Trent Cotchin or Matthew Kreuzer

[TheRedPill]

I think you've missed the point completely.

"who would you take out of the best ruckman or (for arguments sake) the 5th best midfielder"

When on earth did I say anything to that effect?

When you compared Dean Cox (the best ruckman) with Adam Cooney (for arguments sake the 5th best midfielder)

Do you understand yet or should we wait another day?

Ok, so effectively you're arguing that I made a Cox vs Cooney comparison.

We were talking about an unfair comparison, it doesn't matter who said it, it was an unfair comparison and I am sticking to my opinion.

I don't need to argue this crap. What a waste of time LOL.

Okay, sounds like you've changed your tune.

But yes, you did waste everyone's time by mistakenly accusing me of posting something that I never actually posted.

 

[ToO]

Chimp

 

[Kyusss]

surely 58 carlton supporters have voted
cotchin vs kreuzer come on thats just sick

judd vs hyde

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

Ok, so effectively you're arguing that I made a Cox vs Cooney comparison.

Okay, sounds like you've changed your tune.

But yes, you did waste everyone's time by mistakenly accusing me of posting something that I never actually posted.

Is that all you're arguing?

I agree the comparison was stupid, I only replied because you quoted me saying it's a pointless exercise unless it's used to highlight positional needs (which was my intent).

Now, back to the point, would it be more valuable to have Judd in your team, or Cox?

That was the question I support, and the person who posed the original question was trying to influence results by using a lower quality mid.

For Richmond, we would love to have Cox, but I would take Judd 10 times out of 10.

Judd will win you matches.

Judd will shark the opposition's hitout, burst from the pack and either setup your forwards or kick the goal himself.

Cox could get 30 touches and be "good for a ruckman" but he will never win you a match.


So after all that, I guess I am trying to say that if Kreuzer and Cotchin were equal in talent to the best ruck or best mid in the AFL - I would take Cotchin every time.

I would take the best midfielder over the best ruckman ANY time regardless of whether it was a Cotchin/Kreuzer debate too FWIW.

 

[qldbluesman_43]

Hypocritical much?

I responded to you in exactly the manner you responded to the other guy. That's why I didn't treat you with respect.

The argument is about a Carlton supporter who compared Cox to Cooney in order to make Kreuzer look better than Cotchin. I pointed out that this was a completely unfair argument - it is the equilivent to a Richmond supporter saying "Who would you pick, Chris Judd or Troy Simmonds?"

Then you come in with your "that's stupid" as if you think we expect these players to turn out exactly like the hypotheticals.

And as you said later in that post, it is about team structure ("ie; How effective would the Carlton midfield be with Cox/without Judd).

You are arguing because you think everyone else is an idiot, but you've just assumed this, we are talking about team structure as in the exact sentence I quoted above about Judd/Cox.



This is where I see the problem:

If you pick Cox to represent Kreuzer, then you must pick Judd or Ablett to represent Cotchin.

If you pick Cooney to represent Cotchin, then you must pick someone like Dean Brogan to represent Kreuzer.

lol sorry for making such an ambiguous statement. What I did mean to say was best ruck vs say 5th best midfielder. Because seriously Cooney vs Brogan. Nobody would pick Brogan. Likewise Cox vs Jablett - maybe 1/10 might consider cox. So in my eyes a fair comparison is cox vs cooney but obviously you feel differently.

I think this is the case because you have like 4 or 5 midfielders to 1 ruck.

 

[JEZZAS BLUES]

How can you compare a first year ruckman with a first year midfielder when ruckmen and most talls take a lot longer to develop and why i ask is there always people wanting to compare Carlton to Richmond on these forums anyway only time will tell who becomes the better side from the recent drafts.

 

[Rosstickle]

lol sorry for making such an ambiguous statement. What I did mean to say was best ruck vs say 5th best midfielder. Because seriously Cooney vs Brogan. Nobody would pick Brogan. Likewise Cox vs Jablett - maybe 1/10 might consider cox. So in my eyes a fair comparison is cox vs cooney but obviously you feel differently.

I think this is the case because you have like 4 or 5 midfielders to 1 ruck.

Exactly right, they wouldn't. Just like nobody would choose Kreuzer over Cotchin. Midfielders have much more impact and are more influential than ruckmen.

 

[Power King]

i'd take the young gun ruckman over the young gun midfielder, purely for positional purposes

 

[mickelboy182]

In the OP he states "If you were Carlton" so I would have thought Kreuze would of been the popular vote. Cotchin could of certainly gone pick 1, but I as a Carlton fan felt that Kreuzer was much more suited to our needs.

 

[TheRedPill]

Tiger, all I was saying was that these whole "who would you take" things are futile, and I even said in my post, "I know it wasn't you that brought it up".

In any case, qldbluesman, you can't just make the comparison one-sided because it's likely to end badly for you. Kreuzer = premier ruck. Cotchin = premier midfielder. A fair comparison will acknowledge that. If people will only choose the premier ruck 1/10 times then that reflects people's opinions about Cotchin v Kreuzer. Surely you realise how stupid it is to make the comparison imbalanced just to even it up?

 

[a_fighting_fury]

I would have taken the better footballer - Cotchin. Although I can see the Kreuzer filled a gap in the Carlton side. A tough decision

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

This thread reminds me of this thread:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193635

 

[}>-DEMON-<{]

I voted for Cale Morton

 

[Rosstickle]

I voted for Cale Morton

Good for you. His brother Mitch goes alright too.

 

[}>-DEMON-<{]

Good for you. His brother Mitch goes alright too.

Indeed

 

[Funkalicous]

I would have taken the better footballer - Cotchin. Although I can see the Kreuzer filled a gap in the Carlton side. A tough decision

Wasn't Kreuzer voted the best player in under 18s. - That would make him the better footballer, no?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Carlton's recruitment manager is well known for having a philosophy of taking the best talent and not recruiting on a needs basis. So Cotchin would've been the correct choice.

 

[Rosstickle]

Wasn't Kreuzer voted the best player in under 18s. - That would make him the better footballer, no?

Richard Tambling was considered top 3 or 4 in the under 18's. Wouldn't that make him better than Buddy?

 

[}>-DEMON-<{]

ouch Kruezer's just getting pwned now
PS Cale Morton

 

[celtic_pride]

Why the hell would we need a midfielder who is as common as muck (Trent Cotchin) when we already are loaded with gun midfielders, and we've been crying out for a decent ruckman for years ???

 

[HBK619]

Why the hell would we need a midfielder who is as common as muck (Trent Cotchin) when we already are loaded with gun midfielders, and we've been crying out for a decent ruckman for years ???

What'd ya pick Kreuzer for then?

And why did you pick Gibbs over Leuenberger, he is common as muck isn't he?

 

[Rosstickle]

Why the hell would we need a midfielder who is as common as muck (Trent Cotchin) when we already are loaded with gun midfielders, and we've been crying out for a decent ruckman for years ???

Probably because ruckmen are about as valuable as muck

The best three Rucks play for West Coast, Fremantle and Port Adelaide.

 

[DoubleO7]

Cotchin.

 

[Funkalicous]

Richard Tambling was considered top 3 or 4 in the under 18's. Wouldn't that make him better than Buddy?

Do you understand my argument regarding "better footballer"?

And I couldn't care what sort of head start a midfielder gets over a ruckman in the first year. You'd be demanding a refund for Cotchin if he couldn't jump ahead early.

 

[Charliebrow 16]

I'd have taken Cotchin. Looks very promising and will only get bigger and better when he's able to get in a full pre-season.