Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Doggy]

Where did you find this info, Doggy?

See the article I posted earlier in the media thread. Interview with Baines

 

[doggies ftw]

If there’s one thing you have to give massive massive props to our coaching staff for - our individual player development continues to be ahead of the rest.

Dale into elite and now even as poor as we’ve been this year as a team we’ve seen massive strides by a few individuals - Gardener, Richards, Buku and even Scott to an extent - all 5, except maybe Richards who was a higher pick, we’re odds on to not make it at one stage but their development has been exceptional. English & Baz too but tbf those two are just elite talents who’d probably excel anywhere.

It’s why it’s so frustrating that we’re so eager to waste games on battlers and also refuse to turn the list over and constantly waste list spots like Hayes, Cav etc when we’ve done so so well out of our higher reward types in recent years

 

[BIG_BONTS]

"CEO says positive things about player retention". If they all take 10-20% unders we can fit them in

 

[BIG_BONTS]

If there’s one thing you have to give massive massive props to our coaching staff for - our individual player development continues to be ahead of the rest.

Dale into elite and now even as poor as we’ve been this year as a team we’ve seen massive strides by a few individuals - Gardener, Richards, Buku and even Scott to an extent - all 5, except maybe Richards who was a higher pick, we’re odds on to not make it at one stage but their development has been exceptional. English & Baz too but tbf those two are just elite talents who’d probably excel anywhere.

It’s why it’s so frustrating that we’re so eager to waste games on battlers and also refuse to turn the list over and constantly waste list spots like Hayes, Cav etc when we’ve done so so well out of our higher reward types in recent years

Agree, we've certainly consistently been one of the best at developing non-KP players in the league for the last decade

 

[doggies ftw]

Agree, we've certainly consistently been one of the best at developing non-KP players in the league for the last decade

I feel like we have a decent record with KP players too but frustratingly just don’t invest in enough of them or really seem to rate playing talls anyway. Need to do everything we possibly can to develop JUH & Darcy properly, those two really probably will be the difference for us in a few years

 

[Virgin Dog]

If there’s one thing you have to give massive massive props to our coaching staff for - our individual player development continues to be ahead of the rest.

Dale into elite and now even as poor as we’ve been this year as a team we’ve seen massive strides by a few individuals - Gardener, Richards, Buku and even Scott to an extent - all 5, except maybe Richards who was a higher pick, we’re odds on to not make it at one stage but their development has been exceptional. English & Baz too but tbf those two are just elite talents who’d probably excel anywhere.

It’s why it’s so frustrating that we’re so eager to waste games on battlers and also refuse to turn the list over and constantly waste list spots like Hayes, Cav etc when we’ve done so so well out of our higher reward types in recent years

I agree with this completely. Although at the same time, I think it's worth pointing out that Scott was, for a good period, seen as a complete waste of time almost unanimously on this board. We were all questioning why the hell we recruited him, and why the hell he continued to be gifted games.

It's amazing how far Scott has come, to the point he's now a very reliable role player whose absence is actually felt. I say this because many, myself included, are guilty of the same attitudes (if not worse) towards McComb.

I'll be honest, I'm still struggling with his selection, but am doing my best to remain optimistic that our recruiters know what they're doing and see something in McComb that is hard for the majority of us fans to see. His kicking on the weekend was deplorable, but his pressure was a huge positive and he managed 21 touches which showed he understands the flow of the game well enough to know his role and where he needs to be. I will probably continue to cringe every time he's got the ball in hand ready to go for a kick, but I'm cautiously optimistic that he could turn things around quickly this year and become a solid contributor.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I’ve never been that concerned that any of them don’t want to stay. It’s whether we can get near enough to the salary they’re being offered to move.

Do players move just for $$$ though? There’s usually something else, a problem that the club can’t easily resolve. Two years ago Dunkley’s issue was “culture” - we didn’t really get many specifics but it was a disrupted period anyway. Plus being used in a ruck role. That seems to have been sorted out.
English has insisted on being number one ruck and that’s now settled.
The others have cemented their places in the side every week with no sign of them being on the fringe.
Battling for a slot, like L Young and Lipinski, is a strong reason to want to leave, and both are now regulars at their new clubs.
So, unless there’s a major problem with any of the ones named, I’d expect deals to be worked out.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I agree with this completely. Although at the same time, I think it's worth pointing out that Scott was, for a good period, seen as a complete waste of time almost unanimously on this board. We were all questioning why the hell we recruited him, and why the hell he continued to be gifted games.

