Travis Varcoe

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Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

In the first half I didn't want Varcoe dropped - i wanted him rested.

My only explanation for him not wanting to go near a tackle must be his shoulder. Sure, he says he doesn;t think about it, but he's hardly going to let on if it is a problem.

Amazing finishing skills in the 3rd quarter, but he must be playing at far less than 100% to completely drop off his hunger for the contest.

At least, I hope so.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

Maydok said:
In the first half I didn't want Varcoe dropped - i wanted him rested.

My only explanation for him not wanting to go near a tackle must be his shoulder. Sure, he says he doesn;t think about it, but he's hardly going to let on if it is a problem.
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Not sure about that. You're supposed to tackle with your body, not your arms, but Varcoe's doing the latter and that's why he's falling off them.

And I'll echo the thoughts of everyone else - last year he seemed to be on the verge of being able to consistently string four quarters of great footy together. Now, he's drifting in and out of games. Fitness maybe? Hopefully he's rectified it by September.
 

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Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

Consistency is his concern. Just cant do it for long enough at the moment and I think we all wish we had more inside info on why.

It would be nice to define his goals though for what they are. Match winning and game breaking; as opposed to flashy and purely classy.

This is why some of us dont want him dropped. We are still in the business of trying to win enough games to make the 8 (which is looking more secure now) and then the top 4. Plenty of time to drop him if form warrants it but at the moment while we are winning its not anywhere close to logical to leave one of our true match winners out of the side.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

TheHonestyPolicy said:
Consistency is his concern. Just cant do it for long enough at the moment and I think we all wish we had more inside info on why.

It would be nice to define his goals though for what they are. Match winning and game breaking; as opposed to flashy and purely classy.

This is why some of us dont want him dropped. We are still in the business of trying to win enough games to make the 8 (which is looking more secure now) and then the top 4. Plenty of time to drop him if form warrants it but at the moment while we are winning its not anywhere close to logical to leave one of our true match winners out of the side.
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Agree with this totally - there is no doubt that without Trav's three goals in the third quarter we would have lost the game. And winning games must be our only priority.

I'm sure we are all hoping that the coaching staff are sending the right message to him during training, that his contribution must lift so that he's involved in the whole game, not just flashes of brilliance.

And I do also assume the club knows what the reason for his lack of 4-quarter contribution is, and are working on it - whether it is purely fitness (as Chris Scott said in answer to the tweet), or whether his shoulder/confidence or attitude are also factors.

I think it would be very foolish to drop Varcoe, almost cutting off your nose to spite your face. We all want Trav to improve, but the team is better with him than without. So I have faith that the coaching staff will do the right thing, to get the best out of Varcoe while keeping him in the team.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

HMac said:
And winning games must be our only priority.
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winning the premiership is our priority

and a varcoe who goes missing only to turn up and kick a few flashy goals isn't good enough

he needs to do more for us to win the flag
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

thegerman said:
Tackles, yep got to agree there, hasn't really stuck one for a while.
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Not many of his teammates have either. This is a big issue for me, but also a big positive in that we can be so poor in this area, yet still be 8-0.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

b
Duskfire said:
I never understand why so many supporters are defensive about players being dropped. It isnt a bad thing; everyone goes through form slumps, and it allows a youngster to get a couple of games. Us wanting Varcoe to have a bit of a spell arent suggesting he is a shit player, or that he should be traded or anything. Only that he needs to find some form, and the 2's is the best way to do that.

He was good tonight, but having an odd good game here and there isnt going to help us win another Flag. We need Varcoe performing those sorts of games consistently, and so far he just isnt showing it. He needs to play like that again next week, not wait three or four weeks before having another good game.
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That IS the whole point you miss. Dropping him to the 2's will not enhance our team at all, deprives us of his brilliance which he pops up with at least once every game, and last night , he got us over the line. Take his effort out, who replaces him and betters what he does?
He may not be reproducing those tackles of other years, but if he gets 1-3 goals every week, AND TIES UP A GOOD OPPONENT, and creates havoc for opposition just because he is there, makes him as undroppable as SJ

Best place for him to find form is exactly what he is doing
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

cynical said:
winning the premiership is our priority

and a varcoe who goes missing only to turn up and kick a few flashy goals isn't good enough

he needs to do more for us to win the flag
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talking flags is ridiculous right now, let's just get there by winning games. He may never be a 4/4 player, but if he does what he does often enough, tackles or not, he is essential for any tilt at a finals win.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

I have been thinking about it and I am wondering if what we percieve is a drop in form from Travis is in fact related to the new game plan. Maybe Travis has a different role in terms of maintaining the structures rather than his previous orders from Bomber?
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

The average punter likes to see players put their head over the ball and produce a consistent effort. Varcoe is not doing that and untill he does he is always likely to raise ire. However, the coaches know we his goal and ha bursts of brilliance. He is obviously far too important to be dropped but he remains a concern while he does produce a consisent attack on the ball or in the tackle.

