Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Golden_6]

I also think Power is struggling in his role. It could be part of a wider disconnect between the coach, list management team and the board. We keep hearing that he's a tough negotiate but he hasn't 'won' at the trade table in any of his recent deals. The Lobb, Sanders & Harmes trades all seem poor at this stage.

We've also got 3 high profile players still out of contract reasonably deep into the season. At present, he simply isn't getting the job done.

 

[Chalky White]

What would you prefer? I can't imagine we'll be able to fill an area of need from a mid-season pick.

Do we have to use it?

 

[Chalky White]

Watching NM and keeping an eye on Bigoa Nyuon. He reminds me of Dustin Fletcher. He's a very raw version, but he has that reach and speed.

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He's close to the worst player in the league.

 

[Bald]

I also think Power is struggling in his role. It could be part of a wider disconnect between the coach, list management team and the board. We keep hearing that he's a tough negotiate but he hasn't 'won' at the trade table in any of his recent deals. The Lobb, Sanders & Harmes trades all seem poor at this stage.

We've also got 3 high profile players still out of contract reasonably deep into the season. At present, he simply isn't getting the job done.

At the very least it’s FAR to early to call the Sanders trade poor, even if you’re qualifying it with a “at this stage”, remember we also acquired points for Croft in this trade as well.

Harmes trade cost us a future third. If we finish around 9th that’s pick 45 or thereabouts. Difficult personally for me to say this is a success or a fail. Contract not ideal.

Lobb trade I can’t criticise too heavily. If we didn’t do it, who is second ruck last year? It’s not Darcy. I don’t think this is a fail but the contract here isn’t ideal either, the difference here is there will be teams who are keen to take him off the books, meaning it’ll be the stop gap for Darcy that it was always intended to be - that this is happening sooner doesn’t make it more a failure, imo.

 

[Bald]

Do we have to use it?

No.

 

[Hobdog]

I really wouldn't be surprised if Bont throws an ultimatum at the end of the season , poor bloke looks mentally and physically spent. He has been looking seriously unhappy after losses and even on field since about halfway through 2023 saw it all over his face after the Eagles loss and the Bombers. I think he thinks the place is being run by morons

His demeanour has changed quite a lot I think. Looks really unhappy and frustrated. Not that that should come as a surprise given our performances.


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[Chalky White]

At the very least it’s FAR to early to call the Sanders trade poor, even if you’re qualifying it with a “at this stage”, remember we also acquired points for Croft in this trade as well.

Harmes trade cost us a future third. If we finish around 9th that’s pick 45 or thereabouts. Difficult personally for me to say this is a success or a fail. Contract not ideal.

Lobb trade I can’t criticise too heavily. If we didn’t do it, who is second ruck last year? It’s not Darcy. I don’t think this is a fail but the contract here isn’t ideal either, the difference here is there will be teams who are keen to take him off the books, meaning it’ll be the stop gap for Darcy that it was always intended to be - that this is happening sooner doesn’t make it more a failure, imo.

Oh I don't know, maybe Jordan Sweet who is doing quite well at Port Adelaide when given a go.

 

[Dogsfan1]

Oh I don't know, maybe Jordan Sweet who is doing quite well at Port Adelaide when given a go.

Because port have no rucks and Ivan is injured

 

[Bald]

Oh I don't know, maybe Jordan Sweet who is doing quite well at Port Adelaide when given a go.

You're right, you don't know.

 

[TiAn_]

I wonder how James Harmes would be feeling right now. He's not a world beater but it's clear Bevo sold him the dream which was never going to eventuate. It begs the question, why would we recruit him if this is how we intended to use him? This was even before Bailey Smith was injured who would be playing a very similar position.

We have our best inside mid out and getting carved up offensively through the middle and he still can't get any centre bounce time. He would've been better off staying at Melbourne.

My recollection is from the outset Harmes and Bev have spoken about him being used a half forward/wing and through the midfield and I recall they were both asked about Harmes doing a tagging role and at most said it was a possibility, but not why we primarily got him. I suspect we’ll see him in the middle more as he gets more games under his belt.

