Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[yebach]

All this talk about speed and pressure is getting me excited.

Why don't we make a play for Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

and Zak Jones

3

Zak Jones

Age

29

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.1

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.1

4star

CL

4.9

5star

D

7.0

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.6

4star

CL

1.0

3star

as they are both quick and both can tackle better than VDM?

And no, VDM is not a better player than either of those guys.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Cal Twomey said this on SEN Breakfast today

Caleb Daniel & Jack Macrae (Western Bulldogs)

On Daniel’s future and Macrae’s potential St Kilda move:

“He is unlike Jack Macrae in that he hasn’t requested a trade and certainly hasn’t nominated any preferred home.

“I still think there’s potential for something later in the trade period but not a pressing one at the moment.

“We know Macrae said last week he’s requesting a trade and this week nominated St Kilda officially as his new home.

“I’m fascinated to see how that one plays out given he’s got three years to run on his contract at the Dogs. They’re not pushing him out, but also the Saints won’t want to give up any strong draft capital because they’re keen to lock in some young talent.”


Riley Garcia (Western Bulldogs)

On interest from multiple clubs:

“He’s got some interest out there. He’s got a two-year offer from the Bulldogs.

“Port Adelaide, West Coast, North Melbourne (and St Kilda) have all had a look at him at different points, so he’s got a decision to make.”

 

[Testekill]

What are peoples thoughts on Matt Kennedy from Carlton... i know his 27 but if you could pick him up for peanuts could he be an inside bull for us while sanders develops? Lets not forget Libba is getting on

I think he's like Anthony Scott where he's not the best player but he goes out and fills whatever role needs to be filled. He's someone that most clubs would be happy to have on a rookie list but also won't exactly be falling over themselves to pick up.

 

[Foxman98]

All this talk about speed and pressure is getting me excited.

Why don't we make a play for Dylan Shiel and Zak Jones as they are both quick and both can tackle better than VDM?

And no, VDM is not a better player than either of those guys.

VDM is a better pressure half forward then both and no its not close

 

[yebach]

VDM is a better pressure half forward then both and no its not close

VDM runs fast. That's about it.

 

[yebach]

VDM is a better pressure half forward then both and no its not close

How would you know as the players I mentioned haven't played in those roles?

 

[Cudi]

VDM runs fast. That's about it.

You've just exactly described Zac Jones.

He is also 30 next year and just a bad if not worse kick and decision maker than VDM

 

[Mofra]

You've just exactly described Zac Jones.

He is also 30 next year and just a bad if not worse kick and decision maker than VDM

And more injury prone as well

 

[yebach]

You've just exactly described Zac Jones.

He is also 30 next year and just a bad if not worse kick and decision maker than VDM

But he's fast!

 

[Mojorisin]

But he's fast!

Is he even fast anymore?

 

[yebach]

If it was unclear. I was being facetious.

Now. In all seriousness. For the VFL watchers.
Is Dom Brew worth a spot on our list?

 

[Snarls Barkley]

If it was unclear. I was being facetious.

Now. In all seriousness. For the VFL watchers.
Is Dom Brew worth a spot on our list?

Can't say I watch any non-Footscray VFL.

I would say it depends. It seems like he definitely deserves a spot somewhere but I'd only want to recruit him if he is going to play the position he dominated VFL, I think it's probably been shown that recruiting guys who rack up massive inside midfield numbers at state level, generally haven't succeeded when asked to play on the wing or flank at AFL level. With Sanders probably demanding more inside time from next season it might be questionable whether we need a ready made inside midfielder.

 

[Unorth]

It’s good that our much maligned ‘bottom 6’ is now more of a bottom two. In our final H&A season of 2022, we were playing Vdm, Roarke, Cordy, Gardner, McComb, and (inexplicably) the walking corpse of Josh Bruce

17

Josh Bruce

Age

32

Ht

198cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

90.4

1star

D

8.9

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

5.4

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

90.4

2star

D

11.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

. 2023, it was Baker, McLean, Poulter, Crozier, VDM, Scott.