I'd say he is probably the player Scott is going to have work closest with between now and September.

What a thrilling talent.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

bulletproof said:
The average punter likes to see players put their head over the ball and produce a consistent effort. Varcoe is not doing that and untill he does he is always likely to raise ire. However, the coaches know we his goal and ha bursts of brilliance. He is obviously far too important to be dropped but he remains a concern while he does produce a consisent attack on the ball or in the tackle.

I'd say he is probably the player Scott is going to have work closest with between now and September.

What a thrilling talent.
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What he absolutely needs is a big game against quality opposition. Problem is in the really physical, intense games he's nowhere to be seen. In two Grand Finals he's played one decent quarter, and even then there was bad decisions under pressure. Doesn't mean he has to throw himself head first into packs like Selwood (love to have 22 of him), but get and stay involved for four quarters. That's the final step.
 

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Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

Just out of interest i was wondering if anybody could pull the stats of what Varcoes opponants have achieved this year, in regards to overall disposals, effectiveness and influence on the contest.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

Simply , with TV its about quality not quantity.

He is close to our best finisher , certainly our best line breaking finisher. That he is under involved is just something we have to put up with because of what he offers the side. I don't see him as a defensive forward , he is not built to body bash. He is not a Nascar , he is an F1 type player built for speed and elite performance and if he keeps kick those goals that only few could do , I happy to have him in the 22.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

Berserker26 said:
http://www.geelongcats.com.au/cats tv/tabid/7942/default.aspx#playvideo

Tweet the coach Rd9. Watch it...


How can you be upset at a bloke for kicking 3 goals?
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Easy! they really weren't his goals! First one was thanks to Bundy, etc etc.
Apart from recieving when the boys dug deep in the third, he did ditto, got very lucky, maybe enough to save his skin.
His third goal was after he'd pulled out, then recieved it back, very lucky indeed, all thanks to his teamate.
Often its like having 17 men on the ground with him out there.
Scotty won't tollerate the soft outside type to long, guess its a matter of time IMO.
Like to see him dropped for Menzel next week.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

Turbocat said:
Simply , with TV its about quality not quantity.

He is close to our best finisher , certainly our best line breaking finisher. That he is under involved is just something we have to put up with because of what he offers the side. I don't see him as a defensive forward , he is not built to body bash. He is not a Nascar , he is an F1 type player built for speed and elite performance and if he keeps kick those goals that only few could do , I happy to have him in the 22.
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Agree with that as every side needs an outside runner with pace and elite kicking skills that can run and carry and provide the X factor much in the same mould as what Peter Riccardi used to bring to the table.
I would like to see him laying some more tackles and providing a bit more defensive pressure but maybe he has been assigned a different role this year.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

meto said:
Easy! they really weren't his goals! First one was thanks to Bundy, etc etc.
Apart from recieving when the boys dug deep in the third, he did ditto, got very lucky, maybe enough to save his skin.
His third goal was after he'd pulled out, then recieved it back, very lucky indeed, all thanks to his teamate.
Often its like having 17 men on the ground with him out there.
Scotty won't tollerate the soft outside type to long, guess its a matter of time IMO.
Like to see him dropped for Menzel next week.
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Just another load of bullshit from you on Varcoe meto.

Its a joke. On Varcoe, everyone knows of your vendetta, so your comments on him have zero credibility and just reek of bitterness and prejudice.

Thankfully, you're not on the match committee.

His third goal was a left foot snap on the run after misjudging a mark ( not pulling out ) ...

" They weren't really his goals "....hahahahahahhaa.....so all the goal assists he has racked up over the last two seasons ( remember those? ) must be his then?

You're making an idiot of yourself.
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

meto said:
Easy! they really weren't his goals! First one was thanks to Bundy, etc etc.
Apart from recieving when the boys dug deep in the third, he did ditto, got very lucky, maybe enough to save his skin.
His third goal was after he'd pulled out, then recieved it back, very lucky indeed, all thanks to his teamate.
Often its like having 17 men on the ground with him out there.
Scotty won't tollerate the soft outside type to long, guess its a matter of time IMO.
Like to see him dropped for Menzel next week.
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Sometimes i wonder if your really a Collingwood supporter in disguise as you only seem to contribute in a negative fashion.
If your expecting 30 possessions and 5 goals a game from Varcoe your going to be in for a short life.
In the last 2 games Varcoe has stepped up when the game has needed to be won and dominated in short bursts.
He is a matchwinner, plain and simple. 3 third quarter goals when we were getting outplayed not good enough for you.:confused:
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

David the Cat said:
Just another load of bullshit from you on Varcoe meto.

