Strategy Trade and List Management thread 4 (Be sure to huddle around your transitor radio at 11 am Edition)

[Smiley Boy]

Trengove > Roberts

 

[Metal]

Wikipedia on Jackson Trengove (TrenGOVE) - no R in GOVE!!!!

Trengove is a highly touted key position prospect who was widely tipped to be a top-10 selection in the 2008 AFL Draft before a severe hamstring injury and surgical complications.

Port Adelaide[edit]
Port Adelaide used their second round pick, number 22, to draft Jackson Trengove in 2008.[1] He was initially aligned to the Port Adelaide Magpies in the SANFL having been taken at pick #5 in the SANFL Mini Draft,[2]

After a difficult climb back from his injury, Trengove made his AFL debut in the opening Round of the 2010 after playing in the 2010 NAB Cup. His defensive pressure was evident as he had 4 tackles. Trengove played in rounds one to four of the 2010 season as a tall defender and ruckman, but was omitted from the Power's round 5 clash against top-placed St Kilda. He returned to Power's AFL side in Round 7 when they defeated Essendon at Etihad Stadium. This was arguably Trengove's best match so far, as he collected 11 disposals, 8 hit-outs, 6 tackles, 1 goal and 3 marks (one of them with seconds to go which ensured the team's win). He backed up his efforts with another strong performance the following round, achieving a career high 12 hit-outs. In the Power's Round 20 clash against the West Coast Eagles, Trengove totaled a current career-high 23 disposals, along with a game-saving late game spoil, which earned him the Rising Star nomination for that round. His 2010 season was recognised with the Gavin Wanganeen Medal as the club's best player under the age of 21.

In 2011, Jackson played every game for the Power. Also in 2011, there was a lot of speculation that Trengove would leave the club and move back to his home state of Victoria because of the current on-field and off-field dramas that were unfolding with the Power. He later dismissed these rumors when he signed a 2-year contract with the Power on the Monday after Round 21. He along with Travis Boak were jointly crowned the John Cahill Medallist at season's end, the first time that there had been a tie at the club's best and fairest award.[3]

Trengove's importance to the club was illustrated in 2014. From the time he was injured just before half time in the second Showdown against the Crows - which Port had held the lead and top spot on the AFL ladder - to his point of return a month later, Port had lost 4 of 5 games.

Trengove had another injury interrupted season in 2015 and as a result was never quite able to produce the sort of football that had previously seen him as a dominant presence in the back half. He underwent shoulder surgery in January and sat out all of the trial matches but returned in time to take his place for Port's round one game. He then hurt his ankle in round 8 against Richmond and missed several games mid season before a shoulder reconstruction saw his year over with in round 20.




Seems somewhat injury prone with shoulder surgery and later a shoulder reconstruction. He should fit in well with our other injury prone backs.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Why the hurry to dump Fletch? Collins has shown two fifths of **** all.

Hurry? Fletch has been senior games since 2011! He's not getting better from here.

 

[Northern Dogs]

Surely Adams goes forward if we sign trengove.

Also Young spent a lot of the VFL year as a forward, so he could also be used for stints up front, as could Roberts at a pinch. All of a sudden, we appear more versatile.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Why the hurry to dump Fletch? Collins has shown two fifths of **** all.

He showed a lot in the first quarter of the VFL on the weekend actually, before an ankle injury.
Small sample size but that was the best i've seen from Dad to date.

 

[Ozil]

Hurry? Fletch has been senior games since 2011! He's not getting better from here.

You've worded that in an incredibly disingenuous way.

Fletch was drafted in 2011 and was so skinny you'd miss him if you were looking side on.

He played two games in 2012 and didn't get another look-in until 2014, when he was shuffled between lines, strategically left to develop at Footscray by McCartney and ultimately cut down by a shoulder injury.

Since then, he's been a serviceable key defender who can read the play and cut in for the mark or spoil, but struggles on a behemoth. In our system it isn't ideal, and we'd prefer a more physically-equipped player, but as depth he's fine. It's not his fault that he's been called upon so often.

