Trade Talk 2013 - Yeo, Doc, Polec, Karnezis, Longer gone - Welcome Paine, West, Magwon!

[Hollow Knight]

In the meanwhile, pick 5 would net us a VERY nice midfielder...and we wouldn't have to gut the team to do that. Something we all admit we need!

Good post. That's the thing that some people spouting these pick upgrade scenarios don't seem to get.

They seem to discount the existing draft pick and pretend that we are just trading Longer for Boyd.

In actuality it is Longer and a potential star midfielder for Boyd. That is a lot to give up.

 

[Panthera]

Good post. That's the thing that some people spouting these pick upgrade scenarios don't seem to get.

They seem to discount the existing draft pick and pretend that we are just trading Longer for Boyd.

In actuality it is Longer and a potential star midfielder for Boyd. That is a lot to give up.

We need a CHF to replace Brown a heap more than we need 1 x back up ruckman + and 1 x midfielder

 

[cotter101]

We need a CHF to replace Brown a heap more than we need 1 x back up ruckman + and 1 x midfielder

Both would be potential a graders. Same goes with Boyd. So two potential a graders for one potential a grader?

My above comment was a bit 'tongue in the cheek so to speak'.

I'd love to get Boyd but the reality is we would have to offer players up for trade and they could very well decline and then leave to a club of their choice when they are out of contract next. I'm not saying we shouldn't go for him. What I'm saying is we just need to be very careful.

I'm confident the club will make the right decision.

 

[POBT]

We need a CHF to replace Brown a heap more than we need 1 x back up ruckman + and 1 x midfielder

I don't agree with that. Our midfield is pretty ordinary and is overly reliant on Moloney and Black who aren't going to be around forever. I think our midfield is a bit overrated, to be honest and needs a class injection.

However, I would argue that it is harder to develop an elite key forward and that you generally need to use a high draft pick for them. That's what makes it more of a priority, not that key forward is somehow the weakest spot on the list that we can afford to discard potentially good options elsewhere on the field.

FWIW, if Merrett and Patfull don't play much beyond their 30th birthday, we may well be up in arms about our failure to draft a decent key defender. List management is more than looking at the gaping hole in your current match day 22. We've got 3 out of our 4 key defenders who are of a similar age - an age when guys like Leppa started to really slow down. We're just as exposed down back as we are up forward - at least in the forward line, we've got options. Clarke aside, we've got no-one to play a key defensive role.

I also think that it is more than possible to win a flag without a dominant key forward. We might be used to having a superstar CHF but it isn't the only model.

 

[Dylan12]

I don't agree with that. Our midfield is pretty ordinary and is overly reliant on Moloney and Black who aren't going to be around forever. I think our midfield is a bit overrated, to be honest and needs a class injection.

Yep, that is my thinking too.

While I agree that in order to get quality, you have to give up quality, but I don't think we should be selling the farm in order to get pick 1 and most probably Boyd.

As POBT said, our midfield needs an injection of class and there should be one or two highly rated mids around our pick that fit that bill, such as a Don Sheed, Josh Kelly or James Aish.

 

[Panthera]

I don't agree with that. Our midfield is pretty ordinary and is overly reliant on Moloney and Black who aren't going to be around forever. I think our midfield is a bit overrated, to be honest and needs a class injection.

However, I would argue that it is harder to develop an elite key forward and that you generally need to use a high draft pick for them. That's what makes it more of a priority, not that key forward is somehow the weakest spot on the list that we can afford to discard potentially good options elsewhere on the field.

FWIW, if Merrett and Patfull don't play much beyond their 30th birthday, we may well be up in arms about our failure to draft a decent key defender. List management is more than looking at the gaping hole in your current match day 22. We've got 3 out of our 4 key defenders who are of a similar age - an age when guys like Leppa started to really slow down. We're just as exposed down back as we are up forward - at least in the forward line, we've got options. Clarke aside, we've got no-one to play a key defensive role.

I also think that it is more than possible to win a flag without a dominant key forward. We might be used to having a superstar CHF but it isn't the only model.

Our midfield isn't rated in my opinion, let alone overrated. It's average at best.

We don't need a gun CHF to win, but it certainly will help moving forward (pardon the pun). In any case, we have no guns in the forward line period - so we need basically one of every position in the F50. We haven't had a solid goal kicking crumber since Craig McRae

 

[Panthera]

Yep, that is my thinking too.

While I agree that in order to get quality, you have to give up quality, but I don't think we should be selling the farm in order to get pick 1 and most probably Boyd.