Its a joke. On Varcoe, everyone knows of your vendetta, so your comments on him have zero credibility and just reek of bitterness and prejudice.

Thankfully, you're not on the match committee.

His third goal was a left foot snap on the run after misjudging a mark ( not pulling out ) ...

" They weren't really his goals "....hahahahahahhaa.....so all the goal assists he has racked up over the last two seasons ( remember those? ) must be his then?

You're making an idiot of yourself.
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It's pretty simple. When Varcoe gets a goal assist he is being made to look good by someone else's finishing. When Varoce kicks a goal he is being made to look good by someone else's hardwork up the ground.

When Varcoe doesn't get a lot of the footy but kicks/sets up goals it shows that he isn't a good player because he can't get 20+ touches. When he gets 20+ touches but doesn't kick many goals it shows he isn't a good player because he can't impact the scoreboard.
:rolleyes:
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

CatmanForever said:
I have been thinking about it and I am wondering if what we percieve is a drop in form from Travis is in fact related to the new game plan. Maybe Travis has a different role in terms of maintaining the structures rather than his previous orders from Bomber?
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I don't have the benefit of seeing the Boys live but I also wonder if his role has changed slightly? In 2010 he had a period when he spent a lot of time on the ball in successive games and managed to get 20+ possessions per game. Varcoe is a player who you notice getting 20+ because he is such a smooth user and his class impresses so much.
But has his role changed in 2011 - are guys like Kelly and Stokes getting more time on ball at Varcoes expense? I think the 3rd 1/4 on Friday illustrates why we all want him to get the footy and be more consistent but is his role more a flanker or pocket in which case 12 -15 disposals is more like a good game?
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

Farmer2Goggin said:
I don't have the benefit of seeing the Boys live but I also wonder if his role has changed slightly? In 2010 he had a period when he spent a lot of time on the ball in successive games and managed to get 20+ possessions per game. Varcoe is a player who you notice getting 20+ because he is such a smooth user and his class impresses so much.
But has his role changed in 2011 - are guys like Kelly and Stokes getting more time on ball at Varcoes expense? I think the 3rd 1/4 on Friday illustrates why we all want him to get the footy and be more consistent but is his role more a flanker or pocket in which case 12 -15 disposals is more like a good game?
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I agree I do not get to the games live as well so it is difficult to tell from the TV. His form suggests he isn't playing as well but I have observed him a few times running into the spaces to take up the zone even when we have the ball. At the time I thought he was leading for our player but I reallised he was just zoning up. Othemes it looked like he was ignoring our player with the ball as he headed for his position in the zone. Maybe his problem is he just hasn't mastered the new game plan yet.

I was surprised he didn't get the coin toss in indigenous week as well.

At least some people are capable of discussing it rather than just calling other people stupid for having an opinion while offering nothing else to the discussion. Just like a 12yo would I suppose
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

CatmanForever said:
I agree I do not get to the games live as well so it is difficult to tell from the TV. His form suggests he isn't playing as well but I have observed him a few times running into the spaces to take up the zone even when we have the ball. At the time I thought he was leading for our player but I reallised he was just zoning up. Othemes it looked like he was ignoring our player with the ball as he headed for his position in the zone. Maybe his problem is he just hasn't mastered the new game plan yet.

I was surprised he didn't get the coin toss in indigenous week as well.

At least some people are capable of discussing it rather than just calling other people stupid for having an opinion while offering nothing else to the discussion. Just like a 12yo would I suppose
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Thanks CF - whatever it is I hope Travis realises his potential as he is an exceptional talent and capable of being a game changer for us.
I guess Travis is one of the versatile group that can play a fixed position as well as on the ball so Scott has that up his sleeve come September. On that theme it was great to see Duncan spend more time in the middle against the Blues - Scott is proving to be a coach who can walk the talk !!
 
Re: Calls for Varcoe to be dropped

The simple fact is that if any other player on the team kicked 3 goals we'd be singing his praises - Trav does it and these idiots get stuck into him.

If Lonergan doesn't get 25 disposals but stops his man we love him...if Varcoe doesn't get 25 disposals but kicks 3 goals we crucify him...if Pods/Stokes/Menzel/SJ/Tomahawk kicked 3 goals we'd be singing their praises.

Some blokes get the hardball (Selwood) and don't kick goals, some blokes (Varcoe) hang outside and finish the job.
 
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