Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Mojorisin]

In a perfect world we would have, but without player approval our hands were tied. The Hawks most likely trade for him last year if he agrees to go there (not pick 4, that’s fantasy, but something decent) but Smith and Dunkley the year before made a calculated decision to wait until OOC so that they could minimise the return to the club.

This isn't completely true the club made the calculated decision on both players. Pushing for a premiership in contract years and try to convince them both to stay.
In Dunkley's case it nearly worked given we made the grand final, Smith obviously didn't get the chance given his ACL.

 

[Golden_6]

The lack of context in the tweet is the only thing bizarre

Clearly there's a lack of context and a bit of a coincidence but it really is a poisoned chalice. Libba has shown a few signs of being cooked later in the year but that's more to do with the fact he's 32 and had a significant injury history.

As someone else joked, it might be time to promote VDM to the vice captaincy.

 

[Doggy]

Exactly this.
Given Hawthorn's offer last year (their first pick for Smith and Lions pick) he should've been told to either re-sign and show his commitment or accept the Hawks offer.

That's still a pick upgrade.... he was worth a top 10 pick in his own right

 

[Mojorisin]

I actually went back and re-watched the Chris Scott interview on Monday after Bailey had informed the club he was leaving. When asked about Bailey he said “and there’s a fair chance that even if those conversations have happened that I’m not privy to it”
lol turn it up, Chris. We know lying is the second language of the AFL, but the cats take it to a whole new level. They couldn’t even be honest about Stewart last week when everybody in the footy world knew it was a hammy.

Also, I believe the last year of Butters’ contract is 2026 not next year.

I know for a fact Scott met with Bailey during last year's trade period.

 

[goodcop badcop]

In a perfect world we would have, but without player approval our hands were tied. The Hawks most likely trade for him last year if he agrees to go there (not pick 4, that’s fantasy, but something decent) but Smith and Dunkley the year before made a calculated decision to wait until OOC so that they could minimise the return to the club.

There was a lot of noise around this time on Smith, it was pretty obvious he wasn't happy with the club then. Geelong was also interested last year and I remember saying I was happy to let him go for Geelong's first pick plus steak knives last year.

 

[MaxiBont]

What's the context?

Hunter - Drink Driving and traded

Wallis - Made VC because he was a great clubman but injuries and form always meant he wouldn’t be around for much longer.

Macrae - Made VC after peak form, but now a 30 year old inside mid who isn’t an elite athlete and down on form. Hard to get into 22 with lots of good midfielders.

It’s all very explainable and hardly bizarre.

 

[Libbaaaa]

This isn't completely true the club made the calculated decision on both players. Pushing for a premiership in contract years and try to convince them both to stay.
In Dunkley's case it nearly worked given we made the grand final, Smith obviously didn't get the chance given his ACL.

Re: Dunkley I’m talking about at the end of 2022, he would have known he is gone but waited an extra year until he was OOC and then the cherry on top he picked a top 4 contender with crap picks.

Smith even pre ACL not signing the two years to take him through to RFA was immediately the nail in the coffin for any extension.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

I think the best we get for Bailey is the cats first round plus a future first round.

The very best we get for Jacko is a late first rounder mor likely earlier second.

 

[Mojorisin]

That's still a pick upgrade.... he was worth a top 10 pick in his own right

How much did we end up paying for a similar pick upgrade? That trade valued Smith well above what any trade this year will value him at.

Re: Dunkley I’m talking about at the end of 2022, he would have known he is gone but waited an extra year until he was OOC and then the cherry on top he picked a top 4 contender with crap picks.

Smith even pre ACL not signing the two years to take him through to RFA was immediately the nail in the coffin for any extension.

Dunkley was told he would not be traded under contract so didn't waste his time publicly seeking a trade in the final year of his contract.

Smith I agree should've been moved on last year after not extending but the clubs view was the same as in the Dunkley situation.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

If there is 2 sides to every story, I’d like to know what story 1 is first.

Story 1 - Baz wants out of the dogs.

Story 2 - The dogs only offered 2 years at $800K, others offered 5 years at $1M.

Story 3 - Somewhere in the middle. Baz is high maintenance, inconsistent, and coming off an ACL, so the club not willing to over commit. But Baz's best is top shelf, he's marketing dream, and others willing to take the risk.

 

[Mofra]

Zak Butters needs to be made a brand ambassador for Mission foods immediately.

I look for one look forward to the new Zako Buttero range of tortilla chips.

 

[VitalDread]

Exactly this.
Given Hawthorn's offer last year (their first pick for Smith and Lions pick) he should've been told to either re-sign and show his commitment or accept the Hawks offer.

Dogs were backing themselves to sign him to a longer deal
I rather them back themselves trying to keep talent than just flipping at the first sign of trouble


Once he did his ACL it was all over

 

[Mojorisin]

Dogs were backing themselves to sign him to a longer deal
I rather them back themselves trying to keep talent than just flipping at the first sign of trouble


Once he did his ACL it was all over

I definetly see the merit in the club's position and would agree in less complicated instances but in this case I would've gone the other direction given things public and private.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

It’s about time Clubs get some power back players have so much control and their managers

Speaking to a player manager on a semi regular basis and learning the tricks and bullshit they pull off that doesn’t even make the media, I couldn’t agree more.

The AFL really need to hand some power back to the clubs, let the AFLPA Bitch and moan all they want, if you want a true equal competition that’s what has to happen.

Power has shifted way too much in the players favour and it’s killing lists.

 

[go the dogs]

It’s still a lot for Geelong to risk on under the circumstances. Plus the multiple years etc.

