Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[flipper83]

The challenge for Tasmania will be convincing players to move down there. After watching Gold Coast and GWS struggle so much early on, most established players will probably not be that excited unless Tassie pay them ridiculous amounts.

I believe that when one of the one of the earlier expansions clubs was brought in teams were asked to nominate their 'best' 22 and the new club had free reign outside of that. It's not a bad way to build strong depth and perhaps players not considered in the best 22 may be happier to move. Add in a few elite free agents or trade acquisitions and high end draft talent and it might work.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Fox Footy Article about this Tassie team.

Tasmania’s AFL team will reportedly be built via priority picks in three drafts.

The Age reports the pending club will, under draft plans, receive fewer priority picks than fellow expansion sides Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney.

In addition, the league wants the side to be competitive in its opening year, so a heavier focus on experienced players is also expected.
The AFL’s draft plan, the report says, would see four or five first-round picks given to Tasmania in the 2027, 2028 and 2029 national drafts.

Of those picks, the club would be required to trade two each draft to bring in experienced players.

Should one or both of those picks not be traded, it would roll into the following season as an additional selection.

The Herald Sun, meanwhile, said the new club would likely be granted $1 million outside the salary cap as a means to providing signing on bonuses to big name players.

There would also be a Tasmanian father-son clause.

The report claims it is not yet known whether the Tasmanian side will be granted ongoing cap concessions in a bid to combat the go-home factor that has plagued the competition in recent seasons.

AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan said on Wednesday he was confident Tasmania’s opening years in the league would be smoother than the Suns and Giants, given the lessons learned from both of those builds.

“I think we’ve learned a lot about list builds and how we do that work to ensure, I think, probably more immediate success rather than longer term success,” he said on Wednesday.

“I think that we have tools and free agency and a lot, we learned a lot about actually how you do that while limiting the impact on the rest of the competition.

“Then in the end, like in our heavily regulated, equalised game, there’ll be the right people in the right spots making the right decisions.

“I think we will, reasonably quickly and with the support of the clubs, get a set of rules to put the squad together. It’ll be good decision making after that.”
McLachlan said he also had no fear about the ability of the new side to attract big-name players.

”I’ve certainly spoken to enough star marquee players who love (the idea of) coming down here (and) starting young families. I do my homework and I’m not worried about that,” he said.
“We’ve had legitimate concerns historically (but) this is a different city, a different state.

“What players want to be able to do is be good footballers, and whether it’s in the AFLW or the AFL, the facilities are going to be first class. They will be playing in what I think will be an incredible, pumping venue in the middle of a great city.”

Former Collingwood president Eddie McGuire said clubs were already starting to put plans in place for the coming years as Tasmania edges towards its first year in the competition.

“There’s list management meetings happening every day this week now that it’s official,” he told Nine’s Footy Classified.

“I spoke to a number of list people today. The general consensus from the smart people in football is they should be looking to finish somewhere between 6th and 10th in that first year.”

The Suns finished 17th in their opening two seasons, while the Giants finished 18th in their opening two.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Tasmania’s AFL team will reportedly be built via priority picks in three drafts.

The Age reports the pending club will, under draft plans, receive fewer priority picks than fellow expansion sides Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney.

Unpopular opinion: this is worse.

Let's get this out of the way first - no matter what they do, any type of benefit will compromise the draft for other teams. If they need to trade picks, everyone else still gets shuffled down the order beyond where they finished. If they get to raid other clubs, the compo will make sure everyone else moves down in the draft. So on and so forth.

One year where everyone gets pushed down 15 spots sucks, and pushes timelines etc back by 12 months. Pushing everyone back 5-10 spots over three years is enough to completely derail a mediocre or bad team's attempt to rebuild.

This is not good for us as in four years' time there is a real possibility, depending on list decisions and the longevity of core players, that we bottom out.

Our list management will need to focus at least partly on making sure that doesn't happen.

