Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Foxman98]

Those are his season averages, how about the last 4-5 weeks?

Last 5 weeks 3rd best in the comp according to Champion Data behind Touk Miller and Rory Laird

 

[Sentinel]

I think he was mentioned being upgraded to the main list in the rookie draft results article on the dogs website?

Yeah you're right, at the bottom of this article. Good spot.

2021 Draft wrap: Dom Milesi on new Bulldogs

National Recruiting Manager Dom Milesi gives a rundown on the Bulldogs welcomed over the 2021 draft period.

www.westernbulldogs.com.au

 

[Sentinel]

Parker, McComb and Buku are our Cat A rookies, Raak is our Cat B rookie

We have 44 on the list in total. The rules are that a club can have up to 44, including 36-38 main list, plus up to 4-6 rookies taking main+rookie list to 42 total, and up to a further 2 Cat B rookies (taking the total to 44).

This means both Buku and Raak must both be Cat B still. We also must also have at least 4 Cat A rookies (but I think we actually have 6), which I believe are McComb, Scott, McNeil, Roarke, Sweet and Parker - and 36 main list players. Unless any 2 of those 6 have also been upgraded without mention.

So in summary:

• 36 main list
• 6 Cat A rookies (McComb, Scott, McNeil, Roarke, Sweet, Parker) - up to 2 of those might instead be on the main list
• 2 Cat B rookies (Buku, Raak)

 

[Libba39]

I don’t think we need any more poorly skilled players in the side. Strong pass for me.

Wow. I would not dismiss anyone so early. Rookies like Liam Picken and Dale Morris weren't renowned forntheir skills prior to being drafted.

On this basis I'm assuming you win't be batting an eyelid when Dunkley leaves...

 

[Golden_6]

Wow. I would not dismiss anyone so early. Rookies like Liam Picken and Dale Morris weren't renowned forntheir skills prior to being drafted.

On this basis I'm assuming you win't be batting an eyelid when Dunkley leaves...

People are constantly bemoaning Dunkley's skills in here but the difference is that he's an absolutely elite AFL player with one weakness. We already have a number of similar midfielders asked to play out of position with average to poor skills in West & Garcia. Those two are font of the queue to replace any output from Dunkley and both are far superior to a McPherson type.

I would then be looking at replacing that list spot with skillful and fast types if Dunkley were to leave. We have incredibly poor skills in the front half of the ground.

 

[Munnez]

That’s the scary thing we are making decisions on players both trading out, delisting and trading in WHEN the whole structure and way we play is messy in the head of our coach and assistants.

How you make decisions right now is beyond me

Maybe having the right personnel ie KPD like a Barrass will allow structures to be fixed. As we won't having to be covering for known Defensive issues, like our existing KPD being easily moved off the line.
Hears hoping anyway

 

[BLACAE]

We have 44 on the list in total. The rules are that a club can have up to 44, including 36-38 main list, plus up to 4-6 rookies taking main+rookie list to 42 total, and up to a further 2 Cat B rookies (taking the total to 44).

This means both Buku and Raak must both be Cat B still. We also must also have at least 4 Cat A rookies (but I think we actually have 6), which I believe are McComb, Scott, McNeil, Roarke, Sweet and Parker - and 36 main list players. Unless any 2 of those 6 have also been upgraded without mention.

So in summary:

• 36 main list
• 6 Cat A rookies (McComb, Scott, McNeil, Roarke, Sweet, Parker) - up to 2 of those might instead be on the main list
• 2 Cat B rookies (Buku, Raak)

I thought Rourke go a 2 year extension. It was a big thing because he had 7 x 1 year deals in a row.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sentinel]

I thought Rourke go a 2 year extension. It was a big thing because he had 7 x 1 year deals in a row.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

He did, but there was no mention of an upgrade to the main list. Roarke was re-rookied at the end of 2020 and extended 2 more years at the end of 2021. You can stay on the rookie list for 3 years without needing to be upgraded, re-rookied or cut, so he could fulfil the extension within the rookie period (again assuming he wasn't upgraded but there's no mention of that anywhere).

