List Mgmt. Trade & Draft UltraThread- Warning, May Contain Speculation #combinethethreads

[Feeling Groovy]

Dropped + not making the cut .

Not finding ball let alone winning contested . Not hitting scoreboard

Invisible in GF , 4 touches nh memory no tackles


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And numerous other young players have been dropped for consistency and/or production issues early in their careers. Sheppard, Duggan, Sheed etc. You may end up being right but being dropped is hardly proof of failure. Some players take longer. Shit, Tim Kelly couldn't even get drafted for years due to his performances earlier in his career.

 

[avishka5]

And numerous other young players have been dropped for consistency and/or production issues early in their careers. Sheppard, Duggan, Sheed etc. You may end up being right but being dropped is hardly proof of failure. Some players take longer. Shit, Tim Kelly couldn't even get drafted for years due to his performances earlier in his career.

Shep is a fine example. Shep was in and out(due to injuries as well as form) till his 6th season. In 2015 he found his position and since become one of our best players.

HFF is a very hard role to master and it's even harder for a player thats not a natural accumulator. Thats why i don't mind seeing him develop in the 2's playing predominantly on ball.

 

[porttoport]

Do Eagles determine reserves playing positions , roles , time on ground ? You'd think so now being a true reserve team Will they play in Eagles structure ? All this makes call up and effectiveness of players better . I'm aware even with aligned East Perth they had a big say which was often to the detriment of East Perth


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[Yippy Yi Yeo]

TT can't agree more . Eagles very rarely get it wrong at draft but this time .

He's in yr 3 now and failing to cut it in a great team with elite players around him .

Given his injury problems pre and post draft he was recruited more on reputation / hope than evidenced performance .


And I'd suggest people don't get too carried away with value in a trade . Eagles very good at pushing tight buttons getting high end performance but not working with DV .


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Not sure why people are making such rash judgements on Venables already. He is a bottom ager, missed most of his draft year and half of his first year with us through injury and didn't debut until last year where he again missed half a year with injury. He was a teenager not even 6 months ago, and is being played in a difficult position on the ground. You act like he's done something wrong, when in reality he almost always uses the ball well and can do creative things, contributes pressure acts and tackles. His stats so far are an improvement on last year, maybe wait til they give him a bit more midfield time and he gets a good run at it before you go writing him off.

 

[kane249]

Fwiw Kerr spoke very highly on the podcast about Venables, said he reminded him a lot of a young Chris Judd with the way he played.

 

[Candiru]

Fwiw Kerr spoke very highly on the podcast about Venables, said he reminded him a lot of a young Chris Judd with the way he played.

Aside from his ability to actually get the ball.

 

[WCErevival]

They need to leave him in the WAFL for half a season playing midfield. His tank looks like its not there yet. He always looks gassed. He did miss a lot of the preseason.

 

[bUCKET__]

Haha we are a fickle bunch as supporters.

I was almost ready to write Sheed off as a drafting failure when he was dropped back to WAFL second time last year. Lots here were in that camp. Man, was that completely wrong or what?

Even then, Sheed wasn't getting the sort of praise from inside the club that Venables often gets. A lot of people thought Duggan was a bust in his third year. And it's funny what 6 months of development and improvement can get when people are that young.

Truth is that we've always taken a little longer to get very young draftees ready for AFL, in contrast to other clubs. And I really like that about our drafting - we don't often go for the 'ready-made' youngsters, we draft on specific attributes with scope for development elsewhere, etc. It's probably one of the reasons we have so good at drafting quality talls, for a long period of time. The question mark has been: can we do the same with our midfield? Our flankers?

For years as a board we've talked down our own midfield, looking for that big trade-in, and instead the club has just quietly focused on development. And now it's pretty safe to say that yes, we can develop players in the middle. Yeo. Sheed. Hutchings and Redden continually improving.

Not even the slightest bit worried about Venables' long term development in our team right now. Our coaches have so many runs on the board right now that it's a little crazy to doubt them when it comes to getting the best out of Venables.