 

[Mr. Walker]

I am not saying I am better than you blokes but on the issue of concessions to the new club I think I am far more magnanimous. I am a big picture guy who supports the greater good, not this narrow stuff them attitude that I see all around. You have to give something to create a successful team and if drafts are compromised so be it. I would propose a 10 year period where the new club has exclusive access to the best players in the King Island talent pool. Hell, throw in Bruny, Three Hummock, Flinders and Cape Barron islands as well. No other concessions needed.
We have to be generous and fair.

 

[Ash1337]

Dangerfield says the AFLPA would back the new team to recruit 1 player from each club disregard of contract status. I expect there'd be compensation or the draft picks they have to trade. I wouldn't worry about the compromised draft. When GC & GWS came in many of their selections either got traded on or delisted. Dogs only got shafted with the Ward compensation. I don't think that'll happen again. Besides the 2011 draft dogs arguable probably the right choice for the team at the time in Clay Smith

Clay Smith

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.8

4star

. Also the 2010 draft the dogs first 2 picks were tied to wallis & libba. I think the team will do well despite tassie disrupting the draft.

 

[Northernsoul74]

And just like that, revealed today they COULD get five first round picks across three drafts. So much for Gil saying, the drafts won't be compromised like they were for GWS and GC. We better nail all our drafts four years if that will be the case.

The draft is always going to be compromised with a new licence. It’s probably a question of how compromised.

 

[Unorth]

Unpopular opinion: this is worse.

Let's get this out of the way first - no matter what they do, any type of benefit will compromise the draft for other teams. If they need to trade picks, everyone else still gets shuffled down the order beyond where they finished. If they get to raid other clubs, the compo will make sure everyone else moves down in the draft. So on and so forth.

One year where everyone gets pushed down 15 spots sucks, and pushes timelines etc back by 12 months. Pushing everyone back 5-10 spots over three years is enough to completely derail a mediocre or bad team's attempt to rebuild.

This is not good for us as in four years' time there is a real possibility, depending on list decisions and the longevity of core players, that we bottom out.

Our list management will need to focus at least partly on making sure that doesn't happen.

Yeah we’re in a bit of a nervy position as is any club with an older list trying to win now - although it’s still very early.

But I would be inclined to not trade out any first round picks for the next few years.

Then again, make big trades, get a flag in that time and you cop the bad luck that comes from compromised drafts.

Seeing as though we tend to build good lists through the draft and don’t typically attract stars, I’d lean towards playing it safe and prioritising long term success.

 

[dergert]

We'd be sniffing around Denver Grainger-Barras I imagine?

As a long bow to draw Jacob Weitering

23

Jacob Weitering

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

189.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

0.8

3star

MG

263.4

4star

was a total spud for a few years before coming good.

Hawks would be mad to move him on so early.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

We'd be sniffing around Denver Grainger-Barras I imagine?

As a long bow to draw Jacob Weitering was a total spud for a few years before coming good.

Hawks would be mad to move him on so early.

I dunno, if a team with as good a development program as Hawthorn are giving up on him after three years despite still playing Sam Frost, I'd feel pretty safe in thinking he's probably not up to it.

 

[Mutt]

No need. All we have to do is tank hard enough to finish 14th or lower.

It shouldn't be too hard. I'd do things like play VFL standard players in the seniors, have no discernible forward strategy so our gun forwards all get in each others way, push our defence up way too far so we always get caught out by slingshot plays, have players not even man the mark (outside 5), refuse to tag damaging opposition players, leave our star players on the bench at critical points in the game so they can't accidentally win it for us, set up at CBAs so opposition midfields can just walk it out the front for an unpressured entry deep i50 and ... oh I could name a whole lot of other ways we could make sure we finish well down the ladder.

Clubhouse leader for Post of the Year.

 

[dogwatch]

Also not sure where to put this but have this concern about the team at the moment - on field leadership.

