Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
_Cerberus_ said:
Still not fully sold on Watson, not dismissing the the fact he is good, nor would I complain if we got him. But I think the cult around him is pumping him up more than he really is. He had a big national championships. But also has only 8 goals from 6 Coates league games so far, and in the bests just once.

Cameron and Papley, the two best smalls in the game were both rookie draft picks. Bolton went pick 29.

Smalls picked higher up in the draft rarely go on to the consistent level you need of high end picks. Pickett does stuff all most weeks, and then pulls the odd big one out of his ass, or snipes someone with a shoulder to the head. Weightman has long periods where he does nothing, before he hits his hot patches. Both were picked in the first rounds of their drafts. Clarke and Konstanty the two highest rated smalls last draft did not even debut at all this year and look like they have areas they need to improve on a bit. Jack Higgins went pick 17 and only kicked 3 or more goals three times this season, he has been a decent player but not pick 17 levels.

My concern is, is it worth trading up two first round picks, for a small forward who could get found out at AFL level size wise, and could be an inconsistent player like most smalls, when we have two bigger positions of need in MID and DEF? Just feels risky, then again all picks come with risks. But some positions seem to hold more so than others. If we are giving up a bit for pick 4, I'd be wanting someone who consistently lives up to playing like one.
Click to expand...

The thing is, you could make this same argument about every type of player. E.g. Josh Schache and Sam Weideman went top 10 and Nick Larkey and Mitch Lewis were picked in the 70s. It’s about picking the right player, full stop. It doesn’t matter what position they play.

Watson’s height adds a bit of risk that isn’t there for say, Duursma. But there’s enough players around that mark like Daniel, Baker, Pickett, Bolton, Walters, etc, that have been very effective. If he’s good enough he’s tall enough.
 
Based on what Sam power said regarding what we are looking for.. I think Zane Duursma fits the bill with his speed
 
I hope it is not lost on anyone that players that were too good for the VFL at our club and couldn’t establish themselves in our AFL team are in exactly the same position at their new clubs.

Case in point:

Josh Schache
Lewis Young
Will Hayes
Mitch Honeychurch
The list goes on…

Can people stop blaming irrelevant stuff like the match committee, Bevo, the medical team, training at Skinners reserve, super moons, Kane Cornes, Chris Grant, Barker’s cafe being closed during the upgrade, KWW not making enough public statements, Peter Gordon sending emails to Ameet Bains demanding action, reviews being conducted by club insiders when we don’t actually know that a review is being conducted and by whom, trading AA players because they aren’t good enough, trading players who played sore because they didn’t have a good season.

These players just aren’t good enough and we will see some more of them delisted this year.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

mattwa said:
He can't rebound and kick like Moore or mcgovern etc. He can intercept and then what? He's better suited forward
Click to expand...

This isn’t directly at u, but I don’t get people who say his kicking isn’t good enough for defence. Yet in the same sentence will say he should play high fwd because he has good skills for a tall.
Whoever said defenders needed to be able to kick? U just said he can intercept mark. That’s all we need.

Anyone remember a bloke called dale morris? Was poor/average skilled at best. BUT, he played within his limits and used the useable option or handballed to guys that could kick instead. You never saw dale try to hit a 35m dart on the 45 in between two oppo players. He’d hit a short wide, handball around the back or long down the line. That’s all naughts has to do. We have Ed, jj and dale at a minimum that can use it well enough, let alone mids dropping back.
Set up our defensive end now for the future. we have marra, Darcy, lobb and likely croft coming so we have plenty of options fwd.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Butabi Brothers said:
This isn’t directly at u, but I don’t get people who say his kicking isn’t good enough for defence. Yet in the same sentence will say he should play high fwd because he has good skills for a tall.
Whoever said defenders needed to be able to kick? U just said he can intercept mark. That’s all we need.

Anyone remember a bloke called dale morris? Was poor/average skilled at best. BUT, he played within his limits and used the useable option or handballed to guys that could kick instead. You never saw dale try to hit a 35m dart on the 45 in between two oppo players. He’d hit a short wide, handball around the back or long down the line. That’s all naughts has to do. We have Ed, jj and dale at a minimum that can use it well enough, let alone mids dropping back.
Set up our defensive end now for the future. we have marra, Darcy, lobb and likely croft coming so we have plenty of options fwd.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

And players were aware of Morris limitations and provided targets and options to accomodate.

Structure planning and everyone in sync that’s what you need.
 
TedDougChris said:
Without having any idea who is who in this years draft, my preference would be to try to get 17 up to before the expected bid for Croft, and take 10/11 into the draft, rather than upgrade those picks for one player.

Get two high end talents in if we can.