 

[Chris_6678]

A lot to seem to write off our players unless they are like gaff and darling who dominated their spot from day dot.

Venables is 20 and if it takes him till 22-23 to become a mid then so be it but for me has shown he has the nous to play as a mid which is the hard part. All he needs to do is get a clean run at it and spend quality minutes in the midfield where he will learn to up his production and in turn will build up his tank.

 

[mattyc75]

Not sure why people are making such rash judgements on Venables already. He is a bottom ager, missed most of his draft year and half of his first year with us through injury and didn't debut until last year where he again missed half a year with injury. He was a teenager not even 6 months ago, and is being played in a difficult position on the ground. You act like he's done something wrong, when in reality he almost always uses the ball well and can do creative things, contributes pressure acts and tackles. His stats so far are an improvement on last year, maybe wait til they give him a bit more midfield time and he gets a good run at it before you go writing him off.

Im open minded on venables but i would include him in a trade for either kelly or cogs.i dont think anyone is saying he's done anything wrong,its more that hes done the same as he's always done.low possession count,low impact
At the moment he plays a position we have some depth in with rioli coming back in when fit,waterman and eventually cameron pushing for selection.
Unless he shows he can be a permanent mid hes going to have to show a lot more up forward
If he helps us get cogs,kelly or some other highly rated mid then go for it

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[porttoport]

Not sure why people are making such rash judgements on Venables already. He is a bottom ager, missed most of his draft year and half of his first year with us through injury and didn't debut until last year where he again missed half a year with injury. He was a teenager not even 6 months ago, and is being played in a difficult position on the ground. You act like he's done something wrong, when in reality he almost always uses the ball well and can do creative things, contributes pressure acts and tackles. His stats so far are an improvement on last year, maybe wait til they give him a bit more midfield time and he gets a good run at it before you go writing him off.

Uses ball well ? Rarely gets it, averages 10 disposals a game across career to date .Tackles ? Averages 2.5 per game in his career . Champ data ( I don't have access to ) will record pressure acts but low tackle stats suggest they wouldn't read too well . If someone has this data be nice to get real story .

Highly touted early draft picks always under scrutiny and performance will be somewhat measured against this . Expectations will always be greater .

Stats 2018 vs 2019 can't be compared as sample size 2019 is 2 matches . Allow him 7 or 8 matches and then this stats comparison much more valuable .

Hopefully the ordinary form for reserves vs Perth in WAFL was a one off and he will demand a recall thru compelling WAFL form soon







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[eagles rule]

Keep playing DV in WAFL midfield and he will start being more proactive and engaged in the role by getting to more contests ..

Even if it takes all years then we will know for sure if this little country boy can play Go Danny Go Danny go go go .. Danny be good ..


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[FKASC]

Uses ball well ? Rarely gets it, averages 10 disposals a game across career to date .Tackles ? Averages 2.5 per game in his career . Champ data ( I don't have access to ) will record pressure acts but low tackle stats suggest they wouldn't read too well . If someone has this data be nice to get real story .

Highly touted early draft picks always under scrutiny and performance will be somewhat measured against this . Expectations will always be greater .

Stats 2018 vs 2019 can't be compared as sample size 2019 is 2 matches . Allow him 7 or 8 matches and then this stats comparison much more valuable .

Hopefully the ordinary form for reserves vs Perth in WAFL was a one off and he will demand a recall thru compelling WAFL form soon







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We get it. You want us to say how much better SPP is.

 

[TY24]

Aside from his ability to actually get the ball.

Much harder to get lots of the footy playing the graveyard position Venners plays in the league side than it is playing through the middle. Let's see how he goes through the middle with the 2's.

 

[Wild Kelly]

Aside from his ability to actually get the ball.

Judd also benefitted from demanding the ball from other players and them giving it to him knowing, from experience, that he would use it well. He also had players like Rowan, Stenglein and Chick clearing a path and blocking and protecting him.
Also, I would think that not many half forward flankers average more than 10 possessions a game. He's still a kid with very limited pre-seasons and games. He will continue to improve.