He doesn't need to get better to be of value for us. Kieran Collins does, because at this stage it'll be him that goes before a foot soldier like Fletch.

 

[cecil]

If we sign him that means we are needing 4 to move off the list. Murphy, Moyd, Hamilton and either Honeychurch or Crameri.

So we are locked in to only picking up one more player unless we move on a contracted player. Also makes it likely we delist Roarke Smith otherwise he takes Honeychurch or Crameri's place and we can't pick up another player. Not sure if resigning Webb was the right move tbh

 

[Jonts]

Jonts is better suited to answer!

Pick 24 in the draft played as a lockdown small defender For his first couple of years

Since then has played predominantly at hff.
Would be top 3 for pace and agility at the club
Brings lots of defensive pressure.
Struggles with reading the play and finishing

 

[Ozil]

Struggles with reading the play and finishing

I'll draw up the paperwork.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

If we sign him that means we are needing 4 to move off the list. Murphy, Moyd, Hamilton and either Honeychurch or Crameri.

So we are locked in to only picking up one more player unless we move on a contracted player. Also makes it likely we delist Roarke Smith otherwise he takes Honeychurch or Crameri's place and we can't pick up another player. Not sure if resigning Webb was the right move tbh

What possible reason to keep Prudden on the list is there?

 

[BRWB]

You've worded that in an incredibly disingenuous way.

Fletch was drafted in 2011 and was so skinny you'd miss him if you were looking side on.

He played two games in 2012 and didn't get another look-in until 2014, when he was shuffled between lines, strategically left to develop at Footscray by McCartney and ultimately cut down by a shoulder injury.

Since then, he's been a serviceable key defender who can read the play and cut in for the mark or spoil, but struggles on a behemoth. In our system it isn't ideal, and we'd prefer a more physically-equipped player, but as depth he's fine. It's not his fault that he's been called upon so often.

He doesn't need to get better to be of value for us. Kieran Collins does, because at this stage it'll be him that goes before a foot soldier like Fletch.

So this year is Fletch's sixth year on our list and appears to have been overtaken by an underdeveloped Young. And couldn't get a game with our entire flag defence plus Adams out...

After 6 years of at best averageness and at worst mediocrity, Fletch has shown Ayce like levels of survival to land another two years.

Can't believe we re-signed him for another two years.

And by the way if you check you'll find most KPs never end up much good if they haven't at least established themselves as best 22 by the end of their 4th or 5th year on a list. There are exceptions, but not many.

Kudos to Fletch. Cockroach level survival skills.

 

[dogwatch]

What possible reason to keep Prudden on the list is there?

That he's a deity?

 

[cecil]

What possible reason to keep Prudden on the list is there?

He's a rookie so it's not counted as one of the minimum 3 list changes. Although I forgot that rookie upgrades now count, so theoretically we could still upgrade Roarke but would forfeit a top 40 pick to do so. Which I don't think is great value. If we are upgrading him we are packaging our 2nd and 3rd picks to move up in the draft, or trading one into next years draft.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

So this year is Fletch's sixth year on our list and appears to have been overtaken by an underdeveloped Young. And couldn't get a game with our entire flag defence plus Adams out...

After 6 years of at best averageness and at worst mediocrity, Fletch has shown Ayce like levels of survival to land another two years.

Can't believe we re-signed him for another two years.

And by the way if you check you'll find most KPs never end up much good if they haven't at least established themselves as best 22 by the end of their 4th or 5th year on a list. There are exceptions, but not many.

Kudos to Fletch. Cockroach level survival skills.

(Cough...)

 

[BRWB]

(Cough...)
View attachment 412224

Still can't believe that. Good on Fletch.

Doesn't change anything I said, unless of course there's a rule that it's contracts for life for all flag players.

 

[Unorth]

So this year is Fletch's sixth year on our list and appears to have been overtaken by an underdeveloped Young. And couldn't get a game with our entire flag defence plus Adams out...