Rightfully our last 6 or so picked in those two seasons was discussed a lot here. Looking back, it’s obvious why. Those players were either delisted/retired or are (except for VDM) out of the side altogether as of the conclusion of our 2024 season.

So as the side has gotten stronger we turn our attention to the two weakest players of our “best” side. VDM and McNeil. In a sense it’s a positive sign even if we do talk about these particular two players a lot.

Not sure anyone is blaming them entirely for the loss. Or saying they aren’t trying. It is true that our “top 6” deserve a lot of heat. Realistically though, those are not positions we can improve on. We can’t and obviously won’t replace Libba, Adz, Bont, Ed, Tim, Dale, Marra etc.

We can however replace the (harshly worded but true) replaceable players and hope to get more production out of those spots. No point hanging on about what they can’t do, we’re all well aware at this point. They are playing an unrewarding role as instructed and have gained the respect of the coaches. Fair enough. But they are also quite obviously the two positions with the most room for improvement for our round 1 side of 2025. And as of right now, aside from having hopes for AJ, they have zero competition. That’s probably why they get discussed a lot more.

Without jumping at shadows, let’s see what plays out, I’ll just say it should be concerning if the view is our preferred 2024 side is worth rolling back out in round one 2025. You might assume Sanders and Buss are in the side, at someone’s expense, but those aren’t positional weaknesses at all. There are positions of concern that have remained constant for a number of years now and Power needs to get on top of it. This is possibly the worst era to be sitting back and pinning hopes on fringe players developing into something more. It’s wide open and most good sides recognise that.

Not saying the solution is to go full Dodo and win trade week, but if we can pull off something even close to another Keath/Bruce deal - immediate upgrades in areas of need with established players - our chances of finishing top 4 (therefore winning a flag) go up dramatically given our best team is mostly pretty solid as is. Bruce and Keath didn’t get the accolades and wouldn’t be considered A graders by most but think about who they replaced and the impact that had. Rachele would probably be a good example of what we could do there.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

It’s good that our much maligned ‘bottom 6’ is now more of a bottom two. In our final H&A season of 2022, we were playing Vdm, Roarke, Cordy, Gardner, McComb, and (inexplicably) the walking corpse of Josh Bruce. 2023, it was Baker, McLean, Poulter, Crozier, VDM, Scott.

Rightfully our last 6 or so picked in those two seasons was discussed a lot here. Looking back, it’s obvious why. Those players were either delisted/retired or are (except for VDM) out of the side altogether as of the conclusion of our 2024 season.

So as the side has gotten stronger we turn our attention to the two weakest players of our “best” side. VDM and McNeil. In a sense it’s a positive sign even if we do talk about these particular two players a lot.

Not sure anyone is blaming them entirely for the loss. Or saying they aren’t trying. It is true that our “top 6” deserve a lot of heat. Realistically though, those are not positions we can improve on. We can’t and obviously won’t replace Libba, Adz, Bont, Ed, Tim, Dale, Marra etc.

They’re definitely getting more criticism but I don’t think the other ‘bottom Sixers’ have been spared. Harmes has been getting a bit of stick, Gallagher has been getting a lot but there is a more understanding long term view on him, O’Donnell the same. Daniel is probably technically another bottom six guy but Bramble is probably the more notionally recognised one but think nearly everyone has come around on him and enjoyed the season he compiled. English has probably copped the biggest criticisms, for the final and season as a whole, and rightfully in my opinion.

With JOD, I thought he had a really poor season as a whole. He had some complications that held him back I understand but other than the two games before finals I didn’t like his season and then really really struggled in that final. Unless he has the greatest preseason of all time and maybe even then, I don’t want to see him in the round 1 side. I think he has potential but he’s been given a lot of games off potential now, it’s probably time that he really needs to earn his spot. I think he will become a good player and more than anything I’d like to see him have 12 months unhampered.