If Macrae was out of contract, he’d probably be staying with us on minimum chips.

with us potentially but think you may be underselling him. Bevo has gone off him for whatever reason but i personally think he will still play pretty good footy for the next few years. Time will tell.

 

[VitalDread]

Speaking to a player manager on a semi regular basis and learning the tricks and bullshit they pull off that doesn’t even make the media, I couldn’t agree more.

The AFL really need to hand some power back to the clubs, let the AFLPA Bitch and moan all they want, if you want a true equal competition that’s what has to happen.

Power has shifted way too much in the players favour and it’s killing lists.

If AFL Shifts towards NBA trade without consent

It would take away all management power

 

[Sentinel]

This isn't completely true the club made the calculated decision on both players. Pushing for a premiership in contract years and try to convince them both to stay.
In Dunkley's case it nearly worked given we made the grand final, Smith obviously didn't get the chance given his ACL.

I think this is often missed about the Dunkley situation. We got 2 more years out of him, including a grand final season and a B&F season. Even if we ended up getting less for him at the trade table than we would have with Essendon's initial offer, his output in those 2 extra years (and the opportunity to back ourselves to change his mind) was probably more valuable than the difference between trade offers from 2020 to 2022.

 

[Mojorisin]

Speaking to a player manager on a semi regular basis and learning the tricks and bullshit they pull off that doesn’t even make the media, I couldn’t agree more.

The AFL really need to hand some power back to the clubs, let the AFLPA Bitch and moan all they want, if you want a true equal competition that’s what has to happen.

Power has shifted way too much in the players favour and it’s killing lists.

Should start by changing the rules around players requesting trades.
Players under contract should only be able to request a trade if the want out, with the club able to then trade that player to the club offering the best deal. Under extreme circumstances (like Hamling) players should be able to request a trade to a specific state but not a club. Players out of contract can continue to nominate club of choice.

Only a slight change and still keeps majority of the power with the player but gives contracts a bit more meaning.

While I was at it I'd also change free agency.
I'd remove all compensation and change the classification for free agency, I'd have all players who trigger free agency restricted free agents to clubs above their current club and Unrestricted to those below them.

 

[Foxman98]

Should start by changing the rules around players requesting trades.
Players under contract should only be able to request a trade if the want out, with the club able to then trade that player to the club offering the best deal. Under extreme circumstances (like Hamling) players should be able to request a trade to a specific state but not a club. Players out of contract can continue to nominate club of choice.

Only a slight change and still keeps majority of the power with the player but gives contracts a bit more meaning.

While I was at it I'd also change free agency.
I'd remove all compensation and change the classification for free agency, I'd have all players who trigger free agency restricted free agents to clubs above their current club and Unrestricted to those below them.

Free agency compo is a joke St Kilda get pick 8 for Battle yet we lose Smith for either nothing or shit from Geelong

 

[RWnBluey]

Should start by changing the rules around players requesting trades.
Players under contract should only be able to request a trade if the want out, with the club able to then trade that player to the club offering the best deal. Under extreme circumstances (like Hamling) players should be able to request a trade to a specific state but not a club. Players out of contract can continue to nominate club of choice.

Only a slight change and still keeps majority of the power with the player but gives contracts a bit more meaning.

While I was at it I'd also change free agency.
I'd remove all compensation and change the classification for free agency, I'd have all players who trigger free agency restricted free agents to clubs above their current club and Unrestricted to those below them.

Totally agree this should happen… after we land Butters.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Praying for Libba in 2025

Leading goal kicker was similarly cursed for a while.

 

[VitalDread]

Another Bulldog that’s been linked to a move away is Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

, but SEN’s Sam Edmund believes that the 2020 All-Australian wants to remain at the Whitten Oval and see out the remaining two years on his deal.

“This is to be confirmed by the club, and it is still to be confirmed by the player,” Edmund told SEN Breakfast.

“But I'm told Caleb Daniel

35

Caleb Daniel

Age

28

Ht

171cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

19.5

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

CL

1.0

3star

D

16.4

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

would prefer to stay at the Bulldogs, he has two years to run on his deal.

 

[adogsfan5]

Another Bulldog that’s been linked to a move away is Caleb Daniel, but SEN’s Sam Edmund believes that the 2020 All-Australian wants to remain at the Whitten Oval and see out the remaining two years on his deal.

“This is to be confirmed by the club, and it is still to be confirmed by the player,” Edmund told SEN Breakfast.

“But I'm told Caleb Daniel would prefer to stay at the Bulldogs, he has two years to run on his deal.

Cant gut the place too much.. happy for Caleb to stay.

 

[Hobdog]

AFL media industry is hugely oversaturated, leading to too many people chasing too few genuine stories. Even the slightest dubious suggestion of a ‘mass player exodus’ is going to be flogged to within an inch of its life until something else comes along. Even more so when some journalists and pseudo-journalists have a personal axe to grind with a club or individuals within a club. No point taking any of it personally. As for Smith, I don’t know the bloke but I’m guessing he’s pretty vain and sensitive to what people say about him, which means he’d be aware of comments critical of his trade request. Hence the ‘two sides to every story’ post. Most players with healthy self-esteem would just keep their thoughts to themselves and get on with it. I’m personally glad he’s going. Suspect he’s never been able to figure out if he’s an influencer that also plays a little footy or a footy player that dabbles in some brand recognition on the side.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Cudi]

Article in HS today that has said JJ is after a one year contract extension, and if he doesn't get it he will just retire. Does want to play anywhere else but the Dogs.