Recommitted Todd Goldstein

[reload141]

Yeah no way we trade the #1 for 29yr old Goldstein and I love him as a player, I would do the 4 + 6 for 1 if GCS accepted and trade 6 and a 2nd for Goldy but that's about it.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

As an Essendon fan, bias comes naturally to me.

But did you really just suggest Darcy Moore wouldn't get a game for North and then list Durdin and McKay as two of the reasons why?

That's like me saying we have Luenberger and Shaun McKernan so Goldy wouldn't get a game for us.

As for Goldy, I think he's worth an early first rounder and possibly a player, or maybe two late first rounders.

I didn't say that... I said we already have 4 ruck forwards and we have more pressing issues than over paying for someone who can't get on the park.

I said that the output difference between Moore and our starting tall forwards is borderline nonexistent.

Durdin/McKay are 19/18 (both of them are yet to play) - I'm not sure what their potential is, but I know we spent 1st rounders on them, which is more than you spent on Luey and Corey's brother.

I also read someone that Darcy Moore is now Michael Jordan... LOL.....Eek!

Biggest.please mate. ever!

 

[peppy la pew]

I'm trying to trade him!?

What am I, a people smuggler? A sex slave manager?

God forbid you should have a mother like me... I feel like the madam pimping out my hottest **** to a bunch of Scottish Rabbis.

Oh Lordy

 

[HawkMongrel]

Surely coming to Hawthorn like every other player in the league this trade period.

I can't wait for our 92-strong squad to start training for next season.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

Ah yes, the Portland Trailblazers theory of recruiting. 'We are not going to take Michael Jordan in the draft because we already have a shooting guard on the roster'. Makes total sense. Good luck with that, it worked out really well for them.
Time to put the blue and white glasses down. Moore projects to be better than all of those guys you mentioned. Smart recruiters wouldn't pass up the opportunity to sign a star level talent because they have good, solid role players or young, unproven kids on the roster already, no matter where they were drafted. You take the star and sort out the redundancy later. It's like saying Hawthorn wouldn't take Marcus Bontempelli because they already have Liam Shiels, Jono O'Rourke and Kieran Lovell. Makes no sense.
Moore walks into NM's best 18. He isn't going to be a fwd/ruck going forward. He'll be a fulltime KPF as soon as next year. Collingwood have used him in the ruck (very sparingly) based on need, not on preference.

I'm glad you brought basketball into it...

What did the cavs give up to sign 29 year LeBron?

You know, he was the 2nd best player in his league last year too according to MVP voting.

Did they sell the farm for next 2-3 years or were they projecting 7 years into the future?

Darcy Moore isn't Michael ****ing Jordan, he ain't no Wayne Carey/Buddy Franklin cross. He is a good young player, behind the likes of Patton/Hogan/Daniher/Brown/McCartin

To even bring him up in the same sentence as Michael Jordan is a ****ing disgrace. He is a Manute Bol at the moment.

 

[Prochard123]

Oh Lordy

Im starting to question his sanity...

 

[bombreys]

I didn't say that... I said we already have 4 ruck forwards and we have more pressing issues than over paying for someone who can't get on the park.

I said that the output difference between Moore and our starting tall forwards is borderline nonexistent.

Durdin/McKay are 19/18 (both of them are yet to play) - I'm not sure what their potential is, but I know we spent 1st rounders on them, which is more than you spent on Luey and Corey's brother.

I also read someone that Darcy Moore is now Michael Jordan... LOL.....Eek!

Biggest.please mate. ever!

Getting a bit off topic, but have you actually seen Moore play?

Also, hasn't Durdin been injured ever since he was drafted? But yet you don't rate Moore because he's only played 17 games in his second season as a 19 year old..?

If you put all of Norths & Coll's forwards together and said pick any two, I'm taking Moore & Wood.

Goldy's a gun, everyone knows that. But to suggest Darcy Moore would hold zero value to North and wouldn't get a game is wildly inaccurate.

 

[king rising]

Yeah no way we trade the #1 for 29yr old Goldstein and I love him as a player, I would do the 4 + 6 for 1 if GCS accepted and trade 6 and a 2nd for Goldy but that's about it.

i'd trade Goldstein for pick 6 + a second rounder. Good deal for both sides

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

i'd trade Goldstein for pick 6 + a second rounder. Good deal for both sides

So would I.

 

[peppy la pew]

Im starting to question his sanity...

At best he is very, very random

 

[Tbone McGraw]

I'm glad you brought basketball into it...

What did the cavs give up to sign 29 year LeBron?

You know, he was the 2nd best player in his league last year too according to MVP voting.

Did they sell the farm for next 2-3 years or were they projecting 7 years into the future?

Darcy Moore isn't Michael ******* Jordan, he ain't no Wayne Carey/Buddy Franklin cross. He is a good young player, behind the likes of Patton/Hogan/Daniher/Brown/McCartin

To even bring him up in the same sentence as Michael Jordan is a ******* disgrace. He is a Manute Bol at the moment.

Correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't Lebron a free agent?

If so, this post was even worse than i first thought.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

Correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't Lebron a free agent?

If so, this post was even worse than i first thought.

LOL

You're right... They sold the farm for Love.

My bad.

Getting a bit off topic, but have you actually seen Moore play?

Also, hasn't Durdin been injured ever since he was drafted? But yet you don't rate Moore because he's only played 17 games in his second season as a 19 year old..?

If you put all of Norths & Coll's forwards together and said pick any two, I'm taking Moore & Wood.

Goldy's a gun, everyone knows that. But to suggest Darcy Moore would hold zero value to North and wouldn't get a game is wildly inaccurate.

Durdin was injured in his first season and was better as the season went on. VFL isn't exactly the easiest grade to be a tall forward given the windswept nature of the grounds and the fact that our squad was decimated so there was literally no one to get it down to him.

If Waite plays on it's Brown, Wood, Daw and Waite.

I live in Singapore mate so no, never seen him live at the ground. But I have seen him play on TV and play very well.

At this stage in his career, he would be behind Ben Brown though, surely. Not saying in the future he won't go past him, but right now they are very similar players I would have thought. Brown is only 23 too has some development of his own to go through ; not as if he has reached his potential.

How would Brown go with Collingwood's midfield kicking it to him?

Edit.... Moore is nearly 21, not 19.

Can we start getting the ages of players correct?!

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=13&type=A&pid1=4023&pid2=3964&fid1=C&fid2=C

 

[freofc1994]

If the Cavs sold the farm for Love as you say then the business was excellent. A finals appearance and a championship in 2 years. Ultimately what they were trying to achieve. Give it up

 

[cdcanman]

I didn't say that... I said we already have 4 ruck forwards and we have more pressing issues than over paying for someone who can't get on the park.

Really?

to us he is worth absolutely nothing and wouldn't get a game.

Speaking of things that people really didn't say

I also read someone that Darcy Moore is now Michael Jordan... LOL.....Eek!

I certainly never said this. I just compared your decision making process of not taking a potential star player because you have some good players who play the same position as being very, very similar to Portland's decision to not draft Jordan. It was a valid example.

You really need to stop. You're not handling yourself particularly well.
Have a break. Come back tomorrow, and get amongst it again. Nobody will mention today

LeBron James...that was pretty funny
The attempted Kevin Love save...also

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I must apologise for arjen, he's a bit too eccentric at times and his views aren't exactly mainstream on the north board, but it's entertaining in a way.

 

[54dreamsalive]

Got a message for you North Supporters.. Ready

Your rebuilding

Take the picks boys his not playing in your next finals game

 

[Kangas_11]

Got a message for you North Supporters.. Ready

Your rebuilding

Take the picks boys his not playing in your next finals game

Very well said...

The Dogs will offer pick 15-18 and Hrovat for Goldy.
Hrovat already had physical.

North might even take Minson as coverage.

North are hell bent on getting 4 picks in the top 30 this year.

We may be rebuilding, but we aren't idiots. 15-18 + Hrovat is just insulting.

 

[cdcanman]

I must apologise for arjen, he's a bit too eccentric at times and his views aren't exactly mainstream on the north board, but it's entertaining in a way.

No need to apologise. All clubs have em. Check the Jaeger O'Meara thread and you'll find plenty from my club
Shame, I bet he's an alright fella, just gets a bit carried away when discussing the blue and white

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

That's nothing, his favourite whipping boy, Sam Gibson just re-signed for another year. He'll be absolutely ropable now.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Got a message for you North Supporters.. Ready

Your rebuilding

Take the picks boys his not playing in your next finals game

If you're going to go with the enlarged bold text and the condescending smiley, at least get your grammar correct.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Who cares how good someone is going to be in 5 years time?

That's a factor that determines trade value.

If a player is going to be retired in five years then that's not as useful as a player being in their prime.

I'm not saying he will be in the top 5 most valuable players the game in 5 years time.

I know. You're saying he's one of the 5 most valuable currently, while for some reason disregarding age as a factor in trade value.

You bizarrely disregard the fact that teams can trade for the now, for next next 3 years.

They do both. But as players get closer to 30, that has an effect on their trade value. You still don't seem to grasp this.

You keep bringing up supercoach scores, because you have nothing left... I merely used that as another independent data source to add weight to my argument that he is a top 5 player in the game and then from that point of strength argued how someone who is a top 5 player may very well be in the most 5 valuable.

The reality is that SuperCoach scores have nothing to do with trade value, so it was a stupid thing to say. It was an irrelevant piece of information. I keep bringing it up because it's funny that you started off talking about 'the concept of value' and how it's defined by what another team would give in exchange but then ended up on a ridiculous tangent about SuperCoach scores. It's like you didn't understand your initial argument. That amuses me.

