Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Foxman98]

I love Bont too but he’s been a long way off his best this year. I’d be quite surprised if he makes it into the side, or even the squad.

Bonts best is best in the comp good he hasn't been to that standard but he's still been exceptional this year

 

[hlnbidoffer]

The English trade isn't that absurd. He signed a 2 year contract, highly likely he leaves at the end of that, so isn't it worth exploring trying to get something for him now and then find another ruck to develop?

 

[AFDogs]

Man I threw up Barrass' name a few weeks ago as a bloke I'd love to have at the club. It was an absolutely random comment as I was watching West Coast and his name had never been mentioned here before and he was taking the absolute piss.

Fast forward a few weeks and his name keeps popping up. Get it done Dogs!

 

[Foxman98]

The English trade isn't that absurd. He signed a 2 year contract, highly likely he leaves at the end of that, so isn't it worth exploring trying to get something for him now and then find another ruck to develop?

Why is it highly likely? We have waited 5 years for him to develop and he is finally there so we go back to square 1?

 

[AFDogs]

The English trade isn't that absurd. He signed a 2 year contract, highly likely he leaves at the end of that, so isn't it worth exploring trying to get something for him now and then find another ruck to develop?

Believe it or not not every player wants to head back to their home state. I think we'll be able to keep him no worries.

 

[AFDogs]

Bonts best is best in the comp good he hasn't been to that standard but he's still been exceptional this year

His last few weeks have been sensational. Almost 2021 like.

 

[Foxman98]

His last few weeks have been sensational. Almost 2021 like.

This is Bont a long way off his best

 

[TiAn_]

English: 0.8 Goals, 3.1 150, 6.2 SI, 18 Disposals, 75% DE, 3.8 Intercept possessions, 5.6 Marks, 4.4 clearances and 23.6 hitouts
Cameron: 1 Goal, 1.4 150, 3.7 SI, 13 Disposals, 66% DE, 3 intercept possessions, 4.1 Marks, 2.2 clearances 17.5 hitouts
Gawn: 0.6 Goals, 3.9 150, 5.9 SI, 20 Disposals, 59% DE, 3.5 intercept possessions, 5.7 Marks, 4.8 clearances 26.5 hitouts
Darcy: 0.6 Goals, 2.3 150, 5.6 SI, 14 Disposals, 70% DE, 2.6 intercept possessions, 2.7 Marks, 24.4 clearances 33.2 hit outs

Gawn is the only one having greater impact around the ground however his disposal is woeful the other 2 to are not even close to Tim.

I suppose he's in the conversation if you're looking at 6-7 ruckmen. Gawn, Darcy and Witts would all be clearly ahead of him. Good argument for Nankervis as well.

Aside from filling his boots against the Eagles backups and Lachlan Keeffe, and a very good game against Melbourne, he's not been AA level since coming back from his first injury. E.g. in the 6 week block since he came back from concussion he's averaged 13 disposals, 4.6 marks (0.8 CM), 23 hitouts, 1.3 clearances and 1.8 tackles and 1 goal. Pretty similar to Darcy Cameron's output.

In terms of ruck work, among ruckmen he's 19th in average hieouts to advantage (Jordon Sweet is 12th lel) and 45th in hitout win percentage (Sweet is 38th lel), which are both 'below average' numbers. So I guess it depends on what numbers you want to focus on and what aspects of the ruck role are important to you.

 

[Foxman98]

I suppose he's in the conversation if you're looking at 6-7 ruckmen. Gawn, Darcy and Witts would all be clearly ahead of him. Good argument for Nankervis as well.

Aside from filling his boots against the Eagles backups and Lachlan Keeffe, and a very good game against Melbourne, he's not been AA level since coming back from his first injury. E.g. in the 6 week block since he came back from concussion he's averaged 13 disposals, 4.6 marks (0.8 CM), 23 hitouts, 1.3 clearances and 1.8 tackles and 1 goal. Pretty similar to Darcy Cameron's output.

The whole point was he is in the conversation why would you entertain trading him when our ruck stocks after him are woeful.

 

[TiAn_]

The whole point was he is in the conversation why would you entertain trading him when our ruck stocks after him are woeful.

No way would we even consider trading him.

 

[doggies ftw]

I think these are two completely separate arguments - no way are we trading English, but he’s obviously not had an AA year, although he very well could of if he stayed injury free.

I’m finding it so hard to properly rate Timmy, some weeks I think he’s the next coming of god then other weeks he’s so so disappointing. But after last year I thought he had no hope of ever holding down the number 1 ruck spot but after this year he’s obviously shown he can do it against good opponents - so that’s a big positive for our year.

He’s still young in ruck terms, at 26 he’ll be an absolute beast of a ruckman I think, we still don’t use him correctly though - I understand his strengths lay in what he does away from the contest and he can blow other ruckmen up with his tank, but it’s still in no one’s best interests to run him into the ground with 90% ruck time - it doesn’t do him or is any good. Look at Melbourne, Gawn could play 90% rucktime
Too but they don’t want him too to the extent they’re even sounding out Grundy for if Jackson goes.

Timmy would be such an asset in the right partnership, and yes that still means he can be our number 1 ruckman - just don’t grind him down to be a middle of the range generic ruckmen which is what we’re doing to him. Play him to his strengths and cover his weaknesses - this goes for everyone on the ****ing list but I feel Bevo is more inclined to try and win some small battles and make players face their weaknesses - to the detriment of the team.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

The English trade isn't that absurd. He signed a 2 year contract, highly likely he leaves at the end of that, so isn't it worth exploring trying to get something for him now and then find another ruck to develop?

