List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

[_RT_]

 

[voorhees]

Dunno why you are assuming north with improve next year
They have been completely shithouse for the best part of 10 years all the while investing and doubling down in the fabled draft yet they have absolutely nothing to show for it

nothing to show for it?
there youth will run rings around the lot we currently have.
they got rising stars - we got ?? who Dow
Roo's have got holes in there list, but they have got quality youth who are growing each and every round.

 

[beema limapep]

Bolton is at the start of his prime and is arguably the best small forward/mid in the competition. At this stage he might be undervalued at trade because we are struggling. In a competitive team he is a 2 goal/20 disposal player. There’s about 2-4 other players in the AFL that are around this level. If he wants to go it better be for some serious trade currency - even the 3 Freo picks in the teens is not enough IMO.

He ain't arguably the best small forward/mid in the comp.

He is =40th in goal kicking and 154th for disposals.

He's averaging 1.4 goals an 17 disposals a game.

Is he at the start of his prime? Nobody knows. 50/50 at best.

He's the perfect trade option.

 

[Tortured Tiger]

Cadman is a great idea. Just been dropped from their 3KPF forward line.

We have a huge need for a KPF now. RFC is a big club, huge supporter base & we will never be North.

Cadman has been disappointing so far, if we had drafted him people in here would be going nuts. Definitely has talent but needs to show more I would of thought

 

[Coach_Required]

Cadman has been disappointing so far, if we had drafted him people in here would be going nuts. Definitely has talent but needs to show more I would of thought

In fairness to Cadman, people in here go nuts anyway at players with only half a dozen games of experience. LOL

 

[docko911]

He ain't arguably the best small forward/mid in the comp.

He is =40th in goal kicking and 154th for disposals.

He's averaging 1.4 goals an 17 disposals a game.

Is he at the start of his prime? Nobody knows. 50/50 at best.

He's the perfect trade option.

Disagree, early season he was averaging close to 20/2. He’s dropped off a bit but so has most of the team. We also haven’t had a consistent forward line all year.

Sure he makes stupid mistakes but he also creates opportunities like few others.

 

[fargothegreat]

Most people don't realise how long it takes to build a premiership team. The core midfield group in most premiership teams are all into their 5th year and beyond.

The reality is that anyone 27+ currently on the list is highly unlikely to be part of our next premiership team and anyone 25+ will be on the wrong side of 30. And this is best case scenario.

A 33 year old Dan Rioli, 32 year old Baker and 31 year old Bolton are expendable to a rebuilding team provided the price is right.

Both of the last two dynasties (ours and Hawks) were built off the back of early draft picks converted into star players with strong role players around them. If we can hit the draft hard over the next three years we'll put ourselves in a really strong position.

People talk about how much of a rabble North are, but if you look at the talent on their list now with LDU, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Larkey, McKercher, etc. they're actually in a really strong spot going forward. Compare them to the Saints who lost patience and took shortcuts trading away a lot of top picks for experienced players and it's obvious who is in a better position.

 

[Morro]

Most people don't realise how long it takes to build a premiership team. The core midfield group in most premiership teams are all into their 5th year and beyond.

The reality is that anyone 27+ currently on the list is highly unlikely to be part of our next premiership team and anyone 25+ will be on the wrong side of 30. And this is best case scenario.

A 33 year old Dan Rioli, 32 year old Baker and 31 year old Bolton are expendable to a rebuilding team provided the price is right.

Both of the last two dynasties (ours and Hawks) were built off the back of early draft picks converted into star players with strong role players around them. If we can hit the draft hard over the next three years we'll put ourselves in a really strong position.

People talk about how much of a rabble North are, but if you look at the talent on their list now with LDU, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Larkey, McKercher, etc. they're actually in a really strong spot going forward. Compare them to the Saints who lost patience and took shortcuts trading away a lot of top picks for experienced players and it's obvious who is in a better position.

Great post mate, I guess though its a fine line as the kids still need leaders.

