List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Scodog10]

Alwyn Davey Jr already??

He had them young! If Tim Kelly’s eldest goes alright he could go close to having an overlapping career (assuming he has a bit of longevity). From memory he had 3 before Geelong drafted him and the oldest is now 6 or 7.

 

[Jafo]

Couldn’t agree more!

I think he just needs to feel the love. The undercurrent of him not being a good inside player should disappear as well because Grundy will improve his hit zones allowing JDG to burst more. The only outstanding query is his dad? I suspect though that him shopping himself in 2020 was less about money than what some suspect because the environment shifted in the hubs. You don’t want to dance on Buckley’s grave, but JDG was a different guy as soon as it was announced that Buckley was on his way out.

There’s only three guys on our list capable of doing what Oliver and Petracca did from the front of stoppages on Saturday night JDG, Elliott and McInnes. To me the ability to burst from the front of stoppages has been missing from our game for almost a decade. It helps you break down the opposition zone because you get even numbers ahead of the ball and you can put up scores quick. I assume Buckley never set us up to do that in order to protect the defence, but for me the only guy that challenges us with that is Nic Nat (2020 EF) because Grundy is a dominant ruckman so we need to get a look at it.

In the context of the overall trade/ draft discussion it’s definitely become my preference to hold him and at least try to find a tall with that 2022 1st.

I think Bianco and IQ could expand your trio in years to come as burst/impact players.

 

[Jafo]

Whilst I know we have a want and a need for a KPF and rightly so, but does anyone else think Oliver Henry will bloom into a good target up forward?

admittedly round 1 and game after that I wasn’t too sure. But he definitely came on after that and add on a few more preseasons and game time I think he’ll be very handy up forward.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

We’d still receive the pick that comes after the first pick tied to us anyway so it’s not really a consideration that’s needed.

Oh ok. Thanks. I didn’t realise that. I just assumed it was based on the pick we held. But that makes sense.

 

[South of the Yarra]

You beat me by 4 minutes.

I was Dilley-dallying around.

This is getting Old. Hobbs and Amiss.Botham are good. So Lever alone.

 

[partypie]

When Sydney did it in the early days of matching and pick trading, they'd clearly lined it up beforehand, so you could possibly do it.

There's a big difference between trading pick 24 out and getting pick 26 back when you still have enough points to match the bid that has come in compared to working a trade for pick 2 when you don't have enough points elsewhere to match the pick 1 bid.

Even for that lower value trade the cost for Sydney was swapping a future 2nd for a future 3rd, so I can't even imagine what we'd be on the hook for to help shift our pick 2 out of the firing line on a pick 1 bid match.

 

[manicpie]

I didn’t even suggest him for us. I just said he’s looking for a new home . I never suggested us chasing him in the original post.

Be careful of the junkyard dog, he bites

 

[loki04]

I'm not sure if I'll be able to stand a year of tanking requests. Particularly if it involves using star mids to justify tanking for a KPF.

Whether its KPF or an Elite mid we land its much of a muchness if they are a talent worthy of the pick.

Bet you wouldn't cry about picking up lance Franklin if you were a Hawks supporter in 04?

Or Roughead..

At the end of the day its not tanking rather just playing youth and developing the list and gameplan we have that will see a year similar to this anyway.

Don't have to be pick 1.

 

[loki04]

And plenty of clubs win flags without an abundance of top 5 picks

Name a club that has won a flag without a top 5 or 6 pick in its 22 (or a FS worthy of top 5 like Hawkins).

Good luck.

 

[sr36]

Couldn’t agree more!

I think he just needs to feel the love. The undercurrent of him not being a good inside player should disappear as well because Grundy will improve his hit zones allowing JDG to burst more. The only outstanding query is his dad? I suspect though that him shopping himself in 2020 was less about money than what some suspect because the environment shifted in the hubs. You don’t want to dance on Buckley’s grave, but JDG was a different guy as soon as it was announced that Buckley was on his way out.

There’s only three guys on our list capable of doing what Oliver and Petracca did from the front of stoppages on Saturday night JDG, Elliott and McInnes. To me the ability to burst from the front of stoppages has been missing from our game for almost a decade. It helps you break down the opposition zone because you get even numbers ahead of the ball and you can put up scores quick. I assume Buckley never set us up to do that in order to protect the defence, but for me the only guy that challenges us with that is Nic Nat (2020 EF) because Grundy is a dominant ruckman so we need to get a look at it.

In the context of the overall trade/ draft discussion it’s definitely become my preference to hold him and at least try to find a tall with

There's a big difference between trading pick 24 out and getting pick 26 back when you still have enough points to match the bid that has come in compared to working a trade for pick 2 when you don't have enough points elsewhere to match the pick 1 bid.