Who leads on the field with the Inspiring Confidence (‘we can’ most important), Courage (must walk it for other to believe it) and Ruthlessness /Accountability (when you create an opportunity you can be relied on to take it)? Bont is the only one - and he often misses the important sealing the deal shot.

Libba is closest and certainly has the last two but not sure he is inspiring and not sure he wants it. So at best 2. Macrae has shown parts. Jones was a showing a lot.

Geelong had Danger, Selwood, Stewart, Hawkins, Smith, Blicsavs and Cameron- all potentially captain material and having all three components.

In 2016 we had Morris, Boyd, Picken and even though injured Bob as well as Bont and Libba. I feel like I missed someone. These players make the rest of the team better - not just about them - actually in many ways they are servants to others in the team.

We have the list to be top 4 where we are in the pot. But unless we address this I think we will underperform.

We have seen players like Williams, Red, Daniel, Keath, Duryea, Crozier, JJ all start developing and then drop off. Red is still there but his positional change has forced him to do more of a job than stamp his influence.

Eternal optimist in me believes we can turn this into an advantage. You don’t just throw your hands in the air - you deliberately do something about it. We have potential in a number of players but this has been shown in ver and over again in business as part image and part development.

Many teams in the window have deliberately tried to address this one way or another:

• unsociable Hawks
• Leading Teams for Brisbane Glory Days
• By in leadership quotient - Geelong
• Eagles in their heyday used a lot of the All-Blacks philosophy on this.

Not sure what we do but appears some big upside for us.

Well said. I've commented on lack of depth in leadership before and some people immediately take umbrage on Bont's behalf.

It's not about Bont. There's no argument that he's a fine leader. It's a question of who else have we got. He can't do it on his own. You need multiple voices, different voices, to marshal the troops effectively. This is even more important if some of the players think Bevo is losing his tactical touch.

I'd be all for getting in a natural leader from another club, not necessarily a club captain, but perhaps one who is gettable and affordable because his best playing days are behind him (while still able to play a useful role) or because his club is under salary cap pressure. Preferably a hard-nosed type who doesn't cop any nonsense from teammates or opponents. A classic example would be Matt Boyd ... but we happened to find him within our own ranks. If such a player could give us 2-3 years and 40-60 games that might help set and maintain standards while our own future leaders are growing into the role.

I haven't given any thought to who might fit that description out there. Any suggestions anyone?

 

[Munnez]

We'd be sniffing around Denver Grainger-Barras I imagineAs a long bow to draw Jacob Weitering was a total spud for a few years before coming good.Hawks would be mad to move him on so early.


Would take a punt on him if the Hawks weren't over the top in what they want for him. It would go towards bridging the age gap in our KPD stocks if he comes on.

 

[doggie dog]

I've never seen him play there, but he does have good defensive traits as a forward. Traits like good recovery, likes to tackle, good defensive instincts and competitiveness. He is good at ground level also and very athletic so there's a lot to work with. Only thing is he can get lost under a high ball and perhaps his one on one work could be improved on.

I've often thought he may be better suited as a defender as he isn't a great mark. Very good mark on a lead, but his high marking and/or pack marking needs a bit of work. He's also not the best kick on goal particularly from longer range.

Traits like good recovery, likes to tackle, good defensive instincts and competitiveness
Sounds like his dad..... sign me up!!!
Matty bled red white and blue.

 

[doggie dog]

Give them a bunch of draft picks with the stipulation that x many need to be traded? Means clubs don’t get raided for nothing like in the AFLW but also means the draft isn’t all Tassie.

Paddy D was saying that the tassie team could have a crack at contracted players.
Hint.. Hint... contracted tassie players who may be identified to go home and build a strong footy culture right from the get go.
This will prevent the devils having cultural issues like the suns and a shit club like the plastics who have lacked player retention and supporter retention.
Has any one checked the crowd numbers at the plastics? A veritable black hole on the budget of the AFL.