 

[geoffjennings79]

My recollection is from the outset Harmes and Bev have spoken about him being used a half forward/wing and through the midfield and I recall they were both asked about Harmes doing a tagging role and at most said it was a possibility, but not why we primarily got him. I suspect we’ll see him in the middle more as he gets more games under his belt.

If we're not using him to tag after 3 Dockers mids were racking possessions at will in q1 and q2 Saturday night, but trying Caleb Daniel tagging Serong off the half forward flank, I'd suggest Harmes will never tag, not even for a few minutes... while Beveridge is coach, at least.

 

[Unorth]

We have made several ‘win now’ moves and are far from winning now.

We did not trade away our 2024 pick expecting to be in a rebuild. If we did may as well just pack it in.

I didn’t like the trade at the time given where our form was headed - Sanders looks good but I think it’s very possible he’s a handball happy accumulator who may not impact the scoreboard as much as you’d hope. Not to misconstrue that as saying he’s a dud or anything close, but you have your Macrae types that can average 30 touches yet never cop a tag. If thats where he’s headed it can be a good pick but a bad trade if we cough up pick 6-8 or so. He will have to be a real game breaker to justify what we paid on current form. Yes there were Croft points involved, but we were looking to be opportunistic and grab a more immediate impact player to go with a developing tall in Croft.

Lobb and Harmes didn’t cost a fortune but they weren’t free. Dunkley trade we got bent over but were in a tough position.

Point is we’ve made some moves expecting to be more competitive than we have been.

Either Sam Power

Sam Power

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

has been way, way off in his evaluation of the list, or Bevo is wasting what the list management believe is a squad good enough to warrant selling out the future for.

Maybe it’s both. We’ve traded for Harmes and we’re not even using him in the one role he’s ever been decent at.

Seems to be a substantial disconnect or maybe Bevo is just making his ‘evolution’ angle up as he goes. Just don’t think we can make the moves that we’ve made and pan out as subpar as we are without consequences for the relevant people at the club. It’s all looking a bit cooked.

 

[TiAn_]

If we're not using him to tag after 3 Dockers mids were racking possessions at will in q1 and q2 Saturday night, but trying Caleb Daniel tagging Serong off the half forward flank, I'd suggest Harmes will never tag, not even for a few minutes... while Beveridge is coach, at least.

I agree, sending Daniel to Serong instead of using Harmes is bizarre.

 

[VitalDread]

Lobb deal make sense at the time

Dogs didn't expect Darcy to jump out of the gates so early

 

[yebach]

Because port have no rucks and Ivan is injured

And Lobb will probably spend most of the year playing VFL.

 

[TiAn_]

We have made several ‘win now’ moves and are far from winning now.

We did not trade away our 2024 pick expecting to be in a rebuild. If we did may as well just pack it in.

I didn’t like the trade at the time given where our form was headed - Sanders looks good but I think it’s very possible he’s a handball happy accumulator who may not impact the scoreboard as much as you’d hope. Not to misconstrue that as saying he’s a dud or anything close, but you have your Macrae types that can average 30 touches yet never cop a tag. If thats where he’s headed it can be a good pick but a bad trade if we cough up pick 6-8 or so. He will have to be a real game breaker to justify what we paid on current form. Yes there were Croft points involved, but we were looking to be opportunistic and grab a more immediate impact player to go with a developing tall in Croft.

Lobb and Harmes didn’t cost a fortune but they weren’t free. Dunkley trade we got bent over but were in a tough position.

Point is we’ve made some moves expecting to be more competitive than we have been.

Either Sam Power has been way, way off in his evaluation of the list, or Bevo is wasting what the list management believe is a squad good enough to warrant selling out the future for.

Maybe it’s both. We’ve traded for Harmes and we’re not even using him in the one role he’s ever been decent at.