After 6 years of at best averageness and at worst mediocrity, Fletch has shown Ayce like levels of survival to land another two years.

Can't believe we re-signed him for another two years.

And by the way if you check you'll find most KPs never end up much good if they haven't at least established themselves as best 22 by the end of their 4th or 5th year on a list. There are exceptions, but not many.

Kudos to Fletch. Cockroach level survival skills.

I haven't minded Fletch as a 3rd tall. His height means he should be more of a #1 defender, but his frame means otherwise. But if you give him a weaker forward to take he can use his height effectively and do an ok job, better than your average tall defender with ball in hand and while he isn't outmarking anyone, he can spoil effectively. I think we'd have been much better off with him playing at the end of the year instead of Young. That's one of the moves I personally don't agree with that was made.

But yeah, regardless of all that, Trengove makes it even harder for him. Even if he spends most of his time in the VFL I don't mind his deal though. Players get injured. Particularly our players. There's a fairly good chance at least one of Trengove/Adams/Morris misses games next year, and that's when I'd rather be plugging in Fletch than Young or Collins. Then when the 2 years on his contract is up, Young and maybe Collins will presumably be ready to have a regular gig in the seniors, and we can let Fletch go. Just don't think he's bad insurance to have considering how often we get guys missing games.

 

[bobby2]

So this year is Fletch's sixth year on our list and appears to have been overtaken by an underdeveloped Young. And couldn't get a game with our entire flag defence plus Adams out...

After 6 years of at best averageness and at worst mediocrity, Fletch has shown Ayce like levels of survival to land another two years.

Can't believe we re-signed him for another two years.

And by the way if you check you'll find most KPs never end up much good if they haven't at least established themselves as best 22 by the end of their 4th or 5th year on a list. There are exceptions, but not many.

Kudos to Fletch. Cockroach level survival skills.

Mediocrity and averageness mean the same thing. The ayce comparison (27 games in seven years including a stretch of gifted games in 2015) is unnecessarily harsh.

In his fourth year, he played every game after round 5 apart from a four week ankle injury + three week comeback through vfl. In his fifth year, he played 18 games and completely blanketed key forwards in prelim and grand finals. He had established himself within our team in his fourth and fifth years.

Continuing to his sixth year, Fletch had played in 9 of 12 games this year when he re-signed. A two year contract seems appropriate for a player who was making the team most weeks. He was re-signed before Young was picked ahead of him. You can't expect the club to have known that fletch would only have one more afl game for the year at the time.

It's all good and well to say he's not technically best 22 and that he's only played so many games because others have been injured, but that really doesn't matter if your first choice players can't get out on the park. Adams has been far from durable and we need a backup.

Refusing to offer another contract would've been foolish by the club. At worst, he is serviceable, cheap and loyal depth in a position of need. At his best, he can nullify Jeremy Cameron. Either way, he is a bulldogs premiership hero who deserves a bit more respect around here.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Mediocrity and averageness mean the same thing. The ayce comparison (27 games in seven years including a stretch of gifted games in 2015) is unnecessarily harsh.

In his fourth year, he played every game after round 5 apart from a four week ankle injury + three week comeback through vfl. In his fifth year, he played 18 games and completely blanketed key forwards in prelim and grand finals. He had established himself within our team in his fourth and fifth years.

Continuing to his sixth year, Fletch had played in 9 of 12 games this year when he re-signed. A two year contract seems appropriate for a player who was making the team most weeks. He was re-signed before Young was picked ahead of him. You can't expect the club to have known that fletch would only have one more afl game for the year at the time.

It's all good and well to say he's not technically best 22 and that he's only played so many games because others have been injured, but that really doesn't matter if your first choice players can't get out on the park. Adams has been far from durable and we need a backup.

Refusing to offer another contract would've been foolish by the club. At worst, he is serviceable, cheap and loyal depth in a position of need. At his best, he can nullify Jeremy Cameron. Either way, he is a bulldogs premiership hero who deserves a bit more respect around here.