 

[Golden_6]

We'd be sniffing around Denver Grainger-Barras I imagine?

As a long bow to draw Jacob Weitering was a total spud for a few years before coming good.

Hawks would be mad to move him on so early.

Weitering was never a spud. He was developing key defender in an extremely poor side. As the number one pick, there was a bunch of external noise but he developed as expected.

DGB hasn’t developed or improved at all since his first season and hasn’t shown much at all.

 

[doggies ftw]

Of course the PA is going to come out and say oh they can target contracted players. Now we’re giving players even more power and taking away from the clubs? But the thought of clubs trading UNCONTRACTED players against their will is too much to bare, omg imagine moving your family 2hrs away on an 800k PA salary

Poor campaigners

 

[doggie dog]

I must be one of the few that is not very enthused by Tassie getting a team and adding another club to the league. It dilutes the talent pool even further, the concessions they will get compromises the draft hands of other clubs.

I certainly hope the AFL changes it up a bit, like entering them in the draft in the first round behind clubs that have had less than 5 wins the year before, or 10 in the last 3 or whatever they want to measure it on. None of that first 5 and then more at the end of the first round or any of that s**t.

No more than 2 players from other clubs and only 1 considered to be in that teams top 10 etc - with adequate compensation

All this would be much easier if they relocate the failed Gold Coast experiment and keep it at 18 teams, with more games scheduled to play on the GC

Mate I'm a long time doggies supporter from Tassie.
Tassie kids need this, it will provide a feeder ground to the AFL/AFLW team. This will give kids an opportunity at the academy that they normally wouldn't get.



We loose many great players to the main land, this may keep a few

Give them a bunch of draft picks with the stipulation that x many need to be traded? Means clubs don’t get raided for nothing like in the AFLW but also means the draft isn’t all Tassie.

Use the draft picks to get some Tassie boys to get home and set a great club culture right from the start.
Avoid the mistakes that are the suns and the plastics

 

[CarnTheScray]

Glad we have our young key positions down now. Those are the hardest positions to fill especially in compromised drafts.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Well said. I've commented on lack of depth in leadership before and some people immediately take umbrage on Bont's behalf.

It's not about Bont. There's no argument that he's a fine leader. It's a question of who else have we got. He can't do it on his own. You need multiple voices, different voices, to marshal the troops effectively. This is even more important if some of the players think Bevo is losing his tactical touch.

I'd be all for getting in a natural leader from another club, not necessarily a club captain, but perhaps one who is gettable and affordable because his best playing days are behind him (while still able to play a useful role) or because his club is under salary cap pressure. Preferably a hard-nosed type who doesn't cop any nonsense from teammates or opponents. A classic example would be Matt Boyd ... but we happened to find him within our own ranks. If such a player could give us 2-3 years and 40-60 games that might help set and maintain standards while our own future leaders are growing into the role.

I haven't given any thought to who might fit that description out there. Any suggestions anyone?

Thanks. The one I forgot was the captain! He was incredible - not just the hangers but attracting female memberships. My wife has one hall pass. Gone now - tough luck for her and us. One that basis alone I need to give up my 10 memberships. Tragic but remember 89 and all that.

Inside the team Red and Naughty are already showing the leadership potential but we must invest in developing this. Darcy, Flea, Smith all could develop and all have confidence and courage. But have to give them time.

Outside of the club -agree it is hard but clubs do it. I am a huge fan of Charlie Ballard of the GC. While Lukosius is the star and Collins is the grunt (and would also do) but put Ballard in a better team and watch out. He just never lets up. I also think maybe West Coast has a couple who have another premiership in them. Dom Sheed? McGovern (reverse Lake). Don’t know

 

[dergert]

Weitering was never a spud. He was developing key defender in an extremely poor side. As the number one pick, there was a bunch of external noise but he developed as expected.