Seems to be a substantial disconnect or maybe Bevo is just making his ‘evolution’ angle up as he goes. Just don’t think we can make the moves that we’ve made and pan out as subpar as we are without consequences for the relevant people at the club. It’s all looking a bit cooked.

I’m not sure there is a disconnect given how central Bev was in luring Lobb, Harmes, Bramble, etc. You only have to listen to the man himself that he doesn’t believe in ‘rebuilds’, so acquiring mature players while trying to rejig the team on the fly would fit.

I suspect both the admin and coach thought and probably still think that we make finals this year.

I have the same doubts as you on Sanders and said as much at the time. But as long as we finish 8-10th this year and he ends up a clearance machine, I think the trade to get up to 6 will be fine in hindsight.

 

[Mofra]

If we're not using him to tag after 3 Dockers mids were racking possessions at will in q1 and q2 Saturday night, but trying Caleb Daniel tagging Serong off the half forward flank, I'd suggest Harmes will never tag, not even for a few minutes... while Beveridge is coach, at least.

It was crazy. Especially from a coach who went hard tag in the 2016 GF after half time.
It seems he's forgotten his own lessons.

There is zero point in targeting a mature option to trade in, then refuse to use them for the reason you brought them in.

 

[geoffjennings79]

It was crazy. Especially from a coach who went hard tag in the 2016 GF after half time.
It seems he's forgotten his own lessons.

There is zero point in targeting a mature option to trade in, then refuse to use them for the reason you brought them in.

Exactly. As you say, 2016 GF, Liber went to Kennedy after half time and was instrumental in the outcome.
I think there might be one or two instances since, but I've lost count (I know I'm not alone there!) of how many oppo mids (or rebounding defenders, particularly from Geelong) dominate games, and Beveridge refuses to lock down on them.

 

[Smiley Boy]

I’ll genuinely fume if we piss away our midseason pick on another low-ceiling list clogger retread like Spicer.

Given Cody is most likely going to be out for most of the year it wouldn't surprise me

 

[TiAn_]

Given Cody is most likely going to be out for most of the year it wouldn't surprise me

Yep, if Cody’s out 12 then it’s now a likely outcome, unfortunately.

 

[Smiley Boy]

It bemuzes me why we dont use Harmes as a tagger / defensive mid he absolutely pantsed Libba in 2021 when he tagged him it makes 0 sense to why we dont use him in that role

 

[Wizard17]

Given Cody is most likely going to be out for most of the year it wouldn't surprise me

If we lose Cody for the year then if we go like for like in the msd Oskar Smartt is the obvious pick if he gets through Essendon or we finish below them.

Reminds me a lot of Cody

 

[Libbaaaa]

I’ll genuinely fume if we piss away our midseason pick on another low-ceiling list clogger retread like Spicer.

Yuck. He'll debut immediately too.

It bemuzes me why we dont use Harmes as a tagger / defensive mid he absolutely pantsed Libba in 2021 when he tagged him it makes 0 sense to why we dont use him in that role

It is beyond stupid.

 

[geoffjennings79]

It bemuzes me why we dont use Harmes as a tagger / defensive mid he absolutely pantsed Libba in 2021 when he tagged him it makes 0 sense to why we dont use him in that role

I've been asking this question ad nauseum.

Especially Sat night when Fyfe, Serong and Brayshaw were free wheeling through the first half.

Bevo's response: run Daniel off half forward to tag Serong AFTER each centre bounce!

Meanwhile Harmes contributes little running around wing/half forward.

I'd also like to know if anyone else in the box is suggesting Harmes and being over-ruled, or the rest of them agree with not using Harmes as a tagger?

 

[BulldogMuscle]

As of this morning, as I’ve been told.

Richmond, Melbourne, Saints are asking about Lobb
Both SA teams are asking about CD
North, Saints and Essendon are asking about Macrae

Dogs are looking to up their offer to Smith to 4 years + more money.
English is looking to be 5 on 900 odd
JUH 2 on 850ish

And I’d be slightly nervous around Bont if we don’t have a signature by Christmas…