Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Virgin Dog]

He was actually an inside midfielder at SANFL level. I have no doubt he could be a successful pressure small forward at AFL level and that’s where he needs to play - he is definitely not a winger, why would anyone even think he can play wing he doesn’t have the right skillset or attributes that you’d look for in a wing at all? Strange call to be playing him there.

Surely with Cody gone we move him to the forward pocket and he just stays there - I really don’t care if he averages 6 touches a game so long as he goes at at least 1 goal, 5 tackles & 15+ PA’s a game. That has to be his bread and butter and there’s a spot for that in our side.

He played both inside and outside in the SANFL (so not full time wing by any means). No idea why we're playing him there honestly

 

[doggies ftw]

He played both inside and outside in the SANFL (so not full time wing by any means). No idea why we're playing him there honestly

Yeah sorry I meant to say he’s definitely not a winger at AFL level.

 

[SackofTaters]

Has Caleb re-signed ? May be an unpopular opinion, but I'd be seeing what offers we could get for Caleb. Clubs are now isolating him in Defence , which emphasizes ( no pun intended ) his lack of size.

With our defence currently leaking like a Russian Warship, I'd test the waters to see if we can improve our list composition, which is currently terribly skewed.

I love what he does with the ball going towards our goal, but through no fault of his own he is a liability on the defensive end.

 

[doggies ftw]

Has Caleb re-signed ? May be an unpopular opinion, but I'd be seeing what offers we could get for Caleb. Clubs are now isolating him in Defence , which emphasizes ( no pun intended ) his lack of size.

With our defence currently leaking like a Russian Warship, I'd test the waters to see if we can improve our list composition, which is currently terribly skewed.

I love what he does with the ball going towards our goal, but through no fault of his own he is a liability on the defensive end.

Is he a FA? We’d be looking at end of first round comp at best probably - I’d rather keep him personally

 

[Ash1337]

Daniel is FA but I think he's one that just loves the club and rather stay even if he takes unders.

 

[dergert]

I am a little bit more optimistic about our list profile after some thought. But it's absolute last chance saloon with our best midfielders on the wrong side of 25.

We could easily bring in another first this year by trading next year's.

 

[doggies ftw]

I am a little bit more optimistic about our list profile after some thought. But it's absolute last chance saloon with our best midfielders on the wrong side of 25.

We could easily bring in another first this year by trading next year's.

That’s what I’d be looking to do (obviously depending on strengths of the draft and whether we think there will be players available we want etc - I don’t know anything about the strength of either draft personally)

Load up with elite talent this year, as they’ll hopefully still be able to contribute during our prime mids years - anything next year or after will probably start to miss our current teams peak

 

[dergert]

That’s what I’d be looking to do (obviously depending on strengths of the draft and whether we think there will be players available we want etc - I don’t know anything about the strength of either draft personally)

Load up with elite talent this year, as they’ll hopefully still be able to contribute during our prime mids years - anything next year or after will probably start to miss our current teams peak

We could end up with three first round picks if Dunkley leaves.

 

[iambrilliant]

Max lynch is looking lively for the hawks tonight

 

[TedDougChris]

One thing i wonder, so keen to know if anyone has any insights - do we review our misses in our drafting/recruiting ?

Players like Nic Martin for example - do we look at how/why he was overlooked in our recruiting ? Was there something we didnt like, didnt have the exposure or understanding of his skills, and do we adjust our recruiting on this basis ?

 

[Ash1337]

One thing i wonder, so keen to know if anyone has any insights - do we review our misses in our drafting/recruiting ?

Players like Nic Martin for example - do we look at how/why he was overlooked in our recruiting ? Was there something we didnt like, didnt have the exposure or understanding of his skills, and do we adjust our recruiting on this basis ?

Nic Martin was overlooked by everyone bar Essendon in a pre-season pickup scenario so not really a good example of recruitment failure. There was limited exposure from a lot of players the last couple of years so it took a club to invite him and see how he went with training, fitness, intraclub matches, to have a look at his skills.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Nic Martin was overlooked by everyone bar Essendon in a pre-season pickup scenario so not really a good example of recruitment failure. There was limited exposure from a lot of players the last couple of years so it took a club to invite him and see how he went with training, fitness, intraclub matches, to have a look at his skills.

His story reminded me of Dale Morris, who had to send video cassettes to the clubs, the only one who took the time to look at it was the Bulldogs.

 

[Draft Pick]

We could end up with three first round picks if Dunkley leaves.