It's amazing how far Scott has come, to the point he's now a very reliable role player whose absence is actually felt. I say this because many, myself included, are guilty of the same attitudes (if not worse) towards McComb.

I'll be honest, I'm still struggling with his selection, but am doing my best to remain optimistic that our recruiters know what they're doing and see something in McComb that is hard for the majority of us fans to see. His kicking on the weekend was deplorable, but his pressure was a huge positive and he managed 21 touches which showed he understands the flow of the game well enough to know his role and where he needs to be. I will probably continue to cringe every time he's got the ball in hand ready to go for a kick, but I'm cautiously optimistic that he could turn things around quickly this year and become a solid contributor.

Well I liked Scott from the beginning, he and McNeil were pretty effective during the first half of last season. I didn’t see him as a waste, I thought he offered something a bit different and he’s going from strength to strength, imo.
Gardner was another story, took a looong time to find his feet but I’m warming to him now.
McComb looks as if he should be good and, like you, I’m trying to be optimistic about his future. He was better in his second game, he might be even better again in his third . Let’s hope so.

 

[Ash1337]

Overs for his age and lack of professionalism.

 

[adogsfan5]

Overs for his age and lack of professionalism.

Hmm I’d give a pick in the low 20s. Teens too high on his wage.

 

[doggies ftw]

I agree with this completely. Although at the same time, I think it's worth pointing out that Scott was, for a good period, seen as a complete waste of time almost unanimously on this board. We were all questioning why the hell we recruited him, and why the hell he continued to be gifted games.

It's amazing how far Scott has come, to the point he's now a very reliable role player whose absence is actually felt. I say this because many, myself included, are guilty of the same attitudes (if not worse) towards McComb.

I'll be honest, I'm still struggling with his selection, but am doing my best to remain optimistic that our recruiters know what they're doing and see something in McComb that is hard for the majority of us fans to see. His kicking on the weekend was deplorable, but his pressure was a huge positive and he managed 21 touches which showed he understands the flow of the game well enough to know his role and where he needs to be. I will probably continue to cringe every time he's got the ball in hand ready to go for a kick, but I'm cautiously optimistic that he could turn things around quickly this year and become a solid contributor.

Mm I get what you’re saying and I definitely wrote Scott off early, I just didn’t see any weapons he had to make it at AFL level. But he’s a good role player because he is okay at everything, he’s quick has neat skills etc. he can play any position on the ground. He’s still as vanilla as they come and not in my best 22 with everyone fit - but can see how he’s a good pick up to put on the list.

McComb is different in that he’s just an inside midfielder, he always has been and always will be. He’s got serious weaknesses in his game that’ll be shown up at the top level (and have been), he can’t plug holes around the ground (even though we’re trying to do that with him) constantly playing/drafting/re-signing battlers like him is the reason we’re not a great side, despite how well we usually develop players imo

I’ve said my piece on McComb plenty of times but I suggest anyone who thinks he has a place in this team right now to go to the AFL app and watch his extended highlights which shows all his contributions - he’s a straight up liability, he doesn’t hit a single target by foot (except for a couple of scrappy goals, next week he’ll be just as likely to be 0.3). He does some decent things in the stoppages, goes hard at the ball and lays a couple of good tackles - nothing you shouldn’t expect from every player on the ground tbf, maybe in a team lacking grunt and inside players he could be of use. He has zero reason to be in a side like ours right now.

Luckily Essendon are shit but I have no doubt other teams are going to hurt us big time on the back of his turnovers - playing him as a wing/hff makes zero sense

 

[Testekill]

Overs for his age and lack of professionalism.

Yeah unless they're picking up a fair chunk of the salary then they're not getting a first rounder and steak knives. He's getting close to cooked since his body is breaking down.

 

[Dale4captain]

Yeah unless they're picking up a fair chunk of the salary then they're not getting a first rounder and steak knives. He's getting close to cooked since his body is breaking down.