DGB hasn’t developed or improved at all since his first season and hasn’t shown much at all.

Sorry. Please forgive me master.

 

[doggie dog]

Unpopular opinion: this is worse.

Let's get this out of the way first - no matter what they do, any type of benefit will compromise the draft for other teams. If they need to trade picks, everyone else still gets shuffled down the order beyond where they finished. If they get to raid other clubs, the compo will make sure everyone else moves down in the draft. So on and so forth.

One year where everyone gets pushed down 15 spots sucks, and pushes timelines etc back by 12 months. Pushing everyone back 5-10 spots over three years is enough to completely derail a mediocre or bad team's attempt to rebuild.

This is not good for us as in four years' time there is a real possibility, depending on list decisions and the longevity of core players, that we bottom out.

Our list management will need to focus at least partly on making sure that doesn't happen.

The Tassie team will 1st try to tempt tassie kids back home.
Club culture will help keep more tassie academy kids in the state.
More Tassie kids in the team will connect more supporters to become members.
Unlike the suns / plastics that are a major dissapointment after all these years.

Though the draft, it will be smart to target kids from country Vic/S.A/W.A who are not attracted by the bright lights of big cities.

 

[BLACAE]

I don't think the issue of not wanting to live is Tassie will be that big. Beautiful part of the country and many don't like the lime light.

In terms of targets, I hope we chat to Finn Macrae. Good age for us and has talent. Also, what happened with Sharp? Hasn't played for GC this year but had a great year in 2021. Last year was down though. Like Macrae, has talent and is a built wingman.

If we could get;
Doedee
Macrae
Sharp

Without eating to many decent picks I'd be pretty happy.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Anja_Nees]

The Tassie team will 1st try to tempt tassie kids back home.
Club culture will help keep more tassie academy kids in the state.
More Tassie kids in the team will connect more supporters to become members.
Unlike the suns / plastics that are a major dissapointment after all these years.

Though the draft, it will be smart to target kids from country Vic/S.A/W.A who are not attracted by the bright lights of big cities.

Tassie is great but kids straight out of school flee. Some I knew at uni moved back when they had kids.

I think they’ll be able to sell lifestyle etc to experienced players with families etc but yes, I think if they want youth they’ll absolutely priorities Tassie boys (and will no doubt have a zone to make sure it happens).

 

[doggie dog]

The challenge for Tasmania will be convincing players to move down there. After watching Gold Coast and GWS struggle so much early on, most established players will probably not be that excited unless Tassie pay them ridiculous amounts.

I believe that when one of the one of the earlier expansions clubs was brought in teams were asked to nominate their 'best' 22 and the new club had free reign outside of that. It's not a bad way to build strong depth and perhaps players not considered in the best 22 may be happier to move. Add in a few elite free agents or trade acquisitions and high end draft talent and it might work.

Hobart is closer to Melbourne than Sydney. Ya can't drive of course without a ferry, but if you're a cashed up AFL player on 500k would you drive 10 hours in a car.
500k will also go a lot further in Hobart than Melbourne or Sydney.
Can you name me any gold coast/west Sydney born and bred players.
Tassie players already in the AFL will be chomping at the bit to relocate back home to be in the inaugural team. Pride... Running out in front of family and friends, wearing the colours of their state team.

 

[doggie dog]

Tassie is great but kids straight out of school flee. Some I knew at uni moved back when they had kids.

I think they’ll be able to sell lifestyle etc to experienced players with families etc but yes, I think if they want youth they’ll absolutely priorities Tassie boys (and will no doubt have a zone to make sure it happens).

250k a year is still an average wage in the AFL wage. That is massive coin.
There has been so many stories of kids just drafted, getting introuble with the big cities temptations and being out of footy in a couple of years, I'm looking at you gold coast.
If i could earn the same money in Tassie as i do on the main land, id be out of here.
Money will stretch a lot further in Tassie than it will in Melbourne/Sydney.