As POBT said, our midfield needs an injection of class and there should be one or two highly rated mids around our pick that fit that bill, such as a Don Sheed, Josh Kelly or James Aish.

And who will these gun mids be kicking to exactly?

If Carlton can't crack the Top 4 with Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson etc. kicking to Waite and his merry fleet of smalls - we're no hope once Brown hangs up the size 14's

It's the last chance saloon for Brisbane this off season to nab a quality KPF before Brown retires - it'd be awesome and potentially career extending for Brown if we get Boyd. He could teach him the ins and outs next year and then partially move to the goal square in 2015

 

[notting18]

And who will these gun mids be kicking to exactly?

If Carlton can't crack the Top 4 with Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson etc. kicking to Waite and his merry fleet of smalls - we're no hope once Brown hangs up the size 14's

It's the last chance saloon for Brisbane this off season to nab a quality KPF before Brown retires - it'd be awesome and potentially career extending for Brown if we get Boyd. He could teach him the ins and outs next year and then partially move to the goal square in 2015

Sydney, West Coast, Geelong, etc have all won flags post our threepeat without a true quality KPF. Mooney, Lynch, Reid, etc were solid performers but all very much assisted by great midfields/team structures.

I would almost go as far as saying that the top 10 KPFs in the game over the past 8 years have not won a flag in that time bar Franklin- Riewoldt x2, Brown, Pavlich, Fevola, etc. While when you look at that same period, most, if not all the top 10 midfielders have - Ablett, Judd, Swan, Bartel, Mitchell, Selwood, Hodge, etc

 

[13Beast]

And who will these gun mids be kicking to exactly?

With any luck, those gun mids will be kicking a fair chunk of our goals!

 

[theteamtobeat]

Sydney, West Coast, Geelong, etc have all won flags post our threepeat without a true quality KPF. Mooney, Lynch, Reid, etc were solid performers but all very much assisted by great midfields/team structures.

I would almost go as far as saying that the top 10 KPFs in the game over the past 8 years have not won a flag in that time bar Franklin- Riewoldt x2, Brown, Pavlich, Fevola, etc. While when you look at that same period, most, if not all the top 10 midfielders have - Ablett, Judd, Swan, Bartel, Mitchell, Selwood, Hodge, etc

Gun forwards are rare to find in this game, compared to a midfielder. A good midfielder you can draft from any position in the draft (e.g Rockliff, Redden, Black). To draft a quality forward, you need to give up a top 10 draft pick.

 

[Panthera]

Sydney, West Coast, Geelong, etc have all won flags post our threepeat without a true quality KPF. Mooney, Lynch, Reid, etc were solid performers but all very much assisted by great midfields/team structures.

I would almost go as far as saying that the top 10 KPFs in the game over the past 8 years have not won a flag in that time bar Franklin- Riewoldt x2, Brown, Pavlich, Fevola, etc. While when you look at that same period, most, if not all the top 10 midfielders have - Ablett, Judd, Swan, Bartel, Mitchell, Selwood, Hodge, etc

Whaaaaaa?

Ablett, Bartel & Selwood were kicking to Mooney, Hawkins and Pods
Swan was kicking to Cloke
Hodge & Mitchell had the twin towers in Franklin and Roughy

 

[lions27]

Trading away Longer, who we spent our top draft pick on two years ago and have all been absolutely rapt with his development, and when we have an injury-prone 1st ruckman in Luey, would be lunacy.

Best trade bait of any currency would be Karnezis and Polec. Doubt Cornelius would spruik any interest, nor would Banfield (whom I think is worthy of one more shot).

In the meanwhile, pick 5 would net us a VERY nice midfielder...and we wouldn't have to gut the team to do that. Something we all admit we need!

I wonder if Karnezis or Polec could be traded for later first round picks and/or existing players. Shane Savage for example, or a even a skilled defender...as we all know our defence has been up and down this season due injuries, reports and inconsistent performances.

What about bernie vince?

 

[Dylan12]

And who will these gun mids be kicking to exactly?

Who needs forwards when our mids can just kick long goals from outside 50 as we did in the last quarter against the Cats.

In all seriousness, the only reason I am not contemplating us acquiring pick 1 from GWS is because other clubs have so much more to offer GWS based on their needs than what we can offer without ripping the guts out of our club. Of the remaining players on our list that are yet to re-sign beyond this season, Hanley is the only one that would likely interest them and even then, I'm not sure he is exactly what they need anyway. Guys like Polec, Karnezis, Longer, Golby and Harwood are hardly players GWS would be banging down the for, so I'm not sure how we could possibly satisfy such a trade rationally.