I really don’t see him leaving the West. This is a guy that is so engrained in WA culture. Like people don’t understand the difference in lifestyle between Perth and Melbourne. Why would Jeremy pack up his shit for 2 years to live in Footscray?

He’s on 1.25m a year as the king of Cottesloe beach and he’s allowed to have a gut. **** leaving that behind.

 

[willofwest]

Read that there are some possible moves in the rucks at years end, Goldstein and Lobb amongst names touted. Saying Lobb at $1.5 over 3 years as he wants to move back East ( Stkilda touted as likely destination) .I think Lobb would be a great 2nd ruck forward for us supporting English. Martin to retire , if sweet isn’t up to it, go hard at a young ruck to develop and go get the best KPD in the draft ( with hopefully Darcy to get some development time this year as a KPD option) .

 

[Golden_6]

Read that there are some possible moves in the rucks at years end, Goldstein and Lobb amongst names touted. Saying Lobb at $1.5 over 3 years as he wants to move back East ( Stkilda touted as likely destination) .I think Lobb would be a great 2nd ruck forward for us supporting English. Martin to retire , if sweet isn’t up to it, go hard at a young ruck to develop and go get the best KPD in the draft ( with hopefully Darcy to get some development time this year as a KPD option) .

Lobb this year would've been handy but I don't think it would work with our cap next year. If Bruce wasn't on the list then yes but we can only afford one of those types. We can't fit all of Naughton, Bruce, Lobb & a developing JUH in the same forward line after this season. Hopefully the club is optimistic on Bruce's knee for the future as it's likely he'll need to fill the backup ruck role for the next couple of years in a Naughton/Bruce/JUH trio.

 

[cecil]

Can't wait to go into next year with a ruck set up of Goldstein and Martin. Wonder if Mumford is getting itchy feet yet?

 

[Ash1337]

Lobb this year would've been handy but I don't think it would work with our cap next year. If Bruce wasn't on the list then yes but we can only afford one of those types. We can't fit all of Naughton, Bruce, Lobb & a developing JUH in the same forward line after this season. Hopefully the club is optimistic on Bruce's knee for the future as it's likely he'll need to fill the backup ruck role for the next couple of years in a Naughton/Bruce/JUH trio.

Lobb wanted to leave even if it meant on less money last season so could possibly do it.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Read that there are some possible moves in the rucks at years end, Goldstein and Lobb amongst names touted. Saying Lobb at $1.5 over 3 years as he wants to move back East ( Stkilda touted as likely destination) .I think Lobb would be a great 2nd ruck forward for us supporting English. Martin to retire , if sweet isn’t up to it, go hard at a young ruck to develop and go get the best KPD in the draft ( with hopefully Darcy to get some development time this year as a KPD option) .

Lobb makes some sense in the context of English primarily being the dominant number 1 ruck.

 

[Mofra]

If the cap is tight, we'd be looking at state leagues for rucks who can make a impact forward. Downie from Williamstown would be worth chatting too, although he seems a deep, Tom Boyd type who may not want to be in the AFL system again. Crossley an obvious one I'd talked about before.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Goldstein will be well into his 34th year going into next season and is fast approaching Martin levels of combusted.

If he's looking to move. He can look to pad out his property portfolio as he goes over the cliff elsewhere as far as Im concerned.

As I understand it Lobb has cashed in with his early contracts and isnt looking for a big pay day to return east. I'd be content if we could get him to agree to come to the club to play second banana to English and the terms were agreeable. The former might be an issue given our recent history of attracting 2nd rucks and the latter may be an issue if we are struggling to fit our current list of un-contracted players in.

Saving that. We need to do what most other clubs seem to do. Poach a developing ruck from another side after they have put the hard work into him. Who that might be I'll leave to those of you who pay attention to such things...

 

[VitalDread]

If the cap is tight, we'd be looking at state leagues for rucks who can make a impact forward. Downie from Williamstown would be worth chatting too, although he seems a deep, Tom Boyd type who may not want to be in the AFL system again. Crossley an obvious one I'd talked about before.

Also have to take into account with the new mid season rules of players no longer picking their salary if they haven't played AFL

So some VFL players might be losing coin for a chance to play AFL

 

[Philthy1]

Goldstein will be well into his 34th year going into next season and is fast approaching Martin levels of combusted.

If he's looking to move. He can look to pad out his property portfolio as he goes over the cliff elsewhere as far as Im concerned.

