My use of the "FB&W said:
" smiley was to indicate i was joking around. -
AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Truly NATIONEL COMP
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" smiley was to indicate i was joking around. - Thread starter
- #77
Dry Rot said:
no not Maguire he hates the idea of losing melbourne teams. The wAr will be good because Victorians will never agree to which victorian teams to chop as long as it's not there team.
the victorian teams are stopping expansion and this is what will get the ball rolling as first QLD are told 'no you canr have another team because of victoria" and same for Sydney and so on.
What then are interstat fans to do? This will be the catalist for a rebel comp and so a war and when theres peace it will have to be at the expense of too many victorian teams.
Try this quick quiz:
A) Is there anybody who wants more victorian teams?
B How many agree too many victorian teams at the expense of expansion?
C) As long as its not my team right?
See Victorians will never agree to sacrifice it must be forced upon them for the good og the game.
Maguire can run the VFL with his retentive mates
It won't be for the good of the game, it will destroy the game.FB&W said:
If your proposal of wiping all the clubs occurs, EVERY Victorian club will form together under an alliance and take legal action against the AFL.
It will not happen.
- Thread starter
- #79
metallichris said:
if there is a rebel comp it wont mater. Make no mistake there will be a rebel comp of intestate teams if victorians dont sacrifice.
what else is other states to do? Victorians arrogantly think they own the game but as murdoch proved nobody does and if intestates are told "to bad, start your own comp' then they will.
ofcourse the intestate/intenational comp will attract the big money and then victorins will have to come cap in hand.
The war will sort it out if victorians wont. the days of victoriacentric thinking are over get onboard or get left behind.
you cant stand still these days Timmy Cahil put a stop to that.
- Thread starter
- #82
yes this is the hard part.Dry Rot said:
it is only by necesity thou. Intestate fans would prefer not to have a war, victorian fans would prefer not to have a war but what can be done if victorians refuse to thin out?
See in all this this is the one thing I have not seen anyone here come up and say 'there should be more teams in victoria. I think even most victorians belives there are to many teams is this not true? Intestsate fans definately think so.
Is this not agreed? The hard part is everyone says yes lets thin out victoria but not my team. What happens when someone with money like John Singleton wants a team put in on the Central Coast (where I live" but he can't have one because no Victorian will move aside? Will John Singleton take no for an answer when its so unfair? We have seen what happens with arrogance this is what happened in SL when QLD wanted more say in RL but were always told if they not happy start your own comp then and when Murdoc came along this is exactly what they did. Murdoch needed payTv sport, John Ribot wanted fairer reprsentaton for QLD and when they met each other they had a common enemy but for different agaendas but it did not matter as enemy of mu enemy is my friend right?
So what happens when Dimitrio and co keep telling intestate fans no more intestate teams because of victoria and someone contacts ghe likes of John Singletoon?
Nobody wants this but its the track we are heading because of victorian arogance. There will be a war if dimitrio keeps saying no because soon he will say no to somebody who dosnt take no for an answer.
- Thread starter
- #83
and more-
people like Telstra stadium trust now pay rugby teams like South sydney Rabbits and cantebury Bulldogs and West Tiger to play at Telstra stadium so why would they not help a super league type footy comp if they want to use telstra?
They want as many games as they can and are willing to pay.
one of the big possibilies would have been CH:::9 like packer did with cricket but I doubt this because Maguire is there now and he is victoriancentric, this is good anyway because CH:::9 and the packers are rugby men. but TV rights would still be sold to somebody even if CH7 showed both comps like ch;::9 did with the sl war they showed both.
I bet if AFL did not give rights back to CH7 nest year then Stokes would have been looking at something like a rebel comp anyway because the game is not owned by anyon.
this is at the crux of the matter. How long can dimitrio keep saying no to intestate fans? How long before somebody does not take no for an answer?
what happens then? Do Dimitrio then back down and say yes or dig his heels in? He cant be seen to back down so then the man who does not take no for an answer is left with no choice.
there is a certain inevitibility to all this is there not? Does anyone truly believe there will be no more expansion? And if so then how will it happen if victorians dont sacrifice?
there is only one way - war.
Please do not censor me for posti to much as I only stick to my threads only i do not flood the boards.
people like Telstra stadium trust now pay rugby teams like South sydney Rabbits and cantebury Bulldogs and West Tiger to play at Telstra stadium so why would they not help a super league type footy comp if they want to use telstra?
They want as many games as they can and are willing to pay.
one of the big possibilies would have been CH:::9 like packer did with cricket but I doubt this because Maguire is there now and he is victoriancentric, this is good anyway because CH:::9 and the packers are rugby men. but TV rights would still be sold to somebody even if CH7 showed both comps like ch;::9 did with the sl war they showed both.
