Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Dogsman16]

After the events of this evening in adelaide I think it strengthens the chances of the bulldogs trading pick 5 as McCartney knows he cant bank his short term coaching future on untried young key position players.

This story could be about him next year.

I think he realises that he has to trade in some players to fill holes in our best 22. My 3 main attainable targets are
Reid (Syd)
Jaksch (GWS)
Shaw (GCS)

These 3 won't get us a premiership but they will help us finals. Stringer, Bonts, Libba (already) and Macrae becoming the guns we hope/know they will become will get us a premiership. But they need help in other areas of the ground.

I want to keep that pick 5 unless its for an absolute A grade gun, in whatever position that may be (although unlikely we will be able to do this offseason).

 

[Two Planks]

I think trading pick 5 would just about dig his own grave.

And what happens to him if pick 5 turns out to be another Tim Walsh or James Sellar. I would rather have Sam Reid playing for my future than Lever or Durdin.

 

[Gmod23]

And what happens to him if pick 5 turns out to be another Tim Walsh or James Sellar. I would rather have Sam Reid playing for my future than Lever or Durdin.

We won't know for another 2-3 years.... Reid isn't that good that we would trade a pick 5! Pick 15 yes, pick 5 no.

 

[immortalmike]

And what happens to him if pick 5 turns out to be another Tim Walsh or James Sellar. I would rather have Sam Reid playing for my future than Lever or Durdin.

I have faith in our first round recruiting since McCartney came in.
Judging by that Sam Reid isn't worth pick 5.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Let's just say he once played at the hawks.... but not any more

Enough with the cryptic clues - who are you talking about?

 

[Two Planks]

We won't know for another 2-3 years.... Reid isn't that good that we would trade a pick 5! Pick 15 yes, pick 5 no.

I doubt McCartney has 2-3 years. If they dont win 9 or 10 games next year he is in big trouble and he would know this.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

After the events of this evening in adelaide I think it strengthens the chances of the bulldogs trading pick 5 as McCartney knows he cant bank his short term coaching future on untried young key position players.

This story could be about him next year.

Sanderson had a list that should've played finals and Adelaide's got more financial clout than most.

McCartney's undertaking a rebuild, some of which has taken place during compromised drafts, at a financial basket case that wasn't expected to play finals for some time. If anyone responds to this with 'accepting mediocrity,' I will find you and I will punch you in the throat.

His coaching future does not hinge on us trading a top 5 pick for a flaky swingman.

 

[Dogsman16]

Hahahahaha Do we just throw 1 mil a season at Dangerfield and send pick 5 to him too (probably something else too). WCE won a flag with a mediocre Spine yet an absolute brilliant midfield.
Compare
Judd - Dangerfield
Cousins - Griffen
Kerr - Libba
Fletcher - Macrae
Braun - Wallis
Embley - Bontempelli

Not to mention Hrovat and friends

Not bad comparison in terms of quality.
There defence was also good though
Hansen and Lynch as their KPF's weren't exactly world beaters!
Stringer > Lynch + Hansen.
Would be very interesting if we went down that path (although unlikely it may be).

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Enough with the cryptic clues - who are you talking about?

Pict 1. Lance Armstrong

Pict 2. Benjamin Franklin.

Not sure what IM is trying to say tho. Unless of course he is referring to that ex Hawks gun Benjamin Armstrong.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Pict 1. Lance Armstrong

Pict 2. Benjamin Franklin.

Not sure what IM is trying to say tho.

Who knows? Geez, it's gonna be a long off-season.

 

[womble54]

And what happens to him if pick 5 turns out to be another Tim Walsh or James Sellar. I would rather have Sam Reid playing for my future than Lever or Durdin.

And if Durdin turns out to be the next Carlisle? That's why our recruitment department gets paid to make the call. And at the moment it would seem we have one of the best in the business thankfully

 

[immortalmike]

Sanderson had a list that should've played finals and Adelaide's got more financial clout than most.

McCartney's undertaking a rebuild, some of which has taken place during compromised drafts, at a financial basket case that wasn't expected to play finals for some time. If anyone responds to this with 'accepting mediocrity,' I will find you and I will punch you in the throat.