 

[Ash1337]

Is he even fast anymore?

I think the last game I saw him play he looked like he lost some pace.

 

[ArNcHiSe]

You know you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel of defending VDM when you basically say his important role to the team is he occasionally runs fast. Much rather a guy who runs slower but can tackle and crumb goals than a guy who occasionally runs fast and that’s it.

 

[yebach]

You know you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel of defending VDM when you basically say his important role to the team is he occasionally runs fast. Much rather a guy who runs slower but can tackle and crumb goals than a guy who occasionally runs fast and that’s it.

Or even a guy that can kick a goal from 20 metres out.

 

[Afro_dog]

Blaming the bottom 6 is what we're taking about. Really, the last few guys picked don't move the needle much.
If English grew a pair that final, we'd improve far more than the incremental improvement we'd get by swapping a few role players.

Jones & Libba concern me too. Father time can make an appearance rather quickly.
Fortunately we do have kids who can start to cover them (Sanders and Buss) and both were in excellent VFL form late season too

Jones was really poor in the EF. His limited disposal also worries me. Thankfully Buss is starting to look the part and would help with transition ball movement.

On Libba, kind of sacrilegious to say but I feel like the end will come quicker for him given the artritional way he played the game. I know we can't play both him and Macrae in the same team, but part of me thinks we shouldn't accept poor draft capital from Saints, as I think Jack could easily play another 100+ games.

 

[WAbulldog]

Riley Garcia (Western Bulldogs)

On interest from multiple clubs:

“He’s got some interest out there. He’s got a two-year offer from the Bulldogs.

“Port Adelaide, West Coast, North Melbourne (and St Kilda) have all had a look at him at different points, so he’s got a decision to make.”

Have a gut feeling that Garcia is going to want out but hope he stays on board.

 

[Mofra]

Or even a guy that can kick a goal from 20 metres out.

That's a few players, sadly. Marra a chief culprit

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

Owies wouldn’t be a bad option.He is a natural forward and goal kicker.
Surely an upgrade on VDM and McNeil ?

Why bother with that when you could have the Package instead?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Cal Twomey said this on SEN Breakfast today

Caleb Daniel & Jack Macrae (Western Bulldogs)

On Daniel’s future and Macrae’s potential St Kilda move:

“He is unlike Jack Macrae in that he hasn’t requested a trade and certainly hasn’t nominated any preferred home.

“I still think there’s potential for something later in the trade period but not a pressing one at the moment.

“We know Macrae said last week he’s requesting a trade and this week nominated St Kilda officially as his new home.

“I’m fascinated to see how that one plays out given he’s got three years to run on his contract at the Dogs. They’re not pushing him out, but also the Saints won’t want to give up any strong draft capital because they’re keen to lock in some young talent.”


Riley Garcia (Western Bulldogs)

On interest from multiple clubs:

“He’s got some interest out there. He’s got a two-year offer from the Bulldogs.

“Port Adelaide, West Coast, North Melbourne (and St Kilda) have all had a look at him at different points, so he’s got a decision to make.”

They’re some rubbish club options for Sonny. Suggests he’s not overly sort after when 2/3 of the teams keen to bring him on board are complete basket cases.

Hopefully he doesn’t take the easy option like Young and Lipinski did and earns his spot at the Dogs. Doesn’t seem the type to puss out, so tipping he stays.

 

[yebach]

That's a few players, sadly. Marra a chief culprit

True.
I think our biggest priority this offseason should be getting our goal kicking sorted.
Marra was much more accurate when he was kicking it like Fevola had taught him. For some reason he's decided to abandon what was working.
Bont as well. He was actually a better kick for goal when he was 18. Seems like he's getting worse every year. Whatever we've been doing regarding our goal kicking doesn't seem to be working.

 

[SPower]

Brizzy when they decided to lift their game kicked 11 . 3 . Vital stuff to win the game!!

 

[adogsfan5]

We’ve got to be in “war chest” territory don’t we? With Macrae and smith gone.