I bet if AFL did not give rights back to CH7 nest year then Stokes would have been looking at something like a rebel comp anyway because the game is not owned by anyon.
this is at the crux of the matter. How long can dimitrio keep saying no to intestate fans? How long before somebody does not take no for an answer?
what happens then? Do Dimitrio then back down and say yes or dig his heels in? He cant be seen to back down so then the man who does not take no for an answer is left with no choice.
there is a certain inevitibility to all this is there not? Does anyone truly believe there will be no more expansion? And if so then how will it happen if victorians dont sacrifice?
there is only one way - war.
Please do not censor me for posti to much as I only stick to my threads only i do not flood the boards.
- Thread starter
- #86
Murray said:
No I do not take ***** off anybody I am serious.
You tell me then is there
1) not enough teams in Victoria
2 too many teams.
If you say 1 then that is your opinion and well have to disagree. But if you say 2 then what is the solution? Will you sacrifice your magpies for the good of the game Murray? Will hawk sacrifice his hawthorn?
No I bet not but I bet you would sacrifice each others teem. This is why there must be a clean slate it is the only way. Short term pain long term gane.
Serously what is the solution if not a rebel comp and war? Victorians misjudge fans from intestate thinking we will alsways acept the status quo. I want another team in Sydeny, QLDers want a 2nd team, NZ wants a team, Newcastle wants a team who is going to give it to them?
Do you think people in QLD will follow hawthorn if they cant have there own team? Really would you?
There is no other way unless of cours victorians be patriotic and do the right thing but i doubt they will and thats not critisism i would be the same. But sometimes youv got to hurt the few to please the many.
intestate fans will not be patient forever and there are hard decisions for demitrio and co to be made.
Tell me do you not agree with this:
1}the need for expansion
2. the danger of soccer if AFL rests on its larels
3. dimitri and co must make hard decisions.
Do you not agree?
Sure you may say it dosnt matter now but it soon will before you can say Timmy Cahill and then it may be to late.
AFL will die if it does not embrace its fans in intestste. AFL will just become VFL again while intestate fans embrace soccer. John Oniell is already saying the A league must expand for the same reasons - he is a VISIONARY and can see outside the square. Dimitrio and co have become complacent and John Oniell eats the complacent for breakfast.
I do not take your ***** these are honest facts.
- Thread starter
- #87
and dont forget what the first thing John Oneil did when he got into soccer - he wiped the slate clean of all the old teams so nobody say its never been done before or cant be done.
If John Oniell got hold of AFL I bet he would say there must be a reduction of victorian teams and if they didnt do it themselves he woulf force it on them like he did with soccer. soccer now has never been healthir in this country so the argument it would kill AFL is nonsense. It would only kill some fans of the old teams but they would get over it or get replaced by intestate fans.
John Oniell has written the book on this one
If John Oniell got hold of AFL I bet he would say there must be a reduction of victorian teams and if they didnt do it themselves he woulf force it on them like he did with soccer. soccer now has never been healthir in this country so the argument it would kill AFL is nonsense. It would only kill some fans of the old teams but they would get over it or get replaced by intestate fans.
John Oniell has written the book on this one
- Thread starter
- #90
Hawkk said:
yes hawk you are a walking talkin example of Victorian arogance and ignorance. When the rebel comp starts and the war is on it will be you who will be on the outer.
Victorians will be put in there place and come begging cap in hand to be allowed in the real comp while your teams go back to VFL. Then we will ban people from Victoria from joinin Football boords because nobody will wont to go bakwards to the old victoriacentric days.
Enjoy your limited days left of victorian arrogance because intestate fans will laugh longest and loudest.
Enjoy the VFL with Magure.
you too richo.
dead clubs both
Richo83 said:FB&W: Worst poster of the year, and that's saying something with Parrot going around.
Where is spell_checker and spell_check? They'd be having heart attacks.
But seriously, it's one thing to spell national wrong, but to make grammatical and spelling errors consistently is embarrassing.
This idea is a joke, it's ridiculous and wouldn't work. No Kiwi's give a FF about AFL, so why put a team there?
You really are a fool.
Shouldn't have even looked in here, especially after getting a taste of this in the suggestions forum.
Adrian Shelton said:There was a right way to do this(start a national competition), that chance passed long ago, doesnt really matter what happens now its always going to be a mess
ps
Up the SANFL!!!!!
Cheers to that!
Kildonan
Premium Platinum
spell_check said:Shouldn't have even looked in here, especially after getting a taste of this in the suggestions forum.
It's a nightmare, isn't it?
I thought you'd have had a field day, correcting away, but there's just much work for so little reward. It's just not worth it.
Edit: At least he spelled 'truly' correctly.
Exe Gesis
Kylo was here
- Sep 6, 2005
- 147,816
- 97,740
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
I'm a big advocate of a more national comp. There are probably many more who agree too.
