Strategy Trade and List management (Add your rumour to the simmering stew that is the post season. Edition.)

[Bemoreboyddog]

My assessment is that it's a combination of three issues:

1. Overload of midfielders with neat but uncreative disposal - they look for obvious, heavy leading options and can often perform decent entry kicks in these conditions, but are not creative enough to place the ball in space and direct the forwards to the right spots themselves. This is why Redpath is quite a good goal kicker in our system - his aggressive leads play to the strengths of our midfielders and mask the weaknesses. Unfortunately he has other limitations which makes his suitability to AFL level football questionable at best.
2. An inability of our forwards to lead appropriately. We just don't have a lot of natural forwards with good forward IQ, and the ones who do fit that description are limited by being surrounded by those who don't. They get blocked in and stuck for options. This is exacerbated by having to get up and back a lot in our system, taking them out of position to lead and making them tire more quickly.
3. Heavy pressing game style makes the forward line more congested than need be and is not compatible with our lack of genuine crumbing options. How often do you see someone that isn't Picken or Stringer read the fall of the ball and kick a quick goal out of it? We lack guys who can kick goals under pressure/congestion. If we don't score on a quick, running play, we struggle to find a way to do so because of an over-populated attacking 70.

Overall, I feel we score when we stream through the middle or when we have an aggressive, leading target, but struggle outside of those two scenarios. Which is ok if you have a method by which to maximise the number of times you get those opportunities - as we did in 2016 - but not if you don't - as in 2017.

Clearly the answer is to bring back Baz.

Very well put Dan, totally agree.

 

[Royal Doulton]

fronkalicious any info on the Crameri decision? I expect it's one of these:

He's cooked
Bev isn't a fan
He was part of the "rat pack" at the Dogs

Asking you because you told us about half way through the season that Crameri wasn't gonna be offered a new contract and yet everyone here seems so surprised today. So I'm thinking you know something that everyone else on here doesn't know or maybe you just hear that bit of info in isolation.

There was mail mid season that we would limely only be offering up a rookie spot for Crameri.. if anything at all.. no suprises at all at today's events.

 

[Royal Doulton]

I agree, lacks polish but goes in for it every time, good defensively, follows instructions and can run all game.

Every team needs a few depth players (they are different to list cloggers) because the reality is that our 29th ranked player in terms of games selected for the season played 7 games last year. You are not going to get a list with first 18 quality players all the way back to 35. Having someone like Honeychurch to come in for that 7 games is as good as you are going to get.

And who knows, next year he might just sharpen up a little with his disposals. Maybe he hits a vein of form he has shown glimpses of in the past that will put him in the 22 before one or two others.

I applaud the retention of Mitch Honeychurch, not because I'm a fan but because he fits into requirements for the season coming.

Youd assume a tall fwd spine to be surrounded by high intensity, running crumbers who can tackle, or slot a snap.. Dahl, Picken, Clay & HC fit this role...

 

[Fossie 32]

Fronk definitely doesn't get the respect he deserves. Was 3+ months ahead of the media on both JJ and Crameri and that's just this year.

Scrag that avatar is hurting my eyes
............ a big improvement

 

[SEBuldog]

Imagine if we hadn't got Schache on the buzzer last week!?

We'd probably be knocking on Simon Minton-Connells door to come back and kick a few sausage rolls for us next season.

Absolutely staggered we have cut both Cloke and Crameri and kept Honeychurch. Complete madness.

 

[Leviticus]

Youd assume a tall fwd spine to be surrounded by high intensity, running crumbers who can tackle, or slot a snap.. Dahl, Picken, Clay & HC fit this role...

Yep, with the likes of Boyd/Roughead and Schache in the forward line, the remaining forwards are going to have to work very hard back to cover for them defensively and to get forward to crumb off them. Few injuries to your 1st choice small/mid forwards and you'll be pretty happy Honey is there to come in. He could easily get 10 games next year in this role.

 

[VitalDread]

2017, where he averaged 15 disposals per contest, including six score involvements and his 5.7 tackles per game, placing him fourth at the Club.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I actually thought Honey was on the edge of playing some really good games this year. Just needed to kick straighter at goals (and not alone there!)

 

[TommyD13]

We now are starting to hopefully develop a lot more genuine, small pressure forwards. We have Honeychurch, Smith, and Dahlhaus. JJ can also play here. We have also a medium sized option in Dickson, with Greene looking a similar type of player waiting in the wings. Bind this together with Tom Boyd and Schache, and then some dangerous resting midfielders like Bont, I think our forward line woes might be finally cured.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Oh come on

There is a line you just don’t cross. Lol

If you blokes cant see I love our club as much as anyone else you are blind. I simply don’t buy the kook aid and form my own opinions and if anyone things the last 14 months have been impressive they are bias beyond help.

If we don’t question the club when it fails how can we be CONTINUALLY competitive ?

Dude you've been drinking the kook aid since you joined this forum (sorry couldn't resist that typo)

 

[Mattdougie]

Dude you've been drinking the kook aid since you joined this forum (sorry couldn't resist that typo)

Lol yeah ok I will cop that

 

[yebiga]

Personally I always thought getting Cloke was an odd decision - there was a small chance he would come good but it became apparent quickly it was never going to be much more than just adequate at best.

the club must believe Shack and red is sufficient back up in the key post. In away it should fill us with some confidence that Bev believes Shack will be good.

