or we are toast...that means putting flag dreams on the back burner and looking at taking a discount and just playing finals, big games etc for an extended period. If the flag comes it comes...right now...that aint what we have to have.

 

[CoggaRules]

Yep I understand logic, I just dont want to see kids played so that we can lose or played when they arent ready. Get it.

Looking forward to loosing or manufacturing a loosing team is what I dont want see happen. Now do you get my logic

man...it the kids arent ready? our kids are never ready, or havent you been following the fortunes of the bulk of our kids?..
Dont care what they do....as long as it manufactures a winning team...and that winning team needs players who can play the ****ing game with skill..how they get it i dont give a ****...tank..shank..wank...just get some real talent any way they can..

 

[Darth_Tiger]

list management mode: yes.
outright tanking: no.

 

[_RT_]

This thread is confusing. Tanking is playing the kids with the aim for the future as you want to happen RT, yet you've voted for the don't tank option. The first option should be Tank - Try and win with as many kids as possible. Then maybe the second option should be, Keep playing older players, try to win. You don't tell your side to go out and just deliberately lose, people still don't understand this concept. It's only called tanking because you might be playing kids who aren't ready at the expense of older players which might cause an extra loss or two not because you want to lose.

There seems to be a difference between what we call tanking.

To me tanking is when you plan to lose regardless of the side you put out on the park. I don't want that for Richmond, never have and never will. I want to see the side going out there each week and doing everything possible to win, the only issue I have with this is I want to see kids being played in preference to the older guys.

How much better would it feel, if we were fielding a side full of kids and started winning games in the second half of the season against a bunch of sides who are fighting for a top 8 spot. Remember we have games against top 8 contenders in Saints, Adelaide, Carlton, Essendon, Sydney, Collingwood and Hawthorn. Thats 7 of 11. If we could win 2-4 of them fielding a team of kids wouldn't that be a much better feeling than going out and losing to WC twice and Melbourne just to secure an extra pick at the end of the first round.

Another thing, even if we were to lose enough games to qualify for a PP there is still a real possibility that both Melbourne and WC could end up below us on the ladder and win enough games to qualify both for PP prior to round 1 which would mean a 4-5 win season for us would gain us pick 5 at best and if we're going to end up with that we may as well win as many as possible along the way home and still get pick 5 anyway.

 

[Kyusss]

create an attitude amongst every player that losing is never an option in this jumper, build a culture that dosent accept losing, but play any kid who deserves it.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

dude....i think you need to wake up a little.....the situation has gone way past talking flags....we are now in i would suggest the last throws of this club...another 20 in the wilderness and you can board up the place....we need to be a long term viable footy team on the field or we are toast...that means putting flag dreams on the back burner and looking at taking a discount and just playing finals, big games etc for an extended period. If the flag comes it comes...right now...that aint what we have to have.

I think that perhaps you need to wake up a little. You're looking for a long term viable footy team but how long term are we talking? Our #2 draft pick this year will be hitting his straps in around 5 or 6 years time.

Effectively you're saying that we are building the clubs future on our 2009 draft pick. Do you want to lose because you think this years pick will allow us to play consistent finals? What, don't you think Deledio, Cotchin, Tambling, Jackson, Vickery, Foley, etc etc don't hold anything for the future?

You want real talent and then you look at the top 20 draft picks we've got over the years and the way they have been handled? What's the point in getting good picks when they develop into shit?

A lot of players have the skill, its all to do with confidence. Get the team to win some decent games this year and get some confidence into the players. Round 2 and beyond has been a failure this year, because we were kicked down so early.

 

[Tambo]

Going on my definition of Tanking is , playing to lose. As simple as that hoping to win so we end up as low down the ladder as possible.

This to me is unacceptable, at no point should loosing a game be acceptable. If put kids in over older player becuase they deserve the spot , no issue but putting a kid in to lose a match.

Tigers show some pride.

Spot on.

Its easy for the supporters to believe in loosing. But for the players and coaches themselves, it is not acceptable.

Tanking by utilizing a huge bunch of kids can cause negetive impact on the kids own career.

-Loosing culture
-Physically not ready
-mentally not ready.
etc

It's not the way to finish the year. We need to be cautious of who we develop, the timing and how often we bring in an undevloped player.

As a personal opinion, we have so many Under 24's etc who are in already our 22 who have room for further development.

 

[emperor]

list management mode: yes.
outright tanking: no.

Nicely put Dark Lord

 

[CoggaRules]

I think that perhaps you need to wake up a little. You're looking for a long term viable footy team but how long term are we talking? Our #2 draft pick this year will be hitting his straps in around 5 or 6 years time.

Effectively you're saying that we are building the clubs future on our 2009 draft pick. Do you want to lose because you think this years pick will allow us to play consistent finals? What, don't you think Deledio, Cotchin, Tambling, Jackson, Vickery, Foley, etc etc don't hold anything for the future?

You want real talent and then you look at the top 20 draft picks we've got over the years and the way they have been handled? What's the point in getting good picks when they develop into shit?

A lot of players have the skill, its all to do with confidence. Get the team to win some decent games this year and get some confidence into the players. Round 2 and beyond has been a failure this year, because we were kicked down so early.

another muppet who talks in his sleep...
first off yeah Deledio(1), Cotchin(2), maybe Tambling(4), maybe Jackson(30 whatever), maybe Vickery(8), and Foley(rookie)...hold something....
but seeing as we are on the money with 1s or 2s...have a strange feeling that addind another 1 or 2 might....just might hold us in better stead....i mean...how ridiculous is that? adding another top 2 pick...might just add to our fire power over the stretch....its laughable isnt it? Fool...and while you are it....can you give us the etc etcs you left out....this will be good..

 

[Khan]

Why cogga because someone doesnt agree with you do you feel the need to deingrate them. I dont call you an idiot, stupid etc etc.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Morton, Nahas, Riewoldt, Collins, Graham, McGuane, Moore, Thursfield, Rance...

When do we stop tanking CoggaRules? When we have a list of top 10 draft picks?

EDIT: Exactly right Khan. CoggaRules can't make a half decent argument so to fill the gaps he fills it with insults.

 

[alb4life]

u dont have to tank. just draft smart

 

[Barnzy]

There seems to be a difference between what we call tanking.

To me tanking is when you plan to lose regardless of the side you put out on the park. I don't want that for Richmond, never have and never will.

Except that to my knowledge doesn't happen. It's still 99% who you play that determines if your tanking or not. The last few rounds West Coast have been playing kids, kids and more kids, the coaches know what they're doing. By my book if we play kids over older players (which is what should happen) that's tanking. If you have options that are better than the kids that could win you the game easier and neglect them to plan for the future and such, that's tanking. Also depends what kids are played and whether they're ready for AFL or not.