and who will ruck for North in his place?
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Enough talk around to have a thread IMO.
No team wants to lose it's champions but sometimes in a rebuild it's necessary.
Who would want him and what's he worth?
Was there something wrong with this thread?
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/todd-goldstein.1070479/page-8
Sorry, someone else ITT said he was 30.
That changes thing slightly in his favour
OK... That's your issue.
We got to the bottom of it.
Gawn had a better year but Goldstein is the superior footballer.
In regards to the algorithm that is used to rank the players, I don't know if it's right or wrong, all I know is if you are ranked 6th after your worst year in 3 years, there is a good chance that you're comfortably a top 5 player based upon any metric you wish to base it on.
In terms of value, I think because of his endurance and the fact he goes forward and kicks goals, he is more valuable than Gawn and yes in the top 5 most valuable players in the AFL.
Bont
Lynch
Danger
Buddy
Goldy
-----
Kennedy
Rance
Fyfe
Roughy
In no particular order.
You put any of those 5 players into a team outside the 8(except Brisbane) and they probably make finals.
That's how I see it anyway, I'm quite often wrong in life, but that's how I measure best.
Goldstein is one of the 5 most valuable players in the comp?In regards to the algorithm that is used to rank the players, I don't know if it's right or wrong, all I know is if you are ranked 6th after your worst year in 3 years, there is a good chance that you're comfortably a top 5 player based upon any metric you wish to base it on.
In terms of value, I think because of his endurance and the fact he goes forward and kicks goals, he is more valuable than Gawn and yes in the top 5 most valuable players in the AFL.
Good point. His age means there is only a few teams that would be willing to give up what hes worth.Would be worth the Bulldogs first pick or a top ten pick plus a good first 22 player,
Really would be worth two first rounders between 10-14 and a fringe player to the dogs imo.
It's what they are missing
Goldstein is one of the 5 most valuable players in the comp?
I don't think many would agree with that.
Would be worth the Bulldogs first pick or a top ten pick plus a good first 22 player,
Really would be worth two first rounders between 10-14 and a fringe player to the dogs imo.
It's what they are missing
Of course. And how does that make him top 5?His value is determined by what a club is willing to pay.
Not what you, others or I think.
This analogy is unnecessary. Do you think you're revealing some hidden truth here?Think of it like a Monet... You have 1 interested party and it's value is $10m, but you have two Russian oligarchs competing and a Chinese billionaire who wants to buy it for his daughter and it could easily be 'worth' $25m.
His value is determined by what a club is willing to pay. Not what you, others or I think. Sound familiar?My assertion is if he played for the Gold Coast in 2017, they would make finals and if he went to the dogs, they would be $4 for the 2017 flag.
Rubbish. It's perfectly straightforward. You've just pulled 'top five' out of thin air and then added some other baseless assertions.I'm not sure some of you quite grasp the concept of value.
Of course. And how does that make him top 5?
This analogy is unnecessary. Do you think you're revealing some hidden truth here?
Of course trade value is tied to what another party is willing to give up. I don't see how that puts Goldstein in the top 5.
His value is determined by what a club is willing to pay. Not what you, others or I think. Sound familiar?
Rubbish. It's perfectly straightforward. You've just pulled 'top five' out of thin air and then added some other baseless assertions.
Don't try to tell people they don't understand the 'concept of value', as though it's so nuanced and complicated, when you're just waffling.
His value is determined by what a club is willing to pay.
Not what you, others or I think.
Think of it like a Monet... You have 1 interested party and it's value is $10m, but you have two Russian oligarchs competing and a Chinese billionaire who wants to buy it for his daughter and it could easily be 'worth' $25m.
He is worth a lot more to some clubs than he would be to the big birds because you already have a top 5 ruck in the comp. Well you had, whether he returns to that mantle is debatable given the reliance on his spring post ACL.
My assertion is if he played for the Gold Coast in 2017, they would make finals and if he went to the dogs, they would be $4 for the 2017 flag.
If he left us, we'd absolutely finish bottom 4.
I'm not sure some of you quite grasp the concept of value.
Correct.
I'd happily take Stringer and their 1st.
Of course. And how does that make him top 5?
Why is any of this relevant?He was the 2nd best player in the game last year.
Finished 2nd in AFL MVP voting.
He split up with his missus leaving 3 kids at home and had a down year.
On official player ranking he is currently @ #6
Again, I thought we were talking about his trade value. Have I got that wrong?Waffle or no waffle, I haven't called your assessment incorrect, you're entilted to your own opinion but I think if all players were lined up against the wall and 2 captains were selecting their teams he would go in the first 5.
What complete rubbish.The only people who are questioning this are Melbourne fans (Gawn) and Big bird fans (Nic Nat).
Most other supporters accept he is the top handful of footballers in the game.
Wait, is your whole argument based on that list?http://m.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings
Do you really think JPK and Gray are more valuable?
Please.
Why is any of this relevant?
The "official player ranking"? Are you kidding? What does his domestic situation have to do with anything?
Just so we're clear, we're talking about his trade value, right?
Again, I thought we were talking about his trade value. Have I got that wrong?
What happened to your line that: "His value is determined by what a club is willing to pay. Not what you, others or I think."
Apparently you've shelved that for an imaginary scenario where we're picking teams in the playground. At least be consistent.