His coaching future does not hinge on us trading a top 5 pick for a flaky swingman.

Damn you and your acceptance of mediocrity.

 

[Two Planks]

["womble54, post: 35162382, member: 142741"]And if Durdin turns out to be the next Carlisle? That's why our recruitment department gets paid to make the call. And at the moment it would seem we have one of the best in the business thankfully [/QUOTE]

Carlisle didnt play a game in his first season and that is my point. The coach is under pressure to improve quickly and drafting talls for the future of the club will probably mean he has no future at the club. If the dogs get through this trade period without adding kpp with some experience next year is going to be a battle that McCartney may struggle to survive.

 

[TedDougChris]

After the events of this evening in adelaide I think it strengthens the chances of the bulldogs trading pick 5 as McCartney knows he cant bank his short term coaching future on untried young key position players.

This story could be about him next year.

Strongly disagree.

Reports from Adelaide indicate that senior player and Roo power have ousted Sanderson. The senior core at Adelaide are all much (typically) younger than our list - so have a much longer timeframe to stay and influence the club. Our senior core would be players with 1 - 2 years max left in them, Griffen excepted. The club, after 3 painstaking years of development, are very unlikely to throw the baby out with the bathwater for players with a very limited lifespan. They'll back the coach in.

We're also one year into our standalone VFL sides existence and already benefitting significantly - Macca will be allowed to bring these guys into the seniors when he thinks they are ready. It's not a short term plan we're trying to follow here.

Reports about disagreements between players and coach have been hosed down today - don't believe everything you hear.

The club has had discussions about some aspects of Macca's coaching style - his words I think - not the strategy or the direction that the club is taking. Our performances this year were largely driven off the back of the kids, who reportedly love Macca. They frequently speak of the bond they have with the club and one another. We could easily get another 1 - 2 wins next year solely off Griff being able to play for the full year as he did at the end of the year. We're hoping that we'll get more out of the senior guys and the kids keep developing.

Better players are out of contract next year, not this year. The club knows this and won't be looking to get short term boost this year, they'll be targeting the end of next year.

We're expecting to see further improvement next year, not earth shattering - but hopefully approaching 10 wins.

It took Port 6 years to return to finals, in an era when most of their early draft selections were uncompromised. We're 4 years out, so 2016 is the likely return date for the Dogs to finals - assuming we follow the Port model.

This story screams media beat up and I can't see it impacting on our existing, so far successful longer term strategy.

Having said that, I'm not against trading Pick 5 - provided the deal is right. Sam Reid is not the correct deal...

 

[TedDougChris]

Carlisle didnt play a game in his first season and that is my point. The coach is under pressure to improve quickly and drafting talls for the future of the club will probably mean he has no future at the club. If the dogs get through this trade period without adding kpp with some experience next year is going to be a battle that McCartney may struggle to survive.

Bullshit. Coach is not under pressure to improve significantly.... Yes, we all (and those connected at the club) want improvement - but significant structural change is occurring and this takes time. Everyone at the club is on board with this.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Agree wholeheartedly with TedDougChris, who has summed it up better than I could've hoped to.

Damn you and your acceptance of mediocrity.

Damn it, immortalmike. Did it have to be you?

 

[yebiga]

Lol


Lol I've don't this 10000 times funny how it gets ignored but ok mate I will again

Understanding to start that I don't think out list is that good( sorry negative I know to start) and I'm not going to include Bonts stringer or McCrae I think we all accept they will make it

Jones - let him go it will bite us on the butt, elite mark just needs the right buttons pushed
Redpath- like this guys speed and bulk and we have given Cordy years why not this kid?
Smith - love him
JJ - always liked him takes it on
Darley - will he the next Gilbee off half back
Honeychurch - can't not like him the way he goes about it
Talia - IF he stays takes over from Morris
Crameri - will be the bet 3rd forward in the league when we get him help

Ps IVe never said Hrovat is a did I said he won't be a star and isn't right for our list at the moment

So we are no entirely incompetent
There is some hope, some quality on the list coming thru, some good decisions being made

 

[Two Planks]

Bullshit. Coach is not under pressure to improve significantly.... Yes, we all (and those connected at the club) want improvement - but significant structural change is occurring and this takes time. Everyone at the club is on board with this.