It's crazy that there the AFL doesn't put out a simple summary of each team's list each season on their website so this sort of stuff is clear, not like it should be held secret.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Its looks like Wally will be offered a new contract probably one year. Hopefully his foot op gives him more speed maybe he can get a turbo injection. Lack of speed has always been his major problem he has most other skills.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

We have 44 on the list in total. The rules are that a club can have up to 44, including 36-38 main list, plus up to 4-6 rookies taking main+rookie list to 42 total, and up to a further 2 Cat B rookies (taking the total to 44).

This means both Buku and Raak must both be Cat B still. We also must also have at least 4 Cat A rookies (but I think we actually have 6), which I believe are McComb, Scott, McNeil, Roarke, Sweet and Parker - and 36 main list players. Unless any 2 of those 6 have also been upgraded without mention.

So in summary:

• 36 main list
• 6 Cat A rookies (McComb, Scott, McNeil, Roarke, Sweet, Parker) - up to 2 of those might instead be on the main list
• 2 Cat B rookies (Buku, Raak)

Thanks for doing the legwork - I had a go myself and got very confused. Perhaps this post could be stickied?

Given the care that goes into the reporting, it's amazing to me that the rookie list even still exists.

 

[adogsfan5]

Its looks like Wally will be offered a new contract probably one year. Hopefully his foot op gives him more speed maybe he can get a turbo injection. Lack speed has always been his major problem he has most other skills.

Love Wally but I feel that’s a bad call for him personally and our list. Unless he finds a new role, he’ll be playing reserves. He could go and make a difference at a north/essendon.

 

[TedDougChris]

Love Wally but I feel that’s a bad call for him personally and our list. Unless he finds a new role, he’ll be playing reserves. He could go and make a difference at a north/essendon.

You say you love Wally, but then want him to play at North or Essendon.

Why do you hate Wally ???

 

[Foxman98]

Love Wally but I feel that’s a bad call for him personally and our list. Unless he finds a new role, he’ll be playing reserves. He could go and make a difference at a north/essendon.

They didn't want him last year why would they want him now? It is smart for us keep him as a coaching/mentor role out of the soft cap

 

[Chops]

English is in AA discussions and missed half the season any thought of trading him now is ridiculous he has broken out and will only get better

He shouldn’t be. Maybe as a follower but he has missed a heaps of games. Definitely not as a ruck as he he was smashed by Ried a few weeks back and a number of other rucks.
Broken out would mean he is dominating which he isn’t.

 

[VitalDread]

Don't forget

We don't get any compo for JJ if we sign Jones

 

[Chops]

Why is it highly likely? We have waited 5 years for him to develop and he is finally there so we go back to square 1?

Timid English will never be the ruckman we need.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Don't forget

We don't get any compo for JJ if we sign Jones

Not necessarily - JJ's contract would just need to value higher in the AFL's magical (read: entirely fictional) "algorithm." Jones would certainly dilute the compo though if his contract registers.

Clubs work this kind of thing out all the time though with good faith trades to avoid diluting compo.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Am I completely wrong in saying English has a LONG way to go before he can classed as an effective tap ruckman? He is a beast around the ground but like I said earlier I zero confidence in him getting our mids first use.

 

[adogsfan5]

You say you love Wally, but then want him to play at North or Essendon.

Why do you hate Wally ???

Don’t want him to go, but it would be better for his career if he wanted to play senior footy.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I completely wrong in saying English has a LONG way to go before he can classed as an effective tap ruckman? He is a beast around the ground but like I said earlier I zero confidence in him getting our mids first use.

It's certainly a weakness. I don't think he's as far away as it looks though. At the moment I would characterise his tap work as highly variable. There are periods (like the patch of 5ish mins against the Giants last week) where he looks exceptional, and periods where he is an utter liability.

I think having a clean run without injury, building more fitness, and having a capable partner that isn't a liability in there will go a long way. It is never going to be a strength but that's OK.

 

[doggies ftw]

I completely wrong in saying English has a LONG way to go before he can classed as an effective tap ruckman? He is a beast around the ground but like I said earlier I zero confidence in him getting our mids first use.