 

[Candiru]

Judd also benefitted from demanding the ball from other players and them giving it to him knowing, from experience, that he would use it well. He also had players like Rowan, Stenglein and Chick clearing a path and blocking and protecting him.
Also, I would think that not many half forward flankers average more than 10 possessions a game. He's still a kid with very limited pre-seasons and games. He will continue to improve.

Some people might say Judd benefited from being a genuine midfielder capable of winning his own footy. It's not clear Venables ticks that box.

 

[Wild Kelly]

Some people might say Judd benefited from being a genuine midfielder capable of winning his own footy. It's not clear Venables ticks that box.

Yes.....

not yet. But comparisons to Judd are ridiculous. If you want compare him with someone compare him to Sheed, who most on here gave a hard time, and cut him the same slack.

 

[Candiru]

A lot to seem to write off our players unless they are like gaff and darling who dominated their spot from day dot.

Venables is 20 and if it takes him till 22-23 to become a mid then so be it but for me has shown he has the nous to play as a mid which is the hard part. All he needs to do is get a clean run at it and spend quality minutes in the midfield where he will learn to up his production and in turn will build up his tank.

It's not a case of writing him off. It's a case of looking at performance to date.

I'm not sure he has shown the nous to play as a midfielder.

 

[Candiru]

But comparisons to Judd are ridiculous. If you want compare him with someone compare him to Sheed, who most on here gave a hard time, and cut him the same slack.

Tell that to the people comparing him to Judd.

Also, if you look at Sheed's second season (2015), he averaged 19 touches that year. So that comparison isn't great for Venables either.

 

[hungrytiger]

Supporters are a fickle bunch...They write off young guns but continue to back in the worst footballer in the league known as Masten. Hes had more chances than anyone. Hes been gone so many times. If people think Venables can play half back then he can play this Masten role right now as Masten is getting back to help out and squibbing it up. He only getting it 11 times.. I reckon Venables would get it 20 times without a shadow of a doubt if he was playing that role and helping out in defence. Hes tough as nails, tackles hard and breaks tackles all of which Masten can not.

We know Rioli will be the attacking HF/Mid. Well we need to find DVs spot in this team. Its going to be difficult adding Rioli then adding in a mid like TK or Cogs next season. Masten may go but it still makes it hard adding in another mid.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

I guess all roads lead to Masten...

 

[Candiru]

We know Rioli will be the attacking HF/Mid. Well we need to find DVs spot in this team. Its going to be difficult adding Rioli then adding in a mid like TK or Cogs next season. Masten may go but it still makes it hard adding in another mid.

It will be hard picking our best side? I don't think so.

 

[Chris_6678]

I cant see Rioli ever becoming a full time mid.

I like him forward for his creativity which works well with our talls. But he is a great pinch hitter in the midfield.

 

[MrWoollie]

Truth is that we've always taken a little longer to get very young draftees ready for AFL, in contrast to other clubs.

This is very true. We really seem to give it longer, or more development. Sometimes we just seem slow to play kids, but overall we seem to do ok.

Which raises the question. Excluding mature and other club draftees/recruits, who was our last 18 year old 'walk into the side' draftee?

Chris Masten (2007) debuted in rd2 2008 but was in and out of the side, playing 9 games that year. Not him.
Shuey (2008) debuted rd1 2010 and only played 6 games in that, his second, year. Not him either.
Gaff (2010) debuted rd1 2011 and played 17 games, missing rounds 9-16 (inj?). So there's one.
Darling (2010) debuted rd1 2011 and played 23 games that year. So that's two.
Sheppard (2009) debuted rd7 2010. You can make a case but did spend most of 2011 developing in the WAFL.

So other than Gaff and Darling, you have to go back to Judd to get a straight in (and yes, I know he played 1 WAFL game) and stay in player.
Compared to other clubs that is a really small selection.

 

[tigger_ferret]

Fwiw Kerr spoke very highly on the podcast about Venables, said he reminded him a lot of a young Chris Judd with the way he played.

But does he have a basketball background??