I looked for any independent data to assist my argument.

Even if it was irrelevant.

I also listed a top 10 most valuable earlier in the thread that once again you bizarrely leave out in favour of going the supercoach route.

Because talking about SuperCoach scores was more jarringly stupid. But if you're talking here about the "official player ratings", I've addressed that previously as well.

And I refer back to my original post that you don't understand VALUE.

OK. Tell me. Is it determined by SuperCoach scores and a magic list that ranks every player in the league?

Because that's what you've argued so far. And putting the word 'value' in capitals doesn't make that less self-evidently ridiculous.

Players aren't always a ******* futures contract, there are some clubs who want to win NOW.

Sure, but those players in their late 20s are unlikely to be deemed the most valuable in the league. Because they have less footy left in them.

Were Sydney thinking about Buddy at age 34-36 when they signed him for 10 years 3 years ago?

What did Sydney trade out to get Franklin? Because we're talking about trade value, aren't we?

In terms of the financial structure of the contract, I think they would absolutely have weighed the pros and cons of offering such a long deal. If Franklin retires earlier, that will leave a hole in their cap. But they decided that's what they needed to do to get that deal over the line and we'll have to wait and see if it comes back to bite them.

What is the relevance of this to Goldstein supposedly being one of the 5 most valuable players in the league?

What about Hawthorn when they gave up two 1st rounders for Burgoyne at 28 on crutches and bone on bone???

I thought they gave up pick 9 and Mark Williams.

But what is your question here exactly?

This obsession with 5-10 year into the future outcomes of yours is borderline ridiculous given the rest of your arguments are well made.

It's merely a recognition that trade value is influenced by how much footy a player has left. That's a factor – it's so obvious that I'm a little surprised it's a point of contention and therefore needs to be stated explicitly.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Very well said...

The Dogs will offer pick 15-18 and Hrovat for Goldy.
Hrovat already had physical.

North might even take Minson as coverage.

North are hell bent on getting 4 picks in the top 30 this year.

Why would we re sign TC then go after Goldy. Dont add up.

 

[Prochard123]

That's a factor that determines trade value.

If a player is going to be retired in five years then that's not as useful as a player being in their prime.

I know. You're saying he's one of the 5 most valuable currently, while for some reason disregarding age as a factor in trade value.

They do both. But as players get closer to 30, that has an effect on their trade value. You still don't seem to grasp this.

The reality is that SuperCoach scores have nothing to do with trade value, so it was a stupid thing to say. It was an irrelevant piece of information. I keep bringing it up because it's funny that you started off talking about 'the concept of value' and how it's defined by what another team would give in exchange but then ended up on a ridiculous tangent about SuperCoach scores. It's like you didn't understand your initial argument. That amuses me.

Even if it was irrelevant.

Because talking about SuperCoach scores was more jarringly stupid. But if you're talking here about the "official player ratings", I've addressed that previously as well.

OK. Tell me. Is it determined by SuperCoach scores and a magic list that ranks every player in the league?

Because that's what you've argued so far. And putting the word 'value' in capitals doesn't make that less self-evidently ridiculous.

Sure, but those players in their late 20s are unlikely to be deemed the most valuable in the league. Because they have less footy left in them.

What did Sydney trade out to get Franklin? Because we're talking about trade value, aren't we?

In terms of the financial structure of the contract, I think they would absolutely have weighed the pros and cons of offering such a long deal. If Franklin retires earlier, that will leave a hole in their cap. But they decided that's what they needed to do to get that deal over the line and we'll have to wait and see if it comes back to bite them.

What is the relevance of this to Goldstein supposedly being one of the 5 most valuable players in the league?

I thought they gave up pick 9 and Mark Williams.

But what is your question here exactly?

It's merely a recognition that trade value is influenced by how much footy a player has left. That's a factor – it's so obvious that I'm a little surprised it's a point of contention and therefore needs to be stated explicitly.

Actually I think Supercoach does have some bearing in determining a player's value. Often, the scores derived from stats are free from bias and more accurately portrays the performance of a player. Flashy players are often visually appealing, causing them to be overrated, such as WHE, Cameron (Adelaide) and Bradley Hill. Sure they can "break the game open" very occasionally. However, if it's only a few times and the production simply isn't there, then you can't give them a pass on their game purely based on those 1 or 2 plays. Supercoach also takes into consideration pressure, 1%ers, bounces which we usually omit from our evaluation of a player's performance. There's a reason why supercoach uses a systematic program instead of having a human allocating scores for each play, because we are in nature, heavily biased, and our instincts as spectators wanting exciting football often clouds our judgement.

 

[TwentyNine]

Got a message for you North Supporters.. Ready

Your rebuilding

Take the picks boys his not playing in your next finals game

*you're

*he's

 

[pantskyle]

I see Goldstein as being worth somewhere between picks 10 and 15, a team in premiership mode without a ruckman of his level would be very interested.

He is a very good ruckman.