 

[Coach_Required]

Most people don't realise how long it takes to build a premiership team. The core midfield group in most premiership teams are all into their 5th year and beyond.

The reality is that anyone 27+ currently on the list is highly unlikely to be part of our next premiership team and anyone 25+ will be on the wrong side of 30. And this is best case scenario.

A 33 year old Dan Rioli, 32 year old Baker and 31 year old Bolton are expendable to a rebuilding team provided the price is right.

Both of the last two dynasties (ours and Hawks) were built off the back of early draft picks converted into star players with strong role players around them. If we can hit the draft hard over the next three years we'll put ourselves in a really strong position.

People talk about how much of a rabble North are, but if you look at the talent on their list now with LDU, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Larkey, McKercher, etc. they're actually in a really strong spot going forward. Compare them to the Saints who lost patience and took shortcuts trading away a lot of top picks for experienced players and it's obvious who is in a better position.

I get what you mean, I somewhat agree considering the age profile of our current list, going into the 2017 season our list of older players was:

Shaun Grigg 29
Bachar Houli 28
Shane Edwards 28
Jack Riewoldt 28
Alex Rance 27
Trent Cotchin 27
David Astbury 26

Our club in 2017 had only 1 player over 30 (Ivan Maric) this current list of ours has way too many:

Dylan Grimes
Dion Prestia
Dustn Martin
Marlion Pickett
Tom Lynch
Nathan Broad
Kamdyn McIntosh
Nick Vlastuin

These guys are premiership heroes, but our list is unevenly weighted for age, we need to invest in youth and then that will take us another 6 years to get those picked now to the right age.

Our list is terrible right now, there is no quick fix.

 

[SplintWhisky]

Disagree with that. Shai might not be a leader, but much like Dusty - he is a match winner.

Question the leadership of both Baker & Rioli if they are entertaining other offers while we are trying to develop a young core. Terrible example to the kids IMO, & likely doing nothing for their confidence. The longer those 2 allow the the courting to go on, the less i care if they stay, especially with other pieces starting to appear available elsewhere.

The lack of leadership at the club is a huge issue. But we also need to make sure that our own lack of leadership doesn't start making us overrate those qualities in guys who really are not what we need. I thought Baker was a genuine chance to be Captain, but the situation with him heading back to Perth has gotten pretty out of hand really. He has purchased a property and talking to the WA clubs in the Bye round - thats pretty shit really.

First point about Shai being a match winner.

Yes that is very true, he is a match winner. But unlike Dusty he is not a match winner for a struggling side. You take Dusty, Cotchin, Riewoldt or even Lids and you could say they are all match winners in a struggling side. Shai doesn't appear to have the ability to put the side on his shoulders and drive through a result like the others mentioned.

Leadership of Baker and Rioli
Do you doubt the leadership of Jack and Cotchin? Jack and Eddie have said there were talks and plans to get him to Collingwood multiple times. Jack even said he was considering offers at the end of 2016. Cotchin was also thinking about and considering offers as well at that time.

Leaders having moments of self doubt and reflection is a good thing. It means that if they both stay, you know that they have committed to this decision. It hasn't been an automatic blind decision.

Now I will hedge slightly and say that you will be proven correct is say Baker and Rioli have the attitude of "Trade me, I'm done and I don't care if the swap is fair" but it doesn't seem to be the case yet but it could happen closer to trade deadline.

 

[SplintWhisky]

Most people don't realise how long it takes to build a premiership team. The core midfield group in most premiership teams are all into their 5th year and beyond.

The reality is that anyone 27+ currently on the list is highly unlikely to be part of our next premiership team and anyone 25+ will be on the wrong side of 30. And this is best case scenario.

A 33 year old Dan Rioli, 32 year old Baker and 31 year old Bolton are expendable to a rebuilding team provided the price is right.

Both of the last two dynasties (ours and Hawks) were built off the back of early draft picks converted into star players with strong role players around them. If we can hit the draft hard over the next three years we'll put ourselves in a really strong position.

