Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Here we go dogs]

I don't think dogs can have the luxury of having an older list. Especially when the scope of the game is changing to more & more run. Saw it in finals what happens to a team with an old list vs a younger list like hawks.

Yeah plus we can’t just trade in good younger players. Reality is we don’t land premium trade targets when we have competition.

 

[Freshwater]

Some fail.

But the following didn’t take us very far:

Pat Vezspremi

Nathan Djerrkurra

Justin Sherman

Ed Barlow

Mark Austin

Nick Lower

Koby Stevens

Tom Young

Sam Darley

Jed Adcock

Travis Cloke

Josh Schache

Jackson Trengove

Billy Gowers

Sam Lloyd

Mitch Hannan

Stefan Martin

Tim O’Brien

Ryan Gardner

These guys aren’t all fails. Three of them played in a winning preliminary final for us. Schache, Martin and Hannan. Doug Hawkins, Chris Grant, Brad Joshson, Scott West etc couldn’t achieve this. Jed Adcock as a former Brisbane skipper was an invaluable leader through 2016 and played in our VFL flag if I recall correctly? Trav Cloke was worth a try, Ryan Gardiner has had his own good moments.
Most fans problems are when players are projected on the team longer than their form warrants because of some feature us mortals can’t see eg VDM, McNeill. Even Hannan had his good moments but kept getting games even when form was sh$thouse etc. Selection integrity hasn’t been a strong point under Bevo.

 

[dogwatch]

Look at Collingwood, Geelong, I don't think clubs give a rats toss bag about age profiles anymore.

More than ever it's all in. It's thrash that car until its tyres are bald, the engine blown and smoke filling the inside.

Richmond!

 

[Wizard17]

Richmond!

Also what happened to the roos and they are still paying for holding on to an old list for far too long. Can't make the same mistake that they did.

 

[Fossie 32]

Richmond!

Good start to the day for Chicago1

 

[bulldogs54]

Look at Collingwood, Geelong, I don't think clubs give a rats toss bag about age profiles anymore.

More than ever it's all in. It's thrash that car until its tyres are bald, the engine blown and smoke filling the inside.

Teams such as Collingwood and Geelong can afford the luxury of being as old as they want because they constantly have a revolving door of quality players wanting to go there.

Clubs such as North Melbourne, ourselves and St.Kilda however struggle to attract quality senior players over on a regular basis and therefore the eventual fallout from being an older team when all the stars retire can last for 5 years or more.

 

[DannyB4]

We have midfielders leaving the club left, right and centre because they don't get enough game time in the middle and your solution is to... get more midfielders?

 

[BallaratBulldog]

We have midfielders leaving the club left, right and centre because they don't get enough game time in the middle and your solution is to... get more midfielders?

Trelaor is 31
Libba is 32

Even Bont is 29.

The need for young midfielders is pretty obvious. Sanders should hopefully be one of them.

Same for the backline with Jones and Lobb depending on ODonnel and Buss progression.

 

[Dogsfan1]

Trelaor is 31
Libba is 32

Even Bont is 29.

The need for young midfielders is pretty obvious. Sanders should hopefully be one of them.

Same for the backline with Jones and Lobb depending on ODonnel and Buss progression.

Do u forget we have fathersons in 2026 west and cooney there both midfielders

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Do u forget we have fathersons in 2026 west and cooney there both midfielders

I think it would be a risk to wait until 2026 and just assume they will be gun players let alone by the time they can get regular games in 2027/8.

 

[dogwatch]

Nobody has talked much about Sanders and the Tassy Devils. Isn’t he a flight risk when they get going?

 

[geoffjennings79]

The most followed(?) player out this year, to be replaced by the most fined player in AFL history next year.
Butters will be 25 at the end of next season, and 26 when he plays in our 2026 flag side.

I wonder if Buss would be interested in #6, I reckon ZB would have his eye on #5...

"I never lost faith in that dream"

As the AFL season kicks off for another year, we speak to Port rising star Zak Butters about his personal battles, his road to success and his burning desire to win.

salife.com.au

 

[DueWest]

Look at Collingwood, Geelong, I don't think clubs give a rats toss bag about age profiles anymore.

More than ever it's all in. It's thrash that car until its tyres are bald, the engine blown and smoke filling the inside.

Age profiles don’t matter as much now as you can put 5 to 7 years into players and they leave, in contract or not these days.

Problem will be unless Clubs get more power to hold onto players then they will not spend as much effort developing

 

[WB_]

I don't think dogs can have the luxury of having a older list. Especially when the scope of the game is changing to more & more run. Saw it in finals what happens to a team with a old list vs a younger list like hawks.

There is a shift in type of player and style of play, but that isn't necessarily the same as age. Some young players can be ill suited to the modern game style, and there are older players who are still fast and agile types.

 

[Wizard17]

There is a shift in type of player and style of play, but that isn't necessarily the same as age. Some young players can be ill suited to the modern game style, and there are older players who are still fast and agile types.

It is moving towards more of the high endurance types rather than just speed and agility because of the limited rotations on the bench. It is why clubs aren't too concerned about Langford running a treacle paced 20m at the combine because he covers the ground so well for long periods of time with his elite endurance.