Is that based on getting two for Dunkley ?

No club is offering that for him.

That was an over the top demand the club made a couple of years ago and was never going to be accepted by Essendon.

The media have run with it thinking it was an offer made to the Bulldogs.

 

[dergert]

Is that based on getting two for Dunkley ?

No club is offering that for him.

That was an over the top demand the club made a couple of years ago and was never going to be accepted by Essendon.

The media have run with it thinking it was an offer made to the Bulldogs.

No.

Earlier in the thread I was spitballing trading out next year's first to get another one in this year. Then another if Dunkley left.

All hypothetical.

 

[Golden_6]

Another being played completed outta position. He’s a forward pocket, not a wingman.

I don’t think that’s fair to be honest. He was drafted as a wingman and that’s certainly the position he played at state league level when we drafted him. McNeil may not be very good but it’s not like we’ve just lumped him on the wing with no experience in the role like we have with McComb.

 

[TedDougChris]

Nic Martin was overlooked by everyone bar Essendon in a pre-season pickup scenario so not really a good example of recruitment failure. There was limited exposure from a lot of players the last couple of years so it took a club to invite him and see how he went with training, fitness, intraclub matches, to have a look at his skills.

Not quite what I asked. I'm not asking for a list of which clubs overlooked people, I just want to know that we're looking at how people like him and others - were overlooked by our recruiting teams. It's not that difficult. Not saying our recruiters are bad or anything - just that we need to have this feedback loop that means we try not to make the same mistakes.

 

[Chalky White]

Daniel is FA but I think he's one that just loves the club and rather stay even if he takes unders.

He should take under. He can't reach overs

 

[Chalky White]

If there’s one thing I’ll give Bevo it’s that he does keep an eye on the future. He’s been pretty good about giving players a debut early etc.

Given we’ve played finals three years in a row and made a grand final last year, I don’t think there’s any real pressure on him this year. No one is flaming us in the press yet.

If this goes on a few more weeks finals won’t even be possible. I remember late in 2018 when we were shot Bev gave a raft of players opportunities so I can see him swallowing his pride when that happens.

I actually think he is under real pressure and is coaching now for his future. I hate losing but can accept it when other teams are just too good. What I have seen this season in particular but also in previous seasons is mediocre selection strategy. It seems to be worsening.
Our recruitment policies seem to be haphazard, we were crying out for a ruck and had one offer himself to us in Ladhams but we knocked him back on supposed character issues. What am I missing, Sydney picked him up and they are the most disciplined organisation in the league.
I am also seeing a lack of ability to think on the run. The knowledge we had short people in defence against Port with injuries and we still didn't put Cordy back for me was mind-blowing. Maybe the game was gone and Bevo was looking to score more than concede, I don't know.
He has been a great coach, brought the holy grail to us, got us to another one last year but he has been with us a long time now and I wonder if the message is wearing thin.

I just think watch this space, there might be a bit of movement in the coaching ranks at season end and I doubt we will sit on our hands at that time. I am also sure other clubs may look at Bevo as a potential option for them, his style might suit another club.

 

[Philthy1]

I actually think he is under real pressure and is coaching now for his future. I hate losing but can accept it when other teams are just too good. What I have seen this season in particular but also in previous seasons is mediocre selection strategy. It seems to be worsening.
Our recruitment policies seem to be haphazard, we were crying out for a ruck and had one offer himself to us in Ladhams but we knocked him back on supposed character issues. What am I missing, Sydney picked him up and they are the most disciplined organisation in the league.
I am also seeing a lack of ability to think on the run. The knowledge we had short people in defence against Port with injuries and we still didn't put Cody back for me was mind-blowing. Maybe the game was gone and Bevo was looking to score more than concede, I don't know.
He has been a great coach, brought the holy grail to us, got us to another one last year but he has been with us a long time now and I wonder if the message is wearing thin.

I just think watch this space, there might be a bit of movement in the coaching ranks at season end and I doubt we will sit on our hands at that time. I am also sure other clubs may look at Bevo as a potential option for them, his style might suit another club.

Not sure I agree.

We went into the Port game without Bont, Keath, JJ, English, Bruce and Hannan, all of who are first 22. Off the back of a 5 day break we lost Cody, TOB and VDM during the game and Gardner looked like he wasn't moving too well either by the end. Don't underestimate how much Bruce, just as one example, out hurts our structure.

We lost the Carlton game because we kicked 2.7 in the last quarter. We lost the Richmond game because we kicked points when it mattered.