People talk about how much of a rabble North are, but if you look at the talent on their list now with LDU, Sheezel, Wardlaw, Larkey, McKercher, etc. they're actually in a really strong spot going forward. Compare them to the Saints who lost patience and took shortcuts trading away a lot of top picks for experienced players and it's obvious who is in a better position.

The thing you are missing though is that Hawthorn and Richmond both had strong cores of older leaders and young leaders.

GWS vs Gold Coast is an absolute perfect example of what I mean. Despite the difference in the training facilities and all that GWS made finals (and a grand final if the AFL didn't match fix) in their 5th year of operation. A large part of that is the huge number of core young players but they all came up with absolute Chad leaders. From memory of the already established players GC took only Ablet would be a captain and I am pretty sure non of the others were captain or even became coaches (I have a feeling Risctetlli may of and the Collingwood rucknmen is a coach, josh something). GWS had established Captains coming out of their arse when they first played and then they all went on to coach.

We need to have to leaders of today shepherd in the leaders of tomorrow. We get rid of Baker and Rioli then we will need to find some more leadership for the younger players to look up to somewhere. Hell, Graham looks to be gone at year end and Vlas isn't getting younger.

 

[fargothegreat]

Great post mate, I guess though its a fine line as the kids still need leaders.

The thing you are missing though is that Hawthorn and Richmond both had strong cores of older leaders and young leaders.

We need to have to leaders of today shepherd in the leaders of tomorrow. We get rid of Baker and Rioli then we will need to find some more leadership for the younger players to look up to somewhere. Hell, Graham looks to be gone at year end and Vlas isn't getting younger.

Is Nank, Short, Taranto, Hopper, Broad, Vlastuin a strong enough group of leaders? It's a stronger group than we had when Dimma began in 2010.

Will blokes like Balta, Miller, Ross, Mansell emerge as leaders as they reach their peak? Or perhaps we can bring in blokes like Maric and Chaplin as FAs to help guide us through?

Letting all of Rioli, Baker and Bolton go may be too much. But holding onto all of them may be a missed opportunity.

 

[tora tora tora]

I get what you mean, I somewhat agree considering the age profile of our current list, going into the 2017 season our list of older players was:

Shaun Grigg 29
Bachar Houli 28
Shane Edwards 28
Jack Riewoldt 28
Alex Rance 27
Trent Cotchin 27
David Astbury 26

Our club in 2017 had only 1 player over 30 (Ivan Maric) this current list of ours has way too many:

Dylan Grimes
Dion Prestia
Dustn Martin
Marlion Pickett
Tom Lynch
Nathan Broad
Kamdyn McIntosh
Nick Vlastuin

These guys are premiership heroes, but our list is unevenly weighted for age, we need to invest in youth and then that will take us another 6 years to get those picked now to the right age.

Our list is terrible right now, there is no quick fix.

In 2 years

the age profile lowers with Grimes, Prestia, Naismith off the list this year.

Next year: Dustn Martin Marlion Pickett Tom Lynch, Nathan Broad, Kamdyn McIntosh

 

[Morro]

Is Nank, Short, Taranto, Hopper, Broad, Vlastuin a strong enough group of leaders? It's a stronger group than we had when Dimma began in 2010.

Will blokes like Balta, Miller, Ross, Mansell emerge as leaders as they reach their peak? Or perhaps we can bring in blokes like Maric and Chaplin as FAs to help guide us through?

Letting all of Rioli, Baker and Bolton go may be too much. But holding onto all of them may be a missed opportunity.

These are the questions only insiders can answer and even then, its not guaranteed. In essence I completely agree with you.

 

[DickieKnee]

Well they are 4 players on our list sitting at 17th heading to 18th.

2 of them are vice captains. 2 from WA, 1 out of contract. 2 of them in form 2 not. We potentially lose Baker anyhow. We wont match offers. If the club feel this draft is worth it, then facilitate the Bolton trade.

What club is Short going to?

Dusty is rooted, Graham & Kmac keep getting selected.

