Yes fair enough, there were immediately others I thought of, but Hawkins has played a lot more games than them so his totals are higher but averages are lower than those that came to mind.
A testament to his longevity.
Tom Hawkins 350 games - What is his standing in the game?
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A testament to his longevity.
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I don't think so. His goals in the 3rd were really just finishing off others work. A replacement could've done that.
His unbelievable play was early in the last where he just killed Reid again and again. But Geelong's midfield were swarming by then and Collingwood looked out of punches. I highly doubt that changed the result.
As great as his last quarter in 2011 was I'd say his crucial goal in the last quarter of 2009 and the first 2 goals in 2022 were probably more important to the result of those grand finals.
There were still weaknesses in the forward line but in 2019, the arrival of Rohan and the move of Ablett to the forward pocket helped Hawkins too. Still, in finals there was a lack of elite crumbers and another strong key forward to take the burden off Hawkins. Couples with some scrappy ball movement by sides that were susceptible to pressure, and we really left Hawkins in a tough spot for a lot of finals. That's why his record in finals on the surface doesn't look amazing.
Plug peak or late career Hawkins into the '07-'11 side and finals and he'd have been kicking bags of 6 or more routinely.
This is the definition of a contested mark:
When a player takes a mark under physical pressure of an opponent or in a pack
I would argue from watching hawkins and some of the others on that list take their marks that Hawkins has a much higher proportion of his marks taken from what most would affiliate with a contested mark (wrestling 1v1 or pack marks).
I would imagine most of franklins are leading marks with physical pressure from a defender behind, same with tom lynch etc.
Tom Lynch is a beast of a mark, definetely takes a lot in that pack or contested 2v1 or 1v1 style above his head, but yeh guys like Franklin would have a lot on the lead.
I wonder how close a defender has to be behind for them to consider it a contested mark?
For me if you take a mark unless there's another hand/body on you, it's not a contested mark if you take it without any contact on the lead.
The ones I thought would be up there definetely are, but they're high on averages compared to guys who have played longer who are higher on totals.
Nah, it's worse than that. Looks like he spends about 90 minutes on it before kick off.
(Billy Birmingham Richie Benaud voice): Melbourne are gonna kick off? What ****en game are we playing here?
Shane Heard
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He’s no Lloydy
In hindsight could Lloydy have gone on a bit longer and cracked 1000 goals?
He went from a 60 plus goal season to 35 from 18 games in 2009 but then pulled the plug.
If he played 10-15 years later he'd have been a 300 plus gamer for sure.
Shane Heard
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Yeah well you obviously don’t remember the coach Knights situation…it’s ugly
Hawkins is a good player. No
Doubt about it.
But Lloydy is and was the quintessential full forward superstar.
YouTube highlights go on and on forever.
Just a beautiful player.
Hawkins standing in the game?
He's the best full forward since Matty Lloyd. He's got Buddy covered because Buddy was a 6'6 flanker rather than a key forward.
Hawkins has been the piece that GFC's built their teams and Flags around. Without him the last 3 flags don't happen.
Great player, great servant of the game.
He's the best full forward since Matty Lloyd. He's got Buddy covered because Buddy was a 6'6 flanker rather than a key forward.
Hawkins has been the piece that GFC's built their teams and Flags around. Without him the last 3 flags don't happen.
Great player, great servant of the game.
No complaints here, I loved watching Lloydy play.
Trying to stop those two in your defensive 50 would be impossible.
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Anyone can see he uses his arms.
Defenders are not allowed to make front on contact either which doesn’t JUST mean they aren’t allowed to run face-first into their opponent, it means they can’t go into reverse and back into them. But the better defenders and less clumsy ones are good enough to get in front and edge their way backwards and make front on contact without it looking like they are and equally the strongest forwards, Hawkins, Dixon when he isn’t playing like a schoolboy etc, are good enough to hold their ground and get their opponent out of the way. It’s not string theory
Shane Heard
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Yep ..Lloyd was lean and could jump like a gazelle.
Hawkins more weight and just a massive unit of a man.
His snap goals in that GF out of the ruck were sublime.
A magnificent Australian rules forward big man
Shane Heard
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That’s just complete rubbish mate.
The only superstar forward who never bothered with hands pushing was John Coleman.
Everyone from Lockett to Dunstall, Lloyd pushed at various stages.
That’s footy.
He isn’t behind Fev. That’s crazy
Will also add to this he is also second all time for goal assists... Which id predominantly midfielders or a few smallish forwards.
So 13th all time for goals kicked, no2 dor all time contested marks, and no2 all time for goal assists..
Freak of a career
Upon reflection I think Hawkins has revolutionised the way key forwards are seen and valued.
Before hawkins, the idea of a key forwards role was solely to kick goals. The idea of anything else was absurd.
Hawkins has carved out a career as a 197cm 105kg monster key forward who has focused his game around setting up and bringing other players into the game. In doing this he currently sits no2 on the all time goal assist tally while also bearing down 800 career goals shortly.
If he had of gone back and set sail for goal with each mark and opportunity inside fifty, he would be over 1,000 goals by now.
Before hawkins, the idea of a key forwards role was solely to kick goals. The idea of anything else was absurd.
Hawkins has carved out a career as a 197cm 105kg monster key forward who has focused his game around setting up and bringing other players into the game. In doing this he currently sits no2 on the all time goal assist tally while also bearing down 800 career goals shortly.
If he had of gone back and set sail for goal with each mark and opportunity inside fifty, he would be over 1,000 goals by now.
Thought he was done several years ago when suffering back issues I believe?
Since then, he has looked healthy and dangerous
One of the best team focused key forwards since Dustall
Since then, he has looked healthy and dangerous
One of the best team focused key forwards since Dustall
You would be deceptively suprised to know that hawkins was an elite junior high jump athlete ( won state level).
After 2013 he had to stop due to ongoing back problems.. Has been grounded ever since.
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Amazing
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Haven't read the rest of the thread, but I reckon Hawkins has probably given up 100-200 goals through his unselfishness in an effort to bring his teammates into the game.
Aside from his obvious skill, longevity and footy nous, I think its his ability to see the game through the lens of a being a teammate first that I will remember him for.
It is his contribution in this area that has in part led to Geelong's success of the last 15-20 years.
Aside from his obvious skill, longevity and footy nous, I think its his ability to see the game through the lens of a being a teammate first that I will remember him for.
It is his contribution in this area that has in part led to Geelong's success of the last 15-20 years.
Maybe not revolutionised, but I will say he has the best ruck craft of any pure KPF I've seen. His ability inside 50 at stoppages to take it from the ruck and dispose or take a shot, or hit out to advantage is better than a lot of genuine rucks.
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