He signed a two year contract because thats exactly what most of the games elite players do in the lead up to their free agency period.

That doesn't make them any more or less likely to leave.

The club is only just now seeing the befits of their wobbly ruck strategies bear fruit. Now is not the time to even think about trading one of the games rising ruckman with the attitude that you could simply replace him by picking another out of a tree.

Its difficult to fathom that anybody who supports our club would even consider the idea of trading English out given the historic difficulties we've had bringing ruckman into the place in recent years.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I think these are two completely separate arguments - no way are we trading English, but he’s obviously not had an AA year, although he very well could of if he stayed injury free.

I’m finding it so hard to properly rate Timmy, some weeks I think he’s the next coming of god then other weeks he’s so so disappointing. But after last year I thought he had no hope of ever holding down the number 1 ruck spot but after this year he’s obviously shown he can do it against good opponents - so that’s a big positive for our year.

He’s still young in ruck terms, at 26 he’ll be an absolute beast of a ruckman I think, we still don’t use him correctly though - I understand his strengths lay in what he does away from the contest and he can blow other ruckmen up with his tank, but it’s still in no one’s best interests to run him into the ground with 90% ruck time - it doesn’t do him or is any good. Look at Melbourne, Gawn could play 90% rucktime
Too but they don’t want him too to the extent they’re even sounding out Grundy for if Jackson goes.

Timmy would be such an asset in the right partnership, and yes that still means he can be our number 1 ruckman - just don’t grind him down to be a middle of the range generic ruckmen which is what we’re doing to him. Play him to his strengths and cover his weaknesses - this goes for everyone on the ******* list but I feel Bevo is more inclined to try and win some small battles and make players face their weaknesses - to the detriment of the team.

The chase of Lobb tells me we do want to use him correctly but just don't have the cattle. Our second rucks are either useless forward (Sweet, Martin) or poor in the ruck (Bruce, Schache, Cordy, Khamis) so it is hard to see what the right option is.

I understand your frustration - our unwillingness to play English fwd when paired with a genuine ruck this year has been irritating - but I think the core issue is that they really value what English brings to the centre bounce but don't have an ideal partner for him.

 

[Fossie 32]

I think far superior is a real stretch. You could make an argument each way that one is slightly better than the other (e.g. Young is still a better mark and arguably judge of when to mark or spoil).

Between Rds 11-16, Young was their full back in a defence where there was only one other “tall” and that alternated between Plowman, Marchbank, Durdin and Kemp. Of the games I saw, he did pretty well in most of them, but not all of them, as essentially the only key defender. Similar to how I’d expect Gardner to fare.

Lewy doing pretty well still - this week's ratings

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Can anybody confirm what our current main list/rookie structure is (i.e. who are our rookies?)?

Draftguru is normally spot on but I'm not sure it actually is this year.

 

[Ash1337]

Can anybody confirm what our current main list/rookie structure is (i.e. who are our rookies?)?

Draftguru is normally spot on but I'm not sure it actually is this year.

McComb, McNeil, Scott, Sweet, Roarke, *Buku, *Raak. Roarke, Sweet, McNeil I think have 1 more year.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

McComb, McNeil, Scott, Sweet, Roarke, *Buku, *Raak. Roarke, Sweet, McNeil I think have 1 more year.

Thanks a bunch - Parker is a rookie too, right?

Draftguru also has Gardner as Cat A which I am fairly certain is wrong.

 

[Lex22]

Most of West Coast's salary squeeze is surely due to older players. Gaff, Shuey, McGovern, Nic Nat, Yoe. They'd be crazy to let Barrass go but keep those blokes on a list that needs a full rebuild.

Can't see it happening. Happy to be proven wrong (very happy).

A lot would depend on how West Coast view this rebuild and keep in mind Barrass would be the only player mentioned above with any major currency.

It’s likely a 3-5 year exercise….would they not try bank a few high-ish draft picks and relieve salary cap pressure now?

It could set them up.

 

[Ash1337]

Thanks a bunch - Parker is a rookie too, right?

Draftguru also has Gardner as Cat A which I am fairly certain is wrong.

Yes forgot Parker. Gardner got upgraded.

 

[Sentinel]

Yes forgot Parker. Gardner got upgraded.

When? I don't think he did.

Sweet is an interesting one too, he was drafted at the end of 2018 meaning this is his 3rd and final year of his rookie status, but is contracted with us for another season. Which I guess means he needs to be upgraded at the end of the season, I don't think we can delist and re-rookie him when he holds a contract.

 

[VitalDread]

Can anybody confirm what our current main list/rookie structure is (i.e. who are our rookies?)?

Draftguru is normally spot on but I'm not sure it actually is this year.

Parker, McComb and Buku are our Cat A rookies, Raak is our Cat B rookie

 

[Ash1337]

When? I don't think he did.

Sweet is an interesting one too, he was drafted at the end of 2018 meaning this is his 3rd and final year of his rookie status, but is contracted with us for another season. Which I guess means he needs to be upgraded at the end of the season, I don't think we can delist and re-rookie him when he holds a contract.

I think he was mentioned being upgraded to the main list in the rookie draft results article on the dogs website?

 

[AFDogs]

View attachment 1479205This is Bont a long way off his best

Those are his season averages, how about the last 4-5 weeks?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Cool, so it seems like everyone is as confused as I am - at least it's not just me

 

[Ash1337]

Parker, McComb and Buku are our Cat A rookies, Raak is our Cat B rookie

Is that right and it turned out that all 2yr rookies were upgraded? I swear only Gardner was mentioned. The information is really spotty with list spots from the dogs but that was what I thought the the rookies were.