May not be possible, which I get, but this would be my preference (somehow)
Click to expand...
I like that idea but it looks like there are about 10 non NGA prospects before it really opens up so we'd have to try to trade up to a top 10 pick for it to be worthwhile.
Maybe Geelong would be interested in moving pick 7 back to get in some more assets.
 
Dog 36 said:
And players were aware of Morris limitations and provided targets and options to accomodate.

Structure planning and everyone in sync that’s what you need.
Click to expand...

100% agree re everyone in sync. Also just need everyone to play a role. We don’t need 22 players that can all use both sides (although it helps) or players to be able to play 12 positions. Why can’t we just have two tall defenders that actually just lockdown and defend and one intercepting tall that has skill. Then 3 small defensive ball users plus wings that actually work deep defensively.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
LittleG said:
Cordy has kept him out of the Saints side. Any player who is ranked below Cordy, shouldn’t be a target for us. Particularly one as well paid as Dougal Howard.
Click to expand...

Just wait until some spuds who can’t get a game at LOLNorf or the Hawks get delisted. Some posters on here will think they are worthy of a list spot with us.
 
Philthy1 said:
Just wait until some spuds who can’t get a game at LOLNorf or the Hawks get delisted. Some posters on here will think they are worthy of a list spot with us.
Click to expand...
Fingers crossed for Kayne Turner 🙏
 
Philthy1 said:
Just wait until some spuds who can’t get a game at LOLNorf or the Hawks get delisted. Some posters on here will think they are worthy of a list spot with us.
Click to expand...

I’d take anyone over carrying Gardner and keath into next year
 
Butabi Brothers said:
100% agree re everyone in sync. Also just need everyone to play a role. We don’t need 22 players that can all use both sides (although it helps) or players to be able to play 12 positions. Why can’t we just have two tall defenders that actually just lockdown and defend and one intercepting tall that has skill. Then 3 small defensive ball users plus wings that actually work deep defensively.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

Agree

Develop players to know how to play their position and what it encompasses and when.
Everyone knows their role and what it entails when.

Players need to be animals in their position and role.

Flexibility and Jack of all trades masters of none has confused our players and impacted our lack of game plan.

If B.Smithas an example is a wingman and he is out of form you don’t try him as a high half forward he goes to VFL to work on his position.

This has been lacking
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

_Cerberus_ said:
Still not fully sold on Watson, not dismissing the the fact he is good, nor would I complain if we got him. But I think the cult around him is pumping him up more than he really is. He had a big national championships. But also has only 8 goals from 6 Coates league games so far, and in the bests just once.

Cameron and Papley, the two best smalls in the game were both rookie draft picks. Bolton went pick 29.

Smalls picked higher up in the draft rarely go on to the consistent level you need of high end picks. Pickett does stuff all most weeks, and then pulls the odd big one out of his ass, or snipes someone with a shoulder to the head. Weightman has long periods where he does nothing, before he hits his hot patches. Both were picked in the first rounds of their drafts. Clarke and Konstanty the two highest rated smalls last draft did not even debut at all this year and look like they have areas they need to improve on a bit. Jack Higgins went pick 17 and only kicked 3 or more goals three times this season, he has been a decent player but not pick 17 levels.
Click to expand...
Rankine and Rachele both looking pretty good early in their careers. Weightman, Higgins and Pickett have all been perfectly fine for picks in the teens, plenty of flops in that range.

I can’t think of any small forward that’s been a big draft flop recently
 
Had a chuckle watching Hayden McLean last night and remembering that a few on here last year thought he was a spud and wouldn’t get games for us as a forward/ruck ahead of Zaine Cordy
 
What we think about Paddy Dow? Did not play again in Caaahltanz team - was killing VFL and is a solid body in the midfield?

Also - now that truck has signed and built his tank - is he ready for the guts? His decision making speed is a problem but he has very good hands and is a really solid fella - could be great for his development.

Now that Bevo has finally succumbed to playing West in the guts more and Darcy will have a full preseason - we could also try what I have wanted for a long time - playing Naughty in the guts for 5 min bursts - particularly when Bont is off of gone forwards. Our Martin, Papley, Petracca move. Petracca nearly one the game himself agains Collingwood with one burst of 10 mins.

JUH, Lobb and Darcy/Bont are plenty of height forwards / probably too much (never thought that before).

But - I am sick of us being bullied in the midfield. We want opposition to panic for a change but also want to have one trick - Bont - someone else needs to be able to go to the ball and change the direction of a game.

Interested in seeing who is delisted like all of us - only Hannan and Bruce so far.

