Absolutely. He is very close. Might be one that takes a full career for me to fully embrace his standing but i did think long and hard about whether to add him this year. The fact that full forward types dont nudge the 100 goals anymore makes my judging of the them more of a full career perspective and how they went relative to other forwards of their eras. An example of this is how I only added Hawkins and Jack Roo last year despite long careers being in the top handful of forwards going round.
Loved seeing Winston appear here. Loved it.
Good spotting but the omissions are deliberate. You will notice that Ablett Sr hasn’t got Hawthorn next him and nor does Dougie Hawkins have Fitzroy next to him either.
That’s not an unreasonable take on Heeney. I think I’m very patient in not elevating players to a top 100 position early in their careers to avoid the recency bias. I’m very cognisant of the influence it can have. I made sure I waited until Heeney had two consistent seasons to iron-out the ‘flashiness’ that he had but there’s no doubting his all-round game now, which adds to his match-winning capabilities. His move to midfield has also influenced my thinking, in that he is that rare beast who can excel as a forward and mid. It wasn’t a flippant decision to add him. He’s got all the attributes, is exciting, and has brought consistency to his game. However, he is teetering on the edge of this list though, so a bad season next season would easily see him replaced.
Who had Abraham near this list? Certainly not me…
I think the point being made is inconsistent application of logic here. Your list isn't internally consistent, and given the length of time that you've had (years and years) to refine it, it really should be better.
I like you have made long posts in this thread too and we should just admit it's a bad list.
For a start, I haven’t based Heeney’s selection on flashiness. I was at pains in my last post to explain that he has moved beyond that. This alone makes your whole diatribe nonsense. I have given him time to display a consistency of output. His flashy traits are now regular traits.
Gray was on the list 12 months or so ago and would be literally a handful of spots back. Again, my somewhat subjective take on watching players for 45 years, is that Isaac Heeney is producing a level of quality that impresses me marginally more than the consistent season upon season career of Gray. However, somewhat objectively, I needed to see it shown to the degree he had over that last 2-3 years rather than in flashes. A season of rubbish in 2025 would tarnish that view without a doubt. I also want this list to be dynamically changing rather than just based on end of career status. Heeney and Merrett are in the conversation as best players in the comp at present and thoroughly deserve consideration at this point. But I also recognise that others would prefer Gray, Wayne Johnston, Rance, or even Tony Shaw. Again, you might be right in that I’ve jumped the gun on Heeney. But his level of performance has been eye-catching and I feel like he’s found his mojo as an elite footballer. Let’s see how it pans out over the next few years. I’ll be fully hands up in acknowledgement of my misreading of this if he falls off a cliff
‘A bad list’. Wow, how you can lay claim to being any sort of authority on a person’s take on players I’ve seen and their status in the game is quite bewildering. Every player on this list are champions of the game. All of them. And how we view their impact on the game we love will defy any ****ing criteria you or any ‘expert’ might like to concoct.
"me or any 'expert'" generally looks at things like Brownlows or ranking highly in Brownlows as a good measurement of impact on game. The fact that you seem to be so aggressively defending wild exclusions for many players that have ranked consistently highly on Brownlows nights (such as West) is strange. Not only because almost every footy fan would agree, in the absence of having a perfect memory of the footy played 20 years ago, it does actually represent impact on the game, but also because voting/rating systems are used as a justification/criteria for other players, like when they when a player's MVP, which highlights a lack of consistent application of system when applied to each player.
Wonderful player but id have him behind Cotchin using your reasoning. Cotch was consistent, 3 time BnF in a team with Dusty stealing votes, was a very inspiring captain turning the biggest joke of a club around, had big game performances, finals success a few times. There's a bias at play obviously but still.
For a start, the aggressive tone came from the approach you made to this discussion. It’s not a respectful conversation when you come here and call the list bad and basically unworthy of consideration. That, in itself, is simply disrespectful towards the players (all of them stars of our game) whom I’ve highlighted here. I haven’t aggressively defended anything in this thread up until you decided to disparage the list rather than respect my opinions which are simply based on a love of our game.
Had Cotchin in around the time you won your third premiership. He’s in a mix of about 10-20 either side of 100 who could be considered for a spot. You have a good case for Cotch to be there, no doubt, and I would happily mull over his re-inclusion. There’s not a lot between them and his premierships are a good argument in favour. Merrett, being the only elite player at Essendon despite their sh!tness is a worthy consideration too.
Sad but true. We’re having a robust discussion on the Essendon board here about where our next elite player might come from. I think our most likely option is a kid we found in Richmond’s VFL team a few years back (Duzza)