However, one thing I've learnt in reconsidering, is that you should never have a national comp for the sake of having a national comp if the nation itself and the infrastructure cannot support it or is too problematic to solve.
AR had its best chance to go national in the early 1900's and again during the 1950's. Even as late as the early 1970's. There was always that Vic-centric mentality to stuff things up.
However, we are where we are today.
Unfortunately, for many reasons already explained here by others, a more national comp in the AFL (meaning less Vic teams and more teams from Tasmania, Darwin, Nth Qld, Canberra, West Sydney, Gold Coast) is a logistical nightmare and there isn't the infrastructure or money to really prop such a gaggle of teams up.
Also, no matter what now, to reduce Vic teams either by merging them, relocating them or killing them off, is going to ruin the sport in Victoria. Will turn thousands of fans away, and ultimately end up hurting that proposed 'AFL' comp. Trading a million passionate Vic fans for hundreds of thousands of interstate fans.
The only way a new 'AFL' would work, is indeed if a SuperLeague rival comp started, let's assume, from a joint venture between the WAFL and SANFL. Where with backing from a multi-millionaire, or corporation, they were able to organize a new comp with 3 teams from WA, 3 teams from SA, 1 from Sydney, 1 from QLD, 1 from Tassie, etc, and invite a few rebel Vic teams like perhaps St Kilda, North Melbourne.
The process of this would probably only succeed (if it succeeded at all) in forcing the existing AFL to do a deal where there were less Vic teams, thru merger/relocation, in exchange for more expansion teams, and was able to bring teams like Norwood or East Fremantle back to their glory among greats like Carlton, Collingwood. In the process, making the HOF recognize more non-Victorians, and altered the official record books to include ALL AR history in all state leagues, or start anew.
However, one thing I've learnt in reconsidering, is that you should never have a national comp for the sake of having a national comp if the nation itself and the infrastructure cannot support it or is too problematic to solve.
AR had its best chance to go national in the early 1900's and again during the 1950's. Even as late as the early 1970's. There was always that Vic-centric mentality to stuff things up.
However, we are where we are today.
Unfortunately, for many reasons already explained here by others, a more national comp in the AFL (meaning less Vic teams and more teams from Tasmania, Darwin, Nth Qld, Canberra, West Sydney, Gold Coast) is a logistical nightmare and there isn't the infrastructure or money to really prop such a gaggle of teams up.
Also, no matter what now, to reduce Vic teams either by merging them, relocating them or killing them off, is going to ruin the sport in Victoria. Will turn thousands of fans away, and ultimately end up hurting that proposed 'AFL' comp. Trading a million passionate Vic fans for hundreds of thousands of interstate fans.
The only way a new 'AFL' would work, is indeed if a SuperLeague rival comp started, let's assume, from a joint venture between the WAFL and SANFL. Where with backing from a multi-millionaire, or corporation, they were able to organize a new comp with 3 teams from WA, 3 teams from SA, 1 from Sydney, 1 from QLD, 1 from Tassie, etc, and invite a few rebel Vic teams like perhaps St Kilda, North Melbourne.
The process of this would probably only succeed (if it succeeded at all) in forcing the existing AFL to do a deal where there were less Vic teams, thru merger/relocation, in exchange for more expansion teams, and was able to bring teams like Norwood or East Fremantle back to their glory among greats like Carlton, Collingwood. In the process, making the HOF recognize more non-Victorians, and altered the official record books to include ALL AR history in all state leagues, or start anew.
StKildonan said:
I suppose you've got to give credit where it's due.
Besides from truly, the overall idea does have merit, but it's not going to happen.
catters05
Norm Smith Medallist
g.g. said:
hmmm no one saw how this one turned out for Rugby League?
Too risky for the game right now with the Soccer invasion.
- Thread starter
- #97
g.g. said:
GG this is what ive been saying all along except you can spell. What you say is how it wouild work and why. What people cant get their head around is that yes it will happen almost inevitibly as Victorians wont thin out.
What happens when the rest of the states are fed up? wHAt makes people think everyone will wait on the victorans?
No.
Intestate fans wont wait forever + victorians will never thin out voluntarly + people like John Singleton wanting a team + Stadiums like Telstra Stadium and Newcastl Stadium paying money for a team to fill there grounds = Rebel competition = WAR!.
The peace will thin out the victorians. When this happens victorians will say they never seen it comiing while intestate fans will say....
WE WARNED YOU!!
- Thread starter
- #98
catters05 said:
Yes catter the soccer invasion is THE REASON to wish for war. John Oniell and the A leage will eventualy devour all sports that dont prepare to compete with it N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L-L-Y. Timmiy Cahill is the hero of the new generaton.