As I understand it Lobb has cashed in with his early contracts and isnt looking for a big pay day to return east. I'd be content if we could get him to agree to come to the club to play second banana to English and the terms were agreeable. The former might be an issue given our recent history of attracting 2nd rucks and the latter may be an issue if we are struggling to fit our current list of un-contracted players in.

Saving that. We need to do what most other clubs seem to do. Poach a developing ruck from another side after they have put the hard work into him. Who that might be I'll leave to those of you who pay attention to such things...

People are forgetting or didn’t notice just how bad Goldstein played against us a few weeks back. Looked well and truly cooked.

His stats on AFL app also show his numbers dropping off. The categories he was elite in and now barely average.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[TedDougChris]

People are forgetting or didn’t notice just how bad Goldstein played against us a few weeks back. Looked well and truly cooked.

His stats on AFL app also show his numbers dropping off. The categories he was elite in and now barely average.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Just like Martin, the time for Goldy was a few years ago. Might have made a difference in the GF last year sadly, but we'll never know.

 

[Pocket Terrace]

Mm I get what you’re saying and I definitely wrote Scott off early, I just didn’t see any weapons he had to make it at AFL level. But he’s a good role player because he is okay at everything, he’s quick has neat skills etc. he can play any position on the ground. He’s still as vanilla as they come and not in my best 22 with everyone fit - but can see how he’s a good pick up to put on the list.

McComb is different in that he’s just an inside midfielder, he always has been and always will be. He’s got serious weaknesses in his game that’ll be shown up at the top level (and have been), he can’t plug holes around the ground (even though we’re trying to do that with him) constantly playing/drafting/re-signing battlers like him is the reason we’re not a great side, despite how well we usually develop players imo

I’ve said my piece on McComb plenty of times but I suggest anyone who thinks he has a place in this team right now to go to the AFL app and watch his extended highlights which shows all his contributions - he’s a straight up liability, he doesn’t hit a single target by foot (except for a couple of scrappy goals, next week he’ll be just as likely to be 0.3). He does some decent things in the stoppages, goes hard at the ball and lays a couple of good tackles - nothing you shouldn’t expect from every player on the ground tbf, maybe in a team lacking grunt and inside players he could be of use. He has zero reason to be in a side like ours right now.

Luckily Essendon are shit but I have no doubt other teams are going to hurt us big time on the back of his turnovers - playing him as a wing/hff makes zero sense

With regard to the bolded bit above, you may expect it from every player but not every player does have hardness and tackling as strengths though. From what I've seen, his hardness is right up there and something that I think we do need in our side right now, given our contested ball numbers this season. His attack on the footy and use of his big body in tight a couple of times was impressive in my opinion. We could have benefited from this in both the Carlton and Richmond games this year.

The mob we just played could certainly do with a player like him in their side, as you've alluded to.

Early days in his career and it's obvious that better connection with the footy is needed, but it's sort of the 'messy' Dahlhaus of 2015-2016 versus the polished but soft Lipinksi or Jordy McMahon discussion. I know who I'd rather have out there in big games and I hope we stick with the messy type at Adelaide Oval this week.

 

[doggies ftw]

With regard to the bolded bit above, you may expect it from every player but not every player does have hardness and tackling as strengths though. From what I've seen, his hardness is right up there and something that I think we do need in our side right now, given our contested ball numbers this season. His attack on the footy and use of his big body in tight a couple of times was impressive in my opinion. We could have benefited from this in both the Carlton and Richmond games this year.

The mob we just played could certainly do with a player like him in their side, as you've alluded to.

Early days in his career and it's obvious that better connection with the footy is needed, but it's sort of the 'messy' Dahlhaus of 2015-2016 versus the polished but soft Lipinksi or Jordy McMahon discussion. I know who I'd rather have out there in big games and I hope we stick with the messy type at Adelaide Oval this week.

I get what you’re saying and I agree contested ball has been an issue for us this year but IMO the fix to that problem is sorting out what the **** is going on with a midfield group consisting of Dunks, Libba, Macrae, Bont, Baz & Treloar - they shouldn’t be losing contested ball to anyone. I don’t think the solution is adding more contested ball specialist mids in wing/half forward positions on the ground IMO