Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[doggy_dog]

There’s not a hell of a lot of options if we did chase another ruck.

Maybe Reilly O’Brien? Not sure he really offers much more than English

If Nankervis wanted out of the Richmond rebuild he’d be absolutely perfect, but has his flags already and is their captain so would be a huge shock

Sean Darcy very risky, high price tag and can’t get on the park

I wanted us to go hard at Moyle before he re-signed but seems he’s happy to bide his time at GC. Witts is still playing very well though so maybe his head could be turned.

Nick Madden at the Giants is a sneaky one for me, although completely untried at AFL level. They also just opted to ruck Lachie Keefe so clearly don’t think he’s ready yet

All of this is contingent on us pushing Tim out anyway, and if we didn’t do this when he was out of contract I don’t really see us doing it now

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Ajang Kuol Mun looks good for our mid season draft pick, if we are looking for another ruck option.

Still raw but 22/23, and developing quickly.

 

[VitalDread]

Don't forget

AFL media also trying to push Bont leaving narrative

Mitch Cleary stating on Tradies

Uncertainty around the playing list and coaching decision may be a reason for why Bont hasn't signed yet

He expects Bont to stay but expects club to offer 1.5.1.6 to lure Bont out

 

[JohnnySteel]

Lachlan Smith is improving rapidly. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him ready to play AFL next year.

 

[Unorth]

Mitch Cleary stating on Tradies

Uncertainty around the playing list and coaching decision may be a reason for why Bont hasn't signed yet

He expects Bont to stay but expects club to offer 1.5.1.6 to lure Bont out

If you remove the captaincy from the conversation we don’t exactly have a terrific case for the Bont. We’ve gone nowhere in the last few seasons, don’t win enough games to get him Brownlows, lost Dunkley, Baz and soon to be Marra for underwhelming draft pick returns, and we have a coach sitting out of contract in his last year. Between Stringer, Hunter, Bailey Smith and JUH there have also been too many seasons with bad egg distractions occurring. Not comparing outcomes or situations directly - but the fact is we seem to invite these controversial situations and at this point I’m not willing to put it down to bad luck.

The captaincy is obviously a factor in it all but we haven’t capitalised on his prime (Yes he has a flag. No at that point he was not in his prime - it was ahead of schedule. It was also nearly 10 years ago). Unlike some supporters he may not be happy finishing 8th or 9th and flaming out every season. And it’s not on him at all that this is occurring - the clubs actions aren’t really mirroring his desires to do more and consistently go further.

If there’s big money coming from a more successful club he would have some thinking to do. He has multiple brownlows if he has a few top 4 finishes. It’s not on him that we haven’t achieved that.

 

[Mofra]

Mitch Cleary stating on Tradies

Uncertainty around the playing list and coaching decision may be a reason for why Bont hasn't signed yet

He expects Bont to stay but expects club to offer 1.5.1.6 to lure Bont out

Underpaid when clubs are circling Harley Reid for similar/higher deals.

 

[Bald]

If you remove the captaincy from the conversation we don’t exactly have a terrific case for the Bont. We’ve gone nowhere in the last few seasons, don’t win enough games to get him Brownlows, lost Dunkley, Baz and soon to be Marra for underwhelming draft pick returns, and we have a coach sitting out of contract in his last year. Between Stringer, Hunter, Bailey Smith and JUH there have also been too many seasons with bad egg distractions occurring. Not comparing outcomes or situations directly - but the fact is we seem to invite these controversial situations and at this point I’m not willing to put it down to bad luck.

The captaincy is obviously a factor in it all but we haven’t capitalised on his prime (Yes he has a flag. No at that point he was not in his prime - it was ahead of schedule. It was also nearly 10 years ago). Unlike some supporters he may not be happy finishing 8th or 9th and flaming out every season. And it’s not on him at all that this is occurring - the clubs actions aren’t really mirroring his desires to do more and consistently go further.

If there’s big money coming from a more successful club he would have some thinking to do. He has multiple brownlows if he has a few top 4 finishes. It’s not on him that we haven’t achieved that.

I think at times there’s a little bit of pessimism about our club as a whole.

Every club has their off field issues. I think we focus on ours a bit because we love and support the club, but for every one of our Jake Stringers, there’s a Richmond with Sydney Stack, or Geelong with Tyson Stengel, Collingwood with De Goey, etc. I think if you looked at the past 8 premierships you could find at least 1 player in each team that has been a “bad egg” at times. The difference with us is that we actually decide that enough is enough and move players on.