We could easily be 4-4 or 5-3 and while not perfect would put us into the 8.

We are only a few injuries and a genuine second ruck and a KPD away from being a serious contender. Don't think the club wasn't trying to fix that in the off-season just gone. The club have a strong sense of the type of player they want but were unable to get them. We shouldn't just bring a player in because we can.

Things are never so bad or as good as they seem.

 

[cecil]

By the end of the Port game we were missing:
Our best FF, our best small forward, our best midsized forward, our best Ruck, our best midfielder, our best FB, our best 3rd tall back, and our 2nd best key back was playing visibly injured. That's a huge amount of key players missing, and I wouldn't be reading the riot act yet.

It does however show our depth is questionable. Seeing Wright and Casboult kick bags after being traded for a pack of chips while Sweet rots in the VFL, Martin basically uses a walker to get around the ground, and we are throwing players at the 2nd KPF role is particularly bad.

 

[Anja_Nees]

By the end of the Port game we were missing:
Our best FF, our best small forward, our best midsized forward, our best Ruck, our best midfielder, our best FB, our best 3rd tall back, and our 2nd best key back was playing visibly injured. That's a huge amount of key players missing, and I wouldn't be reading the riot act yet.

It does however show our depth is questionable. Seeing Wright and Casboult kick bags after being traded for a pack of chips while Sweet rots in the VFL, Martin basically uses a walker to get around the ground, and we are throwing players at the 2nd KPF role is particularly bad.

Our depth has been shown up a bit, but even then we’ve had guys like Young and Lipinski leave for better opportunities (understandably).

Guys like Scott and McNeil are fine when you only have an injury or two, but when you have eight or so our depth players are shown up. I think most clubs would suffer similarly if they had as many out.

I also think it’s pretty clear some of our prime movers were struggling badly late last year and we probably have players who are a long way short of their peak condition.

I doubt we can save this season but the next best thing is to get everyone in the best position we can to be right next year.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Our depth has been shown up a bit, but even then we’ve had guys like Young and Lipinski leave for better opportunities (understandably).

Guys like Scott and McNeil are fine when you only have an injury or two, but when you have eight or so our depth players are shown up. I think most clubs would suffer similarly if they had as many out.

I also think it’s pretty clear some of our prime movers were struggling badly late last year and we probably have players who are a long way short of their peak condition.

I doubt we can save this season but the next best thing is to get everyone in the best position we can to be right next year.

Totally agree with this. It’s a long season playing home and away and then four finals. Plus the players didn’t have a break during our bye, they continued to train.

Focus on getting our players right, getting our players back, use our good draft hand to fix some holes, have a good preseason and come out hard next year.

 

[Virgin Dog]

By the end of the Port game we were missing:
Our best FF, our best small forward, our best midsized forward, our best Ruck, our best midfielder, our best FB, our best 3rd tall back, and our 2nd best key back was playing visibly injured. That's a huge amount of key players missing, and I wouldn't be reading the riot act yet.

It does however show our depth is questionable. Seeing Wright and Casboult kick bags after being traded for a pack of chips while Sweet rots in the VFL, Martin basically uses a walker to get around the ground, and we are throwing players at the 2nd KPF role is particularly bad.

I think we have great depth in the midfield and half back. Our depth problem lies in talls, and it's been exposed badly this season. If we'd lost Daniel and Libba, I'd wager it would've been less impactful than us having lost Bruce and English, not because of quality of player, but because we have good coverage to some extent for their roles, but not in the KPF and Ruck positions

 

[fred cook]

By the end of the Port game we were missing:
Our best FF, our best small forward, our best midsized forward, our best Ruck, our best midfielder, our best FB, our best 3rd tall back, and our 2nd best key back was playing visibly injured. That's a huge amount of key players missing, and I wouldn't be reading the riot act yet.

It does however show our depth is questionable. Seeing Wright and Casboult kick bags after being traded for a pack of chips while Sweet rots in the VFL, Martin basically uses a walker to get around the ground, and we are throwing players at the 2nd KPF role is particularly bad.

That’s the frustration part for me , we could have picked up players like Casboult Brown etc for a Peter Rhode (cheap as chips ) but we didn’t do that and pick up guys like O Brien etc when we have many players that match their style of play and skills like O Brien.


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[VogonProsthetnic]

If Hunter is indefinite, can we free up a mid season draft spot?

Same with Hannan.

Time to start planning ahead for the future.