Even then calling Young overtaking Roberts is not only harsh, it's completely hyperbolic. I really don't want to hang crap on Young because it's for completely understandable reasons (he's the youngest listed player), but he was deplorable in the last 3-4 games that he played - Patton, Dixon, kicking bags on him, his critical turnovers in the 1st half vs GWS that directly led to goals, etc. If there wasn't some sort of extenuating circumstances (not wanting to dent his confidence and development by playing him), Roberts clearly would have been preferred to Young by the end of the year again.

 

[grassman75]

(Cough...)
View attachment 412224

Pl

Mediocrity and averageness mean the same thing. The ayce comparison (27 games in seven years including a stretch of gifted games in 2015) is unnecessarily harsh.

In his fourth year, he played every game after round 5 apart from a four week ankle injury + three week comeback through vfl. In his fifth year, he played 18 games and completely blanketed key forwards in prelim and grand finals. He had established himself within our team in his fourth and fifth years.

Continuing to his sixth year, Fletch had played in 9 of 12 games this year when he re-signed. A two year contract seems appropriate for a player who was making the team most weeks. He was re-signed before Young was picked ahead of him. You can't expect the club to have known that fletch would only have one more afl game for the year at the time.

It's all good and well to say he's not technically best 22 and that he's only played so many games because others have been injured, but that really doesn't matter if your first choice players can't get out on the park. Adams has been far from durable and we need a backup.

Refusing to offer another contract would've been foolish by the club. At worst, he is serviceable, cheap and loyal depth in a position of need. At his best, he can nullify Jeremy Cameron. Either way, he is a bulldogs premiership hero who deserves a bit more respect around here.[/QUOTE

Wel said Sid.

P.S - I liked your article on the afl players site. True clubman

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Are we going to address the forward line issues by trading or drafting ??

So long as trengove can play solely def I wouldn't mind it

 

[The Inbetweener]

Surprised at the defence of Roberts. Acknowledge he played well in the finals, but taking care of premiership players contract wise just becsuse isn't a good list management strategy.

I don't necessarily care that it was a 2 year deal as he is contract is probably a round of drinks.

But it appears obvious that he is depth only going ahead so a one year deal shouldn't have been out of the question.

As I say though, I don't mind too much, but don't agree with the sentiment that flag players get different rules when it comes to list management

 

[Cadillac]

I hope Roberts is on peanuts.
J-Mac is a strange list manager isn't he. I feel he is one of the more overhyped in the game. Sure, he's fantastic at retaining talent. But hasn't exactly set the world on fire in bringing players in. Biggs is probably his best move to date. And that's not really saying much.

 

[bresker]

I thought that Roberts was looking solid and dependable whilst Adams was in the side early on in the season. He was pretty good last year too. He'll never be a big bodied defender but he knows where to put his body and arms when the ball is in the air. He is a fairly trustworthy kick out too.

The team certainly didn't improve after he was dropped, and he wasn't the only player to have a downturn in 2017. For some reason Roberts get dropped to the 2s all season & gets replaced by a skinny kid clearly out of his depth, whilst underperforming mids and forwards coast along in the big league.

Roberts isn't the most skilled but if the rest of the team do their bit, there might still be a place for him. He's the type who needs others to be at their best so that he can do the little things defensively that make things tick. A cog in the machine.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Can't say I'm very interested in getting Trengove. He just reminds me of a slightly better version of Roughead when he's on. Not overly athletic either.

Much rather have Adams, Cordy, Morris and possibly Young down there developing. With Roberts and Collins as backup.


Going after Schache makes much more sense. Yeah he'll cost more but it'll give us another big body to kick to for the next 10 years alongside Boyd.

Then we can focus on getting quick skilful ball users in the draft over the next few years.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TiAn_]

I bet Richmond are spewing they didn't delist David Astbury when he was Fletcher's age, like many of their supporters wanted.