In Bont’s time as an active footballer in the AFL there have been very few clubs that have achieved what we have from an on field perspective. Two grand final appearances and a premiership. The only other clubs that have done that are Brisbane, Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond. I realise it’s a consistent theme of getting bundled out of finals in the first round every year, and we should strive for better, but if you’re looking at the competition as a whole and what they offer, there are certainly more worse options than good.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Absolutely zero chance Bont is not planing for us in 2026.

 

[TiAn_]

I think at times there’s a little bit of pessimism about our club as a whole.

Every club has their off field issues. I think we focus on ours a bit because we love and support the club, but for every one of our Jake Stringers, there’s a Richmond with Sydney Stack, or Geelong with Tyson Stengel, Collingwood with De Goey, etc. I think if you looked at the past 8 premierships you could find at least 1 player in each team that has been a “bad egg” at times. The difference with us is that we actually decide that enough is enough and move players on.

In Bont’s time as an active footballer in the AFL there have been very few clubs that have achieved what we have from an on field perspective. Two grand final appearances and a premiership. The only other clubs that have done that are Brisbane, Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond. I realise it’s a consistent theme of getting bundled out of finals in the first round every year, and we should strive for better, but if you’re looking at the competition as a whole and what they offer, there are certainly more worse options than good.

Aside from 2021, we’ve essentially been slightly more successful than the Bombers from 2017-2024, with us being as the tail of the top 9 teams from that period and them being the best of the rest based on H&A record:

Ranked by 2017-2024 H&A records:

1. Cats 115-2-56 (1x flag, 9x finals wins, 6x top 4)
2. Power 111-62 (0x GF, 3x finals wins, 4x top 4)
3. Lions 101-1-71 (1x flag, 9x finals wins, 4x top 4)
4. Swans 101-1-71 (2x GF, 5x finals wins, 2x top 4)
5. Magpies 100-4-69 (1x flag, 8x finals wins, 4x top 4)
6. Demons 100-1-72 (1x flag, 5x finals wins, 3x top 4)
7. Tigers 95-4-74 (3x flags, 10x finals wins, 4x top 4)
8. Giants 93-4-76 (1x GF, 8x finals wins, 1x top 4)
9. Bulldogs 92-79 (1x GF, 3x finals wins, 0x top 4)
—
Bombers 82-2-89
Dockers 79-2-92
Saints 79-1-93
Hawks 77-3-93
Eagles 75-98 (1x flag, 5x finals wins, 1x top 4)
Crows 74-2-97 (1x GF, 2x finals wins, 1x top 4)
Blues 68-1-104
Suns 55-1-117
Roos 43-1-129

I don’t think for a second he’ll go, but the suggestion he might not think we’re the best bet to maximise the rest of his career isn’t crazy. Will be interesting to see how this year plays out.

 

[Unorth]

Absolutely zero chance Bont is not planing for us in 2026.

I agree but I would hope he’s making the club sweat a bit so they don’t get comfortable in their decision making.

I’m sure we’re coming to the table with the dollars. Just need to up our trajectory results wise.

 

[Smiley Boy]

Mitch Cleary stating on Tradies

Uncertainty around the playing list and coaching decision may be a reason for why Bont hasn't signed yet

He expects Bont to stay but expects club to offer 1.5.1.6 to lure Bont out

Bont has set himself up very well outside of football i don't think a few extra hundred k would be enougn to pry him out of the club

 

[Foxman98]

Bont has set himself up very well outside of football i don't think a few extra hundred k would be enougn to pry him out of the club

Can also walk into any media gig he wants with a blank cheque

 

[VitalDread]

Bont has set himself up very well outside of football i don't think a few extra hundred k would be enougn to pry him out of the club

been meaning to check out his business in Camberwell

 

[Munnez]

Back to the list stuff.

With Lachie Smith showing decent progress, do we still target a ruck in the MSD?

I'm not sure there are any state league prospects that move the needle for us.

Gardner's back playing defense for our VFL side and from what I could see in the event of catastrophe I'd have Buss well ahead of him.

Jacques might make a BP less of a desperate need although he's more an early career Ed Richards type based on his form last year.

If we can identify a Ruck that we would play I would say yes. Smith is developing probably ahead of expected schedule but not yet ready to handle the 1st Ruck mantle at AFL Level.
Don't know of any ready made prospects out there. Maybe Small defender as a probable target come MSD

 

[dogwatch]

If we can identify a Ruck that we would play I would say yes. Smith is developing probably ahead of expected schedule but not yet ready to handle the 1st Ruck mantle at AFL Level.
Don't know of any ready made prospects out there. Maybe Small defender as a probable target come MSD

Not saying it won't ever happen, but ...