Agree to disagree, will return to this in twelve months.

 

[immortalmike]

Agree wholeheartedly with TedDougChris, who has summed it up better than I could've hoped to.

Damn it, immortalmike. Did it have to be you?

Was it ever not going to be me?

 

[doggies ftw]

I just think Sam Reid would fasttrack the shit out of our development. How often do we break down at CHF? Seriously when we're moving the ball to half forward the best case we can hope for is a Crameri mark 1 in every 10 (not blaming him, he's not supposed to have the ball kicked on his head in a 2 on 1) or a stoppage, more often than not its just a turn over and they rebound. Chuck Reid in that position and he will present all day and he will take more than he drops or at the very least won't let defenders outmark him with ease (still think Jones is built for this, and you all know I rate his kicking inside 50, but i'm no longer going to rely on him just coming good and thats even if he's on our list next year! and of course then theres the problem of his tank as well) then all he needs to do is move it on quickly to the likes of Macrae, Hrovat, Koby running past and at this stage Stringer leading out of FF with all the empty space in front of him created by Reid and Cramers, is an absolute nightmare for an opposition defender.

Doesn't have to be Reid, I also think Jaksch could play this role although he's a few more years away from it (but has the advantage of better foot skills himself which is very handy, and cheaper), like i said above maybe Jones but thats no sure thing, Peter Wright probably could too and could end up being the best of the lot but by the time he's any good Macca could well be gone. Best case situation for me is we get Reid somehow to play this role and then McCartin falls to pick 5 to play out of the square instead of Stringer and well the rest is in the history books (and by the 'rest' I mean the 2017, 18, 19 + premierships)

 

[True Dog]

I think we'll get him - I mean we might as well - Channel 7 already think we do.

Love it.....

 

[TedDougChris]

I just think Sam Reid would fasttrack the shit out of our development. How often do we break down at CHF? Seriously when we're moving the ball to half forward the best case we can hope for is a Crameri mark 1 in every 10 (not blaming him, he's not supposed to have the ball kicked on his head in a 2 on 1) or a stoppage, more often than not its just a turn over and they rebound. Chuck Reid in that position and he will present all day and he will take more than he drops or at the very least won't let defenders outmark him with ease (still think Jones is built for this, and you all know I rate his kicking inside 50, but i'm no longer going to rely on him just coming good and thats even if he's on our list next year! and of course then theres the problem of his tank as well) then all he needs to do is move it on quickly to the likes of Macrae, Hrovat, Koby running past and at this stage Stringer leading out of FF with all the empty space in front of him created by Reid and Cramers, is an absolute nightmare for an opposition defender.

Doesn't have to be Reid, I also think Jaksch could play this role although he's a few more years away from it (but has the advantage of better foot skills himself which is very handy, and cheaper), like i said above maybe Jones but thats no sure thing, Peter Wright probably could too and could end up being the best of the lot but by the time he's any good Macca could well be gone. Best case situation for me is we get Reid somehow to play this role and then McCartin falls to pick 5 to play out of the square instead of Stringer and well the rest is in the history books (and by the 'rest' I mean the 2017, 18, 19 + premierships)

I can see a couple of places for Reid in our side and I agree - he'd be handy, but not in exchange for Pick 5. Let's look at our recent drafting: Stringer, Macrae and Bontempelli - all around this mark. Would you trade any of these for Reid ? Of course not....

If someone like Danger is available, would Pick 5 alone get it done ? Unlikely, unless he was to nominate us specifically. You know Melbourne would bid Pick 2, and the Saints Pick 1. If the quality of talent isn't there to utilise Pick 5, why would we trade it for a sub-par deal when our recruiting has been so good lately ?