Even for that lower value trade the cost for Sydney was swapping a future 2nd for a future 3rd, so I can't even imagine what we'd be on the hook for to help shift our pick 2 out of the firing line on a pick 1 bid match.

We would have needed to have sorted Daicos points beforehand, God knows what that would have cost, as we'd be looking for an extra 800 without last year's trades. And we would need to have a trade agreed to, but I don't see why any club other than North would say no to future first for pick 2.

That wouldn't be a great scenario, but that's only a hedged bet. You'd only hold it and not trade beforehand if you thought there was a good chance that North werent going to bid.

 

[sr36]

Whether its KPF or an Elite mid we land its much of a muchness if they are a talent worthy of the pick.

Bet you wouldn't cry about picking up lance Franklin if you were a Hawks supporter in 04?

Or Roughead..

At the end of the day its not tanking rather just playing youth and developing the list and gameplan we have that will see a year similar to this anyway.

Don't have to be pick 1.

I certainly wouldn't cry if it was Buddy, but he was drafted in 2004, has there been a KPF drafted since then that has been worth pick 1 or 2, let alone tanking to get them? Maybe the King boys will get there. But the odds of getting a KPF worth tanking for, are really really slim.

 

[loki04]

Couldn’t agree more!

I think he just needs to feel the love. The undercurrent of him not being a good inside player should disappear as well because Grundy will improve his hit zones allowing JDG to burst more. The only outstanding query is his dad? I suspect though that him shopping himself in 2020 was less about money than what some suspect because the environment shifted in the hubs. You don’t want to dance on Buckley’s grave, but JDG was a different guy as soon as it was announced that Buckley was on his way out.

There’s only three guys on our list capable of doing what Oliver and Petracca did from the front of stoppages on Saturday night JDG, Elliott and McInnes. To me the ability to burst from the front of stoppages has been missing from our game for almost a decade. It helps you break down the opposition zone because you get even numbers ahead of the ball and you can put up scores quick. I assume Buckley never set us up to do that in order to protect the defence, but for me the only guy that challenges us with that is Nic Nat (2020 EF) because Grundy is a dominant ruckman so we need to get a look at it.

In the context of the overall trade/ draft discussion it’s definitely become my preference to hold him and at least try to find a tall with that 2022 1st.

Maynard is also capable of burst from stoppage and has the kicking power to follow through for goals outside 50m.

Imo he is wasted in the backlines now.

 

[loki04]

I certainly wouldn't cry if it was Buddy, but he was drafted in 2004, has there been a KPF drafted since then that has been worth pick 1 or 2, let alone tanking to get them? Maybe the King boys will get there. But the odds of getting a KPF worth tanking for, are really really slim.

Whos tanking?

Also why limit to pick 1, anywhere top 5 or 6 will give you a great chance of landing a game breaker type.

King boys will be, McKay, Curnow when fit, Hogan if not for mental health, J.Cameron, Naughton worthy of top 5 in draft, Lukosious also will prove worthy, Moore imo would of been.

I also think there has been a shift back towards attacking play, this undoubtedly will see KPF come back in vogue.

Under the Roos, Lyon and Buckley systems KPF was almost redundant.

Also as I said in the post you quoted whether its a KPF or a Elite mid its much of a muchness if they live up to the pick and have the talent. Whatever mid it is it needs to be a player capable of turning a game not a pure accumulator.

 

[Scodog10]

We would have needed to have sorted Daicos points beforehand, God knows what that would have cost, as we'd be looking for an extra 800 without last year's trades. And we would need to have a trade agreed to, but I don't see why any club other than North would say no to future first for pick 2.

That wouldn't be a great scenario, but that's only a hedged bet. You'd only hold it and not trade beforehand if you thought there was a good chance that North werent going to bid.

You weren’t meaning to quote me here were you? The AFL closed the Sydney loophole too so I don’t know how it’s relevant anyway? That said I’d always encourage us to make moves like that if we see value just as we did in 2020. We just ballsed it up by being shitful…

 

[Scodog10]

Name a club that has won a flag without a top 5 or 6 pick in its 22 (or a FS worthy of top 5 like Hawkins).

Good luck.

Haha he’s going to need it because every club in the league has a top 5 pick or priority access player on their list… You could at least make it fair by answering his question.

 

[sr36]

Whos tanking?

OK, not tanking. Same question, but selecting a team that doesn't maximise our chances of winning.

Ben King is the only top 5 selected KPF in the last 15 years, who you can have any confidence that he'll end up justifying a top 5 selection. Mcdonald and the Adelaide boy may or may not join him. Thus being happy to finish low in order to get a top 5 selection for a KPF seems like fools gold to me.

 

[sr36]

You weren’t meaning to quote me here were you? The AFL closed the Sydney loophole too so I don’t know how it’s relevant anyway? That said I’d always encourage us to make moves like that if we see value just as we did in 2020. We just ballsed it up by being shitful…

No. Sorry. Accidental quote.