Gunna be massive retirements over the next 2 years anyhow but we still have

Nank
Broad
Balta
Hopper
Taranto

Pickett,
Kmac

Cupboards looking bare wowee. I think we are going to be down the bottom for a few years.

 

[Bird Man]

I say blow it up and get max value for the players we have that won't be in the next window.

I would rather be a trash bottom 4 team for the next 2-3 three years than a mid table team like freo and the saints for 10

 

[Coach_Required]

Cupboards looking bare wowee. I think we are going to be down the bottom for a few years.

Agree, problem is weve all finally tasted success so most fans will be super impatient.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Shai is contracted so he won’t be going anywhere unless both parties want it to happen. Like most supporters I love watching him play and he gets people through the gates for sure. But if he really wants to go and isn’t invested in the future and the hard yards to come, we have to get the best deal we can.

Exactly.
It's all in Shai's court.

 

[Coach_Required]

I say blow it up and get max value for the players we have that won't be in the next window.

I would rather be a trash bottom 4 team for the next 2-3 three years than a mid table team like freo and the saints for 10

Need to make it happen now before Tassie come in.

 

[DickieKnee]

I actually just read the article and it's even dumber. A team aspiring to play finals is going to bring in Dusty as a part time player playing home games only

But they don't seem to have much trouble winning games at home? It's playing away they struggle.

 

[fargothegreat]

These are the questions only insider can answer and even then, its guaranteed. In essence I completely agree with you.

My worry is that I don't think Yze got th job selling the vision of a rebuild. He still thought we could contend.

I hope him and Blair aren't stubborn and understand that that's probably what is required.

 

[Morro]

My worry is that I don't think Yze got th job selling the vision of a rebuild. He still thought we could contend.

I hope him and Blair aren't stubborn and understand that that's probably what is required.

yeah true, I think they injuries may have masked that idea.

 

[SplintWhisky]

Is Nank, Short, Taranto, Hopper, Broad, Vlastuin a strong enough group of leaders? It's a stronger group than we had when Dimma began in 2010.

Will blokes like Balta, Miller, Ross, Mansell emerge as leaders as they reach their peak? Or perhaps we can bring in blokes like Maric and Chaplin as FAs to help guide us through?

Letting all of Rioli, Baker and Bolton go may be too much. But holding onto all of them may be a missed opportunity.

Short and Broad won't last more than 1 or 2 more season due to form and age respectfully. Nank is also starting to tire and will have to be used less and less.

Rioli and Baker both offer major leadership values that are hard to come by. Rioli took it upon himself to set up that competition at training with Shai in 2022 and look what it did? Bolton got a jacket. Baker is a great example of the "look at my actions" leader. He is being misused at the moment (still think he is best in the backline) but he also has the experience of having to work and struggle to make the AFL grade. The other thing they both have is multiple medals. That is as important as anything because they know what is required to get to the promised land multiple times.

From what I have seen of Ross, he speaks well enough to show that he is not a moron but there have yet to be stories of his leadership yet. Balta in the panel shows I have seen has given me a feeling that he is not a leader.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I was going to say the same but then end of season when I'm demanding pick 2 compo I'll look like even more of a dumb campaigner

Yze should give him 5 coaches votes each week.

 

[fargothegreat]

I actually just read the article and it's even dumber. A team aspiring to play finals is going to bring in Dusty as a part time player playing home games only

There is merit in nursing Dusty through a couple of years for them though. Dusty puts bums on seats, which they need desperately.

I'd be going to them and saying, you give Dusty enough coin to convince him to play on and we'll help you fit it in your cap by wearing some of Rioli's wage in exchange for taking those two top picks off your hands.

 

[Bird Man]

My worry is that I don't think Yze got th job selling the vision of a rebuild. He still thought we could contend.

I hope him and Blair aren't stubborn and understand that that's probably what is required.

They also need to sell memberships and get people through the door at games. If that drops then so do the sponsor $$$

yeah true, I think they injuries may have masked that idea.

The injuries are not that bad atm... and we still get hammered.