Biggest question: Will this be the year when Darcy establishes himself playing 10-12 games+? If where/when Darcy plays is a part of this big question for us. Can’t play Naughty, Lobb, Darcy and JUH in the same forward line. Lobb has played well in the last couple of games particularly in the ruck where he has been a revelation but Darcy could be much more dangerous as a forward. Darcy can also play back but worry about our speed and in VFL he has been pushed forward indicating where the team needs him.

If/Then for me = if Smith can return to form then we play finals again. That simple - we are one more good mid away from elite.

Assumptions of what we should expect = Macrae, Naughty and Weightman were well below their standards in 2023 - will they bounce back?

Macrae hurt maybe the most because this put additional pressure on Bont - he seemed to be out of position playing HFF - when in the guts - when Bont was out of there he seemed to lift but Bevo only tried this late. Early in the year he didn’t and as soon as Bont sat down we fell over. I like the lines strategy from Ice Hockey - where you practice and play in mini-teams - so one team is English, Bont, Trelor and Libba and the other Team is Lobb, Macrae, Smith and West. They build chemistry as a unit - competition at training and can interchange players in their roles.

Next biggest question is - will someone West, García ?? step up as a genuine midfield player?? Even with Smith hopefully coming back to his best still leaves us a midfielder short. McComb and McNeil are likely delists. Really hope we also take Sullivan as Libba coverage.

Will we finally solve a couple of positional mysteries:

- small forward: hopefully Artie can get his mojo back. We look more dangerous when he is up and going. Charlie still looks a bit away and hasn’t yet shown he can take games apart. West could own this but will need him to play mid minutes.

- intercept marking 3rd tall defender. As above TOB hasn’t worked. Crozier appears to be out of favour but in fairness is too small. JOD has been very good and is holding this position but his height is much more KPD and likely will be needed for that. Raak has played some games there - as has Chatfield but neither are elite 10 mark playerk attacking players.

- Wing is our Hadron Collider - spinning magnets at near light speed: Williams, Baker, Poulter, A.Smith, Daniel, Jones, McNeil - no one has owned this position as a lock. Bedendo may be a solution but we should look to draft a star here - we should have at least one lock wing to move the ball and give us gut running. Roarke is always a maybe - has the talent but can’t stay on the park.

- Third tall forward: tried Hannan and shelved that idea. Khamis has shown glimpses and is getting the consistency to get there if he keeps getting improving - one facet at a time. Raak has been playing there and has really improved this year and add something as an almost tall winger like player. Bedendo may be the solution but can’t stay on the park. In VFL Goater has shown a lot.

- launch defender: if JJ is fit we are good. If not then VDM has been back up and while he has been ok it is certainly not a solution yet. Harvey G started injured but has looked OK in VFL.

- Doc 2.0 - with Crozier we should be Ok but we seem to feel he is not the solution. His speed is an issue and can make him look bad but he is very good in the air and reading the play so actually get there. Short story os that when we are without Doc - small forwards eat us alive. This is often where there are trade options - you want someone as a hard fully defensive mindset.

Hang-ons - we have a real experience/reliability problem in key defence. To play finals at least one of Jones and Keath has to play fit and in form - this year Jones injury hurt us badly but Keath’s confidence probably hurt as much. Both fit and firing is a top four pair but there is a very low chance of happening. JOD and Buss coming through is setting us up well for the future but they are two years away from being key defenders. Gardner gives us OK reliable depth. O’Brien has shown he is not a reliable option.
 
NthBondiDoggies said:
Also - now that truck has signed and built his tank - is he ready for the guts? His decision making speed is a problem but he has very good hands and is a really solid fella - could be great for his development.
Click to expand...
I'd like it if both truck and red had a trial in the mid.
 
Dougal Howard would slot nicely beside Jones and JOD.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

Mutt
Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)
316 317 318 319 320
Replies
8K
Views
449K
threenewpadlocks
threenewpadlocks
goodcop badcop
Analysis Draft, List and Trade Analysis
Replies
4
Views
1K
BIG_BONTS
BIG_BONTS
Mutt
Rules Posting Extracts or Articles From Sources Which May Breach Copyright
Replies
12
Views
662
Cookie
Cookie
VitalDread
List Mgmt. 2025 Draft Thread
Replies
5
Views
528
House_of_Dahl
House_of_Dahl
goodcop badcop
List Mgmt. 2024 Draft Thread
117 118 119 120 121
Replies
3K
Views
148K
VitalDread
VitalDread
Next Waiting
Opinion Dogs and Horses - The Racing Thread
9 10 11 12 13
Replies
305
Views
10K
King Harold
King Harold
dogwatch
List Mgmt. WB Off Season News Items 2024
Replies
10
Views
1K
geoffjennings79
geoffjennings79

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top