The club knows where the needs are for the side, it's painfully obvious - so they'll go to the draft to fill those needs, hope that Roberts/Talia develop in the offseason and the other kids continue their impressive development. If Reid is available for Pick 25/26 (or where-ever our 2nd rounders end up) - we'd certainly be in for that. But I suspect Freo would bid their first rounder - so we've got to be realistic.

There doesn't appear to be a player that we really want, that's available, that's worth Pick 5. We may try to extract someone of lesser stature and hope they can fill a role, but it won't be for a panic last minute desperation act.... Reid alone doesn't solve our woes, so why reach and risk our long term development for a quick fix which isn't actually a fix ??

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Bulldogs meet with Luke Lowden management yesterday, no formal approach can be made til season is over but dogs are keen and believe they can get him in player swap.

If we are looking at Lowden then maybe Minson is being shopped around. Might help us land Reid or Jacksh with the pick we get for Minson. Then get Lowden cheap as back up to Campbell (and Cordy)?

 

[doggies ftw]

I can see a couple of places for Reid in our side and I agree - he'd be handy, but not in exchange for Pick 5. Let's look at our recent drafting: Stringer, Macrae and Bontempelli - all around this mark. Would you trade any of these for Reid ? Of course not....

If someone like Danger is available, would Pick 5 alone get it done ? Unlikely, unless he was to nominate us specifically. You know Melbourne would bid Pick 2, and the Saints Pick 1. If the quality of talent isn't there to utilise Pick 5, why would we trade it for a sub-par deal when our recruiting has been so good lately ?

The club knows where the needs are for the side, it's painfully obvious - so they'll go to the draft to fill those needs, hope that Roberts/Talia develop in the offseason and the other kids continue their impressive development. If Reid is available for Pick 25/26 (or where-ever our 2nd rounders end up) - we'd certainly be in for that. But I suspect Freo would bid their first rounder - so we've got to be realistic.

There doesn't appear to be a player that we really want, that's available, that's worth Pick 5. We may try to extract someone of lesser stature and hope they can fill a role, but it won't be for a panic last minute desperation act.... Reid alone doesn't solve our woes, so why reach and risk our long term development for a quick fix which isn't actually a fix ??

Yeah don't get me wrong I'm strongly against using pick 5 on him, only if we get something else good back, but even still I'd prefer to keep the pick. Looking at all other avenues to get him without giving up pick 5 or a gun youngster is a no brainer for me though.

 

[go you pups]

Hahahahaha Do we just throw 1 mil a season at Dangerfield and send pick 5 to him too (probably something else too). WCE won a flag with a mediocre Spine yet an absolute brilliant midfield.
Compare
Judd - Dangerfield
Cousins - Griffen
Kerr - Libba
Fletcher - Macrae
Braun - Wallis
Embley - Bontempelli

Not to mention Hrovat and friends

Not bad comparison in terms of quality.
There defence was also good though
Hansen and Lynch as their KPF's weren't exactly world beaters!
Stringer > Lynch + Hansen.
Would be very interesting if we went down that path (although unlikely it may be).

This is why we need to chase Reid/Jaskch/Carlisle etc, get in KPPs with 2-5 years experience already so they peak when our midfield peaks even if they're not elite but still end up being solid and do all the team things/structural things well while also having similar goals output to a Crameri/Stringer. If 4 players from any 1 team can kick 30+ goals a season, most of the time that team will be top 8 as they have the versatility of having numerous attacking weapons, look at Hahn, Aker, Johnno, Murph, Gia, Welsh etc in 08-09 even though they weren't bigs they heavily contributed and most of them were 30+ goal a season forwards, it was a shame that Johnno and Hahn who played like KPFs weren't the size of them.

Say if our midfield peaks in 2-3 years and say we get a Durdin/Wright/McCartin/Foster and any other young KPP in future drafts in, we won't go deep in September because we won't have any solid forwards old enough to handle the pressure of finals footy and who knows what will happen if our cream of the crop mids had near misses but want out via free agency/trade at the age of 25-26-27.

Reid and Carlisle already have finals experience, Reid was a premiership key forward at the age of 20 and it is a no-brainer for mine to go hard for him.