We all appreciate the need for a key forward to replace Brown, but realistically, we aren't in the position to make such a trade happen and to be honest, I haven't seen one suggestion that could trump a deal that another club couldn't offer GWS.

I'll be more than satisfied to land an elite mid this draft and keep building our developing list, with or without Boyd. It is not as if there aren't other options out there in acquiring a gun forward from another club, such as a Dixon or Kersten and IMO that will be the challenge for Kerr et al over the next 18 months or so.

 

[lions27]

You definitely need good forwards, but an elite midfield makes average Fwds look great!

 

[lions27]

In our case we need 1 or 2 elite Mids, the best fwd in comp won't win you games if the balls not going in the fwd50 enough times or getting bombed into 3 vs 1. Or just crap entries. I've got no doubt that cornelius and brown could have got a lot more goals in our first 2 months if our entries had of been half way decent

 

[notting18]

Whaaaaaa?

Ablett, Bartel & Selwood were kicking to Mooney, Hawkins and Pods
Swan was kicking to Cloke
Hodge & Mitchell had the twin towers in Franklin and Roughy

Mooney, Hawkins and Podsiadly were definitely not elite players when they won their flags, and a dominant/elite rest of the team certainly helped them be as good as they were.

However, the main point stands. Teams have won flags without elite forwards. No team has won a flag without elite midfielders.

 

[theteamtobeat]

I hope everyone knows that there is still games to be played and there is a chance that GWS won't end up with the number 1 draft pick.

 

[lions27]

I hope everyone knows that there is still games to be played and there is a chance that GWS won't end up with the number 1 draft pick.

Yeah but they are unlikely to win 3 more games

 

[theteamtobeat]

Yeah but they are unlikely to win 3 more games

Stranger things have happened in football. Who would of thought the Bulldogs would smash us by 60 odd point at the start of the season and them losing to Melbourne on the weekend.

 

[chopperduck]

If we can't get pick 1 to get Boyd, we should go best mid at our first pick. I think we will go hard at Buddy and at Boyd and hope to get one of them.

 

[theteamtobeat]

If we can't get pick 1 to get Boyd, we should go best mid at our first pick. I think we will go hard at Buddy and at Boyd and hope to get one of them.

The club has to be aggressive. If they want Boyd or Buddy then get one of them. We can’t afford to go into a trade week and barely miss out on our targeted player we want. We missed out on Tippett last year.

 

[Fatcat08]

Personally I think another a class mid with good pace and footskills who can kick goals is still one of our biggest needs and I'm struggling to see how that need plus a potentially very good player is worth less than our need for a key forward. That's just my opinion however I do agree that a very good midfield can make up for lack of a really a grade forward setup, the reverse is very rarely true. I doubt there have been two many finals teams that have had average to poor midfields and a gun forward setup. Our midfield is largely one paced and has a number of similar types. The emergence of Polec and the continued development of Mayes may change that in the next few years but even then I think we're still at least one A grade gun mid short. We have a lot of role players in our midfield but very few who have the capacity to tear a game apart.

 

[dlanod]

The club has to be aggressive. If they want Boyd or Buddy then get one of them. We can’t afford to go into a trade week and barely miss out on our targeted player we want. We missed out on Tippett last year.

Of course, that makes it so clear now... if only we'd just gotten someone last year, then we wouldn't have not gotten someone!

 

[Triple R]

Why is it that GWS want to trade their pick No. 1?

They want a senior (100 game) player and possibly a first round draft pick. Would this player be a defender or a midfielder? Would their offering up of the most "elite" forward in this year's draft crop be an indication that they either don't need him or don't rate him as highly as the forwards on their list?

If this is the case then they believe a team like the Bulldogs, St Kilda, Brisbane, or any other team that is in need of a forward would pay overs to get him. That, and they believe getting a first round pick in return would net them a top class midfielder or defender.

I feel the scenario is that if no-one trades for pick 1 then the bulldogs will get him with pick 3. Huge gamble on their part but it may just work out.

The other few scenarios are Collingwood lose a top class talent to GWS and their first rounder in order to get Boyd. Hawks push Buddy to them in exchange for pick 1 (I'm aware they could easily get him as a free agent). And a few other scenarios could play out...or none at all.

For the Lions to win out of this I would hope we push hard for Buddy as a restricted free agent, he shores up our forward line allowing an other KPF to come in and develop. It would not cost us our future talent, only salary cap space.

Otherwise, we have to develop what we have or may have in the future.

 

[BlackCaviar]

What about sauce and pick 5 , or it would have to be Hanley or Rockliff with pick 5
They want a A grader ,Or am i way of the mark?