A Leage will go truly national while the AFL only pretends
PS: Spell~Check man youre going to get over me. Nothing as anally retentive as spelling nazis. Soooooooooooooooooooooo twentieth century
Exe Gesis
Kylo was here
- Sep 6, 2005
- 147,816
- 97,740
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
It would seem Soccer is not a genuine threat on face value, and I see that too, but nothing should be taken for granted either. With more immigration into this nation over the coming decades, and the unrivalled global reach/money of soccer, and the rising junior involvement in Australia, and the ultimate goal of aspiring youngsters being a multi-million dollar contract overseas that many other national sports can't offer...then soccer can really only grow in Australia.
Not sure about it toppling AR, or when, though I think it's possible. AR runs so deep in our Australian heritage beyond Soccer, which is one of its biggest advantages over soccer.
That said, there's no pressing need for AR to force clubs out in order to become more national, especially while the infrastructure/money cannot really support it. However, there can be a valid argument built around the idea that perhaps sooner than later is the best time for AR to survive a SuperLeague-type war. It's already about 50 years too late. So much passion, so much money now, so much invested corporate interest and tv deals. If there was a mass-restructuring of AR in the 1950's that saw 5 Vic super teams remain, and contained the very biggest 2 or 3 WAFL/SANFL clubs, the AR game would have bounced back in Victoria eventually. People would have eventually come around to supporting a Vic team in Victoria.
Eventually the true AR supporters would come back to the game. Just like the RL war showed. Thousands of Western Suburbs, Balmain, Illawarra, Newtown, and North Sydney fans did come back to the game. The same would happen if South Sydney ended up in the Central Coast.
For AFL, perhaps the only feasible way is for relocations to occur. Keeping a vested interest in Victorian fans in a team that is based interstate, whilst also enabling expansion in those other regions like Tasmania, Darwin, etc. Even in that, eventually Victorians would bounce back and adapt. There'd be thousands lost, but they'd come back eventually in the kids of tomorrow.
The SA and WA people had to adapt and deal with the collapse of their once mighty state leagues under the draining of talent to the VFL, and ultimately the demise of those individual teams' sense of national greatness alongside VFL teams like Cwood/Carlton, with the emergence of new franchizes like West Coast Eagles or Adelaide Crows, that are merely representative of those leagues. So I think Victorians could adapt too. The key reason why being the level of passion for AR in Victoria being even higher than RL in Sydney. As in, the crowds are so big compared to RL and Sydney traditionally saying there's always more to do in Sydney than just go to the footy...not putting down RL's passion factor, but Melbourne's is surely stronger when considering crowds.
Not sure about it toppling AR, or when, though I think it's possible. AR runs so deep in our Australian heritage beyond Soccer, which is one of its biggest advantages over soccer.
That said, there's no pressing need for AR to force clubs out in order to become more national, especially while the infrastructure/money cannot really support it. However, there can be a valid argument built around the idea that perhaps sooner than later is the best time for AR to survive a SuperLeague-type war. It's already about 50 years too late. So much passion, so much money now, so much invested corporate interest and tv deals. If there was a mass-restructuring of AR in the 1950's that saw 5 Vic super teams remain, and contained the very biggest 2 or 3 WAFL/SANFL clubs, the AR game would have bounced back in Victoria eventually. People would have eventually come around to supporting a Vic team in Victoria.
Eventually the true AR supporters would come back to the game. Just like the RL war showed. Thousands of Western Suburbs, Balmain, Illawarra, Newtown, and North Sydney fans did come back to the game. The same would happen if South Sydney ended up in the Central Coast.
For AFL, perhaps the only feasible way is for relocations to occur. Keeping a vested interest in Victorian fans in a team that is based interstate, whilst also enabling expansion in those other regions like Tasmania, Darwin, etc. Even in that, eventually Victorians would bounce back and adapt. There'd be thousands lost, but they'd come back eventually in the kids of tomorrow.
The SA and WA people had to adapt and deal with the collapse of their once mighty state leagues under the draining of talent to the VFL, and ultimately the demise of those individual teams' sense of national greatness alongside VFL teams like Cwood/Carlton, with the emergence of new franchizes like West Coast Eagles or Adelaide Crows, that are merely representative of those leagues. So I think Victorians could adapt too. The key reason why being the level of passion for AR in Victoria being even higher than RL in Sydney. As in, the crowds are so big compared to RL and Sydney traditionally saying there's always more to do in Sydney than just go to the footy...not putting down RL's passion factor, but Melbourne's is surely stronger when considering crowds.
If it aint broke why fix it?
We have a fantastic competition. Practically every team in the competition has had a chance to snare a flag in the last 5 years, we play home and away fixtures in every state and territory...if that's not national enough for you, I don't know what is?
We have a fantastic competition. Practically every team in the competition has had a chance to snare a flag in the last 5 years, we play home and away fixtures in every state and territory...if that's not national enough for you, I don't know what is?
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