I think we ballsed it up by getting unders anyway - if GWS had have added in a future second, it would have been a par deal.

 

[Scodog10]

I certainly wouldn't cry if it was Buddy, but he was drafted in 2004, has there been a KPF drafted since then that has been worth pick 1 or 2, let alone tanking to get them? Maybe the King boys will get there. But the odds of getting a KPF worth tanking for, are really really slim.

Kennedy, Mackay, Naughton (I’d probably have him and Taylor in a redo), King (I have him ahead of Smith) and Thilthorpe. For me it’s about a great KPF more often than not being better than an elite mid. It’s essentially how you can draft tall early and still go best available even if it’s not consensus. You just need to shift your values and ours have been very contested ball centric for a decade. The counter argument is obviously that the midfield talent at picks 1 or 2 is next level. When was the last one of those to bust?

Completely dead against whatever Loki is spouting off about now in regards to our draft strategy, but they can be found at the high end.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Tbh I think if McRae manages to make Jordy’s time at the club more enjoyable he’ll stay anyway. It’s always struck me that the only time he really looked like he was happy and going to reject other offers was 2018 when Bucks was forced to change his methods.
Honestly, if Fly is as good as everyone says I’m not expecting any major names to be seeking a new home in 2022.

I think the entire playing list will be excited and rejuvenated with a new coaching group, with a new game plan. I think we could see an uptake in performance with majority of the players on the list...

 

[Scodog10]

No. Sorry. Accidental quote.

I think we ballsed it up by getting unders anyway - if GWS had have added in a future second, it would have been a par deal.

Them trading us a pick they didn’t have after they’d given a team that was better than them two picks for guys we probably rated in our top 10-15 would have been highway robbery! I get it you hated that deal, refuse to acknowledge the benefits of it and will probably argue the downsides from your perspective until the players involved move on, but the only element to bring it down was how shit our 2021 was.

 

[sr36]

Kennedy, Mackay, Naughton (I’d probably have him and Taylor in a redo), King (I have him ahead of Smith) and Thilthorpe. For me it’s about a great KPF more often than not being better than an elite mid. It’s essentially how you can draft tall early and still go best available even if it’s not consensus. You just need to shift your values and ours have been very contested ball centric for a decade.

Completely dead against whatever Loki is spouting off about now in regards to our draft strategy, but they can be found at the high end. I think the issue is more about the midfield talent at picks 1 or 2 being next level.

McKay and Naughton look really good value at pick 9 and 10. I'm just talking about the concept of kpfs going so early and thus us needing to get a top 5 selection to lock in a 10 year gun KPF that we hear a lot about. If recent history is a good judge, you're going to get poor value from your top 5 picks if you go that way. Not to say you should put a line through them, but as a strategy, unless there's someone truly outstanding available, t'd be bloody low percentage

 

[partypie]

We would have needed to have sorted Daicos points beforehand, God knows what that would have cost, as we'd be looking for an extra 800 without last year's trades. And we would need to have a trade agreed to, but I don't see why any club other than North would say no to future first for pick 2.

That wouldn't be a great scenario, but that's only a hedged bet. You'd only hold it and not trade beforehand if you thought there was a good chance that North werent going to bid.

Agreed, makes for a much easier night in the draft bunker and it's not like pick 2 wouldn't have many suitors who would pay a high price for it.

 

[sr36]

Them trading us a pick they didn’t have after they’d given a team that was better than them two picks for guys we probably rated in our top 10-15 would have been highway robbery! I get it you hated that deal, refuse to acknowledge the benefits of it and will probably argue the downsides from your perspective until the players involved move on, but the only element to bring it down was how sh*t our 2021 was.

I know I go on about it too much and I do try not to bite, but it comes up so often.

I daresay both clubs would have valued it at about pick 6-12. Even at the low end, ou're not usually getting that with two mid 20s picks and would expect to pay more.

In terms of the benefits, I'm convinced that short term self interest was the main benefit - a group who were getting smashed about trade week wanted to regain some face with a big draft haul.

They probably rated Poulter that highly, but with pick 30 you'd often get someone that high on your draft board. That doesn't mean you trade pick 15 for pick 30. From that journo with us for the draft, we shifted from highest rated to needs for the McMahon pick.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Wrighty is going to be on Trade Radio from 10am.

Already a welcome change from the Walsh years when it was nothing but a cone of silence from the club.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[unplugged]

Wrighty is going to be on Trade Radio from 10am.

Already a welcome change from the Walsh years when it was nothing but a cone of silence from the club.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yep, Wright every year he was on Hawthorn made himself available for Trade Radio etc.

It's a refreshing change, he clearly understands that he can control the narritive with smart, calculated and regular media appearances.