Judging by some of the responses to talk back callers on SEN re Crameri - something has gone wrong there. Universally dismissed the possibility we would rookie him or consider it. Also they were confident he would get picked up by someone.

We are short on forwards - no doubt. Honey is only depth.

Bev must have some plan how this is going to work. If Dale, Smith and Dickson have big years that will solve a lot of problems but we still need more.

 

[Ozil]

Retiring Cloke in favour of Honeychurch was weird but the list did look top heavy.

I'd have liked his experience but others have pointed out Red will likely line up R1 because for all his flaws he finds the goals, Boyd is a non-negotiable in and Schache should play.

There wasn't room for him and reduced salary or not it would've been bad list management juju to use up a list spot on him if we could retain or add depth where it is needed.

It's obvious Crameri is completely cooked or non-committal about reversing the damage of the past two seasons, I can't see them punting a known quantity like him after Stringer's departure without that being the case.

I think Honey's on borrowed time again but he tends to put himself in scoring positions a number of times each game. Not as optimistic as others that he'll ever straighten up, but that could be important for us next season.

 

[TMoney22]

Maybe we plan on using more picks in the 2018 draft and signing Honey to a 1 year makes it easier to release a list spot. Potential drops next year are Morris, Greene, Campbell and maybe Dickson. I'd say only Morris might be definite out of those, so Honey makes it two definites

that's the only thing that makes sense to me. But could have been Cloke but i guess we have enough KPF cover.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Maybe we plan on using more picks in the 2018 draft and signing Honey to a 1 year makes it easier to release a list spot. Potential drops next year are Morris, Greene, Campbell and maybe Dickson. I'd say only Morris might be definite out of those, so Honey makes it two definites

that's the only thing that makes sense to me. But could have been Cloke but i guess we have enough KPF cover.

I thought this too, but we could have just had a bigger rookie list for the same effect.

 

[bobby2]

I could understand everyone losing their minds if we'd just re-signed Declan Hamilton again but Honey is solid. Never gonna be a star but he's probably around that Clay Smith level of solid contributor. (Apart from finals when Clay goes full beast mode)

Honey will go well. He's an upgrade in crozier

 

[Substance]

13 outs including rookies, stinks of a rebuild, restump, reboot.

Oldest list in the comp, midfield going nowhere, and Kennedy's end on the horizon. Need Naitanui back to his best ASAP.

 

[Substance]

Jackson Trengove now our 3rd most experienced player. Very important that we picked him up.

 

[lachy]

Caro does it to be a b!tch

Regardless what people think I do it coz I love this club and am sick of us accepting mediocrity

I think somewhere along the line you confuse your opinion with fact of the clubs action.

How the trade and draft shows anything OTHER than accepting mediocrity I an not sure.

Made hard decisions and restructured and continue to restructure the list. Oh and yes we were premiers 12 months ago and these changes come after 1 bad season.

In saying that on the surface would have kept Crameri ahead of Honey however underneath there may be a valid reason

 

[Mattdougie]

I think somewhere along the line you confuse your opinion with fact of the clubs action.

How the trade and draft shows anything OTHER than accepting mediocrity I an not sure.

Made hard decisions and restructured and continue to restructure the list. Oh and yes we were premiers 12 months ago and these changes come after 1 bad season.

In saying that on the surface would have kept Crameri ahead of Honey however underneath there may be a valid reason

We continue to carry complete and utter spuds on our list that have shown for several years they are not up to it. Instead of taking a chance we take the safe route and keep the spuds instead of bringing in new players that may be better.

And 12 months ago is a lifetime in football and bringing that up is accepting mediocrity in itself if we need to lean on that for years

 

[TiAn_]

Crameri turns 30 next year and is coming off 2 years out and a season ending hip injury.

Cutting Honeychurch, 22, a useful player at AFL level with attributes we now need, would mean drafting a random player at 81 in a shallow draft and having to keep them on our main list for 2 years. Rather than just getting them in the Rookie Draft. Utter madness.

 

[TiAn_]

Continually delisting/trading out depth players every year and replacing them with younger and usually worse late round players is how Carlton & Melbourne ended up on the treadmill of mediocrity for so long. Cutting everyone that is borderline best 22 is the dumbest thing that gets suggested on here, moreso now that we actually should be playing finals and don’t want to have to play some first year player taken in the 5th round of the draft out of necessity.

 

[Mattdougie]

Lol

Keeping the 35th best player on your list because you suddenly think after 5 years he may do something in one game he gets purely due to injury is such a brilliant and brave strategy.

I mean We all know Honey will be the difference between us winning and losing a flag this year and bringing in an FA for a year or a rookie upgrade so we have an extra spot for next years super draft is also stupid and not forward thinking.

Hahahaha hahahaha honestly never change keep flipping those muffins.

 

[fronkalicious]

Club were dirty with how Crameri looked after himself during 2016. He showed very little commitment to training and his rehab in early 2017, which is why the club decided to plan its cap around not having him in 2018 and beyond.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

We continue to carry complete and utter spuds on our list that have shown for several years they are not up to it. Instead of taking a chance we take the safe route and keep the spuds instead of bringing in new players that may be better.

And 12 months ago is a lifetime in football and bringing that up is accepting mediocrity in itself if we need to lean on that for years

Problem with that old mate is that Honeychurch is historically better than an “average” AFL player. Every team has spuds who clearly aren’t going to be regular AFL level players but they can fill a limited role in case of emergency. Most kids who come into the system can’t.