What complete rubbish.
You claimed he is one of the five most valuable players in the league, bleated some banalities about the 'concept of value' and then simply restated your view in a couple of different ways without substantiating it at all.
Sorry, are you now using SuperCoach ratings to determine trade value? Are you kidding?He went into the year as the highest ranked player on Supercoach.. That works for me, how's that?
But you already established that trade value is determined by what another club would give up in exchange.But I'm not sure how else anyone can measure the value of a player other than a combination of independant sources:
1. Official player ratings
2. MVP voting from the previous season
3. Average supercoach scores
You said the opposite previously.Yes it's all arbitrary, but so is your opinion.
You say he's worth two top 10 selections but really you're just pulling that out of thin air. That would be a lot for a guy who will turn 29 next year.He is IMO, worth 2 x top 10 selections. He is contracted and if another team wants him they would have to pay overs in order to get him, irrespective of your own opinion, notwithstanding the fact that you argue your irrelevant point very well..
Sure. That doesn't make SuperCoach scores a justifiable gauge.The fact is, there is not a definitive measure of a players worth until after the point at which they are traded or selected in the draft.
No need for general counsel. But it would help if you didn't contradict yourself or completely ignore the age of players, despite it being an obvious factor in determining trade value. So maybe you do need general counsel after all?That's as definitive as you are going to get... Do I need to get the general counsel in to go over my post in order to clear this up further, your honour?
Is this a joke?The ratings are based on the last 3 years, not a single season. So yes, there are some parculiar rankings, but if Danger is at 1, it's clearly on the right track.
Sorry, are you now using SuperCoach ratings to determine trade value? Are you kidding?
You started by bleating about the 'concept of value' and how it is determined by what another club would give up in exchange. Now you're talking about SuperCoach. It's hilarious.
But you already established that trade value is determined by what another club would give up in exchange.
You said the opposite previously.
Again, we're talking about trade value, right? We're talking about what another club would give up in return. So what does SuperCoach have to do with anything?
You say he's worth two top 10 selections but really you're just pulling that out of thin air. That would be a lot for a guy who will turn 29 next year.
But your absurd emphasis on SuperCoach ratings and the "official player ratings" doesn't take age into, does it? Don't you think that's a bit of a problem given that age is a factor in determining trade value?
I would argue Fyfe, Bontompelli, Hogan, Lynch and Dangerfield all have higher trade value than Goldstein. That's five right there.
Sure. That doesn't make SuperCoach scores a better gauge.
No need for general counsel. But it would help if you didn't contradict yourself or completely ignore the age of players, despite it being an obvious factor in determining trade value. So maybe you do need general counsel after all?
Is this a joke?
You agree with the guy at No.1 so that automatically makes the rest of the rankings a sensible guide to trade value?
Let me add to the list, assuming the buy er has no list deficiency.Sorry, are you now using SuperCoach ratings to determine trade value? Are you kidding?
You started by bleating about the 'concept of value' and how it is determined by what another club would give up in exchange. Now you're talking about SuperCoach. It's hilarious.
But you already established that trade value is determined by what another club would give up in exchange.
You said the opposite previously.
Again, we're talking about trade value, right? We're talking about what another club would give up in return. So what does SuperCoach have to do with anything?
You say he's worth two top 10 selections but really you're just pulling that out of thin air. That would be a lot for a guy who will turn 29 next year.
But your absurd emphasis on SuperCoach ratings and the "official player ratings" doesn't take age into account, does it? Don't you think that's a bit of a problem given that age is a factor in determining trade value?
I would argue Fyfe, Bontempelli, Hogan, Lynch and Dangerfield all have higher trade value than Goldstein. That's five right there.
Sure. That doesn't make SuperCoach scores a justifiable gauge.
No need for general counsel. But it would help if you didn't contradict yourself or completely ignore the age of players, despite it being an obvious factor in determining trade value. So maybe you do need general counsel after all?
Is this a joke?
You agree with the guy at No.1 so that automatically makes the rest of the rankings a sensible guide to trade value?
So Priddis over Lynch and Zorko over Hogan. That's solid. Can't argue with that.
I'd like to hear more from you about the 'concept of value' because your views are clearly finely honed on that subject.
But in your opening treatise about the 'concept of value', you already established that value is determined by what another club would be willing to give up in exchange. And I agree - that goes without saying.Mate it's not an exam, you simply asked how does one determine value, I've given you a whole bunch of independent data on how one would evaluate a players worth.
I'll settle for pointing out that your arguments are nonsensical and contradictory.Neither of us can be proven correct or incorrect, so it's all just a waste of bandwith.
You're just pulling things out of thin air again. Not sure what Stevie J has to do with it or how this demonstrates that Goldstein is one of the five most valuable players in the league.GWS offered two top 10's for Stevie J a few years ago, based on that, I'm prepared to believe that Goldsteins value at a similar age to SJ is considerably more than what you think it is.
I don't recall making any statement to this effect.You are entitled to think he is worth a late first rounder and fringe player, if that is what you believe.
Like I said, he'll be 29 next year. But for some reason you omit age entirely from your assessment of trade value. It's a bizarre oversight.He turned 28 on July 1. Not exactly an old man, could still have 7 seasons left.
Absolute crap. Ruckmen play their best footy post 30..
Like Maric, Minson and Jamar this year?