I’ve been critical of him (or more our use of him really) but he has had games where he’s given us first use majority of the day, or has broken even against some really good opponents - ie Darcy the other week who I rate very highly in the RC, he broke even with.

This is a big big improvement on previous years where he was pretty much bullied by every ruckman he would come up against.

What’s still an issue though is he has also had games where he’s been thoroughly beaten by shit ruckmen, ie Reid who wiped the floor with him a few weeks back. I’m just referring to his actual ruck contest work here btw not around the ground.

It feels like he tends to play up to the level required, ie this year he’s broken even or beaten the likes of Gawn/Jackson, Darcy, Hickey etc but hasn’t demolished and if anything has been beaten at times by nothing players like Reid, Stanley, Williams.

But overall it’s a huge step forward as I was starting to think he would never be able to compete with the best in the centre, I think he’s shown that he can. Now he has to work on the consistency and keep breaking even or beating those types, whilst learning to assert a real dominance over the minnows when he gets the chance. There’s no reason he shouldn’t be having 40HO/10+ to advantage games against part time ruckmen.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

It feels like he tends to play up to the level required, ie this year he’s broken even or beaten the likes of Gawn/Jackson, Darcy, Hickey etc but hasn’t demolished and if anything has been beaten at times by nothing players like Reid, Stanley, Williams.

It's an interesting observation. I actually think this is very similar to Sweet as well who seems to barely hang in there against good rucks for most of the game and then struggle against less talented ones. Combined with Beveridge suggesting we adjust our centre bounce strategy based on whether or not we expect to win the hitouts - I wonder if there is something in our offensive ruck approach that isn't really working. When forced to defend and nullify both look OK, but when attacking weaker opponents they have a lot of trouble. Or perhaps both of them are just better negating rucks and should employ that strategy no matter who they're up against.

 

[Libbaaaa]

I’ve been critical of him (or more our use of him really) but he has had games where he’s given us first use majority of the day, or has broken even against some really good opponents - ie Darcy the other week who I rate very highly in the RC, he broke even with.

This is a big big improvement on previous years where he was pretty much bullied by every ruckman he would come up against.

What’s still an issue though is he has also had games where he’s been thoroughly beaten by s**t ruckmen, ie Reid who wiped the floor with him a few weeks back. I’m just referring to his actual ruck contest work here btw not around the ground.

It feels like he tends to play up to the level required, ie this year he’s broken even or beaten the likes of Gawn/Jackson, Darcy, Hickey etc but hasn’t demolished and if anything has been beaten at times by nothing players like Reid, Stanley, Williams.

But overall it’s a huge step forward as I was starting to think he would never be able to compete with the best in the centre, I think he’s shown that he can. Now he has to work on the consistency and keep breaking even or beating those types, whilst learning to assert a real dominance over the minnows when he gets the chance. There’s no reason he shouldn’t be having 40HO/10+ to advantage games against part time ruckmen.

Pittonet and Nank tend to have their way with him and then like you mentioned Sam Reid utterly pantsed him by just taking the ball out of the ruck, or tackling whoever on our team got the ball.

 

[immortalmike]

Tim's biggest issue is that he doesn't like body contact. That's what hacks and part-timers are good at and rely on to compete, ergo he gets pantsed by them on the regular.
The best rucks usually try to beat him straight up.

 

[TiAn_]

It's an interesting observation. I actually think this is very similar to Sweet as well who seems to barely hang in there against good rucks for most of the game and then struggle against less talented ones. Combined with Beveridge suggesting we adjust our centre bounce strategy based on whether or not we expect to win the hitouts - I wonder if there is something in our offensive ruck approach that isn't really working. When forced to defend and nullify both look OK, but when attacking weaker opponents they have a lot of trouble. Or perhaps both of them are just better negating rucks and should employ that strategy no matter who they're up against.

I've previously theorised that English's improvement in getting his hand to the ball first, coupled with still being poor at directing taps to advantage, may actually have made things slightly less predictable and harder for our mids than they were when he was getting utterly pantsed in 2019 and 2020. Theory could be complete horse excrement though.