Can you describe to me the sort of junior or emerging (or even semi-retired) ruckman that Bevo would select in the seniors alongside English?

I'm finding it hard to visualise what that would look like. It seems they all have to have other day jobs (like KPF, KPD, tall midfielder, intercepting HBF) and are only allowed to chop out for English for brief stints while he's on the bench.

The only one I can think of is Stef Martin which was a short-lived experiment. And it was probably only made possible because Martin was already 34 and on his way out to pasture when he joined us for his 13 game career in the RW&B. Any serious long-term competitor for the #1 ruck role seems to be off limits.

This has been a chronic concern (I'm tempted to say "failing") for almost the entire Bevo era.

 

[DiamondDogs8]

Cheat code.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

View attachment 2262007
Cheat code.

If he gets umpired fairly that is!

 

[doggie dog]

View attachment 2262007
Cheat code.

In the F/S thread, majorisin said Max is the better brother at the same age
Sam and Max rotating through Foward and Ruck for years to come.
Thank you Luke and you wife for your amazing DNA

 

[doggiesin08]

In the F/S thread, majorisin said Max is the better brother at the same age
Sam and Max rotating through Foward and Ruck for years to come.
Thank you Luke and you wife for your amazing DNA

In fairness, Sam starting his top age year projecting as a 3rd rounder before shooting up the order. Admittedly he didn’t have a bottom-age year in the Under 18s due to COVID but even still the 15 year-old comparison might not project to adulthood.

 

[Pencil case]

How old is Max? Haven’t heard much about him.

 

[Mofra]

Not saying it won't ever happen, but ...

Can you describe to me the sort of junior or emerging (or even semi-retired) ruckman that Bevo would select in the seniors alongside English?

I'm finding it hard to visualise what that would look like. It seems they all have to have other day jobs (like KPF, KPD, tall midfielder, intercepting HBF) and are only allowed to chop out for English for brief stints while he's on the bench.

The only one I can think of is Stef Martin which was a short-lived experiment. And it was probably only made possible because Martin was already 34 and on his way out to pasture when he joined us for his 13 game career in the RW&B. Any serious long-term competitor for the #1 ruck role seems to be off limits.

This has been a chronic concern (I'm tempted to say "failing") for almost the entire Bevo era.

We chased Martin years before he came to us too.
We chased Soldo as well.

I think a developed Lachie Smith is the 'type' Bevo would want in an ideal world - someone who can follow up at ground level but still contribute in possession chains and rest forward. It's a big ask.

 

[Mr. Walker]

How old is Max? Haven’t heard much about him.

I heard Max did a faster beep test than Gout Gout in his under age year.

 

[Unorth]

We chased Martin years before he came to us too.
We chased Soldo as well.

I think a developed Lachie Smith is the 'type' Bevo would want in an ideal world - someone who can follow up at ground level but still contribute in possession chains and rest forward. It's a big ask.

What Bevo wants with the ruck position is to reinvent the wheel. Has pretty much been the case since day 1 when he was playing Ayce Cordy over Will Minson.

Tim has always been a pet project for Bevo, we gifted him a lot of games very early to try and fast track him.

Whether or not Tims decline is concussion related (it probably at least partially is), at this point it’s hard to call the experiment a success.

Most clubs are not this picky with rucks and history would suggest it’s simply not a position you need to spend on or complicate that much.

Some rucks are worth big bucks as game winners - ie Gawn - but…think that applies to very few.

I think it’s one area that we really gave Bev too much influence in, in terms of list management.

Roughie and (cooked) Stef Martin were great compromises, and it’s funny that our strongest form under Bevo (aside from 4 weeks in 2016, also obviously without Tim) was in 2021 with Martin and English in the same side. Even in the first few finals we sacrificed Lewy Young just to keep that structure.

Our record with Sweet playing was a small sample but also quite good. Our brief flirting with Crossley is also interesting.

We basically ignored all that to go sunk cost on English, at a point we need to be brave like Collingwood were with Grundy.

Still plenty of games to go in 2025, and Tim has no real competition for his spot (probably by design), so he’ll get the chances to pick up his form.

 

[goodcop badcop]

In the F/S thread, majorisin said Max is the better brother at the same age
Sam and Max rotating through Foward and Ruck for years to come.
Thank you Luke and you wife for your amazing DNA

Maybe it's true, no idea. But I heard the same thing about Libba and Wallis' brother's and they couldn't make it on an AFL list lol.

 

[weltschmerz]

Maybe it's true, no idea. But I heard the same thing about Libba and Wallis' brother's and they couldn't make it on an AFL list lol.

The West twins too