 

[4Seasons]

Nobody has talked much about Sanders and the Tassy Devils. Isn’t he a flight risk when they get going?

I think he's a bit of a flight risk.
I also think that if we can keep him, he's going to take up a lot more cap space than some people might think.

 

[goodcop badcop]

It is moving towards more of the high endurance types rather than just speed and agility because of the limited rotations on the bench. It is why clubs aren't too concerned about Langford running a treacle paced 20m at the combine because he covers the ground so well for long periods of time with his elite endurance.

Would like to see some thorough evidence of this. I’ve done extensive analysis on the draft over the last 12 years on another thread, not specifically towards endurance, speed/agility athletes, but on position by position. In the last 5 years the rate of small forwards getting taken has gone up by 18%. Meaning 3 more small forwards are taken every year. What’s also interesting is the amount of small forwards taken in the middle of the draft from picks 20 -50 has almost doubled. This suggests to me that speed/agility is valued more by clubs generally speaking as small forwards are more your speed/agile type athletes rather than endurance types. The rate of midfielder’s taken is relatively the same.

Analysis - Draft, List and Trade Analysis

Been doing a lot of general draft analysis to try to see where things sit. Seeing where you can find value and trying to see if there's anything that's changed and if there's any current trend. I've done full analysis from 2012 - 2024. More specifically from 2012 - 2019 as you can't get a...

www.bigfooty.com

This is not to say endurance isn’t important or it's gone down in value. To me it looks like it's valued relatively the same. Langford and Bont's testing is not too dissimilar for example.

 

[Wizard17]

Would like to see some thorough evidence of this. I’ve done extensive analysis on the draft over the last 12 years on another thread, not specifically towards endurance, speed/agility athletes, but on position by position. In the last 5 years the rate of small forwards getting taken has gone up by 18%. Meaning 3 more small forwards are taken every year. What’s also interesting is the amount of small forwards taken in the middle of the draft from picks 20 -50 has almost doubled. This suggests to me that speed/agility is valued more by clubs generally speaking as small forwards are more your speed/agile type athletes rather than endurance types. The rate of midfielder’s taken is relatively the same.

Analysis - Draft, List and Trade Analysis

Been doing a lot of general draft analysis to try to see where things sit. Seeing where you can find value and trying to see if there's anything that's changed and if there's any current trend. I've done full analysis from 2012 - 2024. More specifically from 2012 - 2019 as you can't get a...

www.bigfooty.com

This is not to say endurance isn’t important or it's gone down in value. To me it looks like it's valued relatively the same. Langford and Bont's testing is not too dissimilar for example.

I was going off what I've seen with players that we have drafted over the last few years we have tended to go with the players that have a pretty good endurance base even amongst our smaller quicker players with Weightman probably one of the only exceptions.

You can select guys who have both aspects to their respective games though there are kids in the draft with the speed/endurance/agility combo for example Jasper Alger this year ranked inside the top 10 for speed and agility and just outside the top 10 on endurance at the National Combine this year. Cody Angove is another smaller forward/runner type outside mid that ran a very good endurance test. The boy we took last year as a small forward Aiden O'Driscoll also ran an elite endurance test alongside his quick 20m sprint.

On the other side of the fence, Cripps ran a 3.2 sprint at the combine, Kennedy ran something similar, Bont wasn't very quick either I think he ran a 3.1 or something similar? Also there are kids in this year's draft that have average speed but are highly rated for example Tobie Travaglia ran a 3.17 or something like that, Ough ran slightly faster a 3.15ish, Langford ran a 3.2. Still probably all going either top 20 (Travaglia and Langford) or on the edge of 30 (Ough).

I'm not saying that speed and agility aren't important to the modern game but there are other factors involved too. Getting list balance over the next 3 or so seasons is going to be interesting because we are deficient in younger players in quite a few areas due to being such an old list.

 

[adogsfan5]

Could we see more of West in the middle next year alongside Sanders? I wouldn’t discount him as being an eventual midfielder to replace Libba.

 

[Wizard17]

Could we see more of West in the middle next year alongside Sanders? I wouldn’t discount him as being an eventual midfielder to replace Libba.

It is something that I see as being possible but we also seem to like playing him as a defensive forward or the +1 who pushes up into the midfield from half forward at the moment

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Have we finished delisting/retiring now?

 

[CDBulldog]

To me, we just need one more quality young mid for the next 2-3 years. Bont, Red, Sanders, Garcia. As much as I think wing is his long term role, I’d like to see Freijah given a go in the middle. Has all the qualities you want. Good in a contest, cool under pressure, big body, quick enough. If it works out our midfield is sorted.

 

[perro_loco]

Freijah is the main man for me. Bont on steroids!!!

 

[Testekill]

Have we finished delisting/retiring now?

At this point I don't think we have anyone else out of contract.

 

[grassman75]

Also what happened to the roos and they are still paying for holding on to an old list for far too long. Can't make the same mistake that they did.

Except they have now traded old guys back in again and are right back where they were when they kicked the quartet out in one year….except they are shitter than then