Under 18s Championships

[JOELY]

Watched the SA vs Vic C game last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.

It's hard to be too unhappy with our picks after seeing that.

The one I'm not sure about is Broomhead. He is definitely quick, but seems like the sort of player that goes 100% all of the time, which is great in most aspects of the game, but in others can come across as a bit out of control when poise is needed. I now understand why people have said he is both a good kick and an average kick because his technique is a bit loose and I can see it being a tad inconsistent.

He didn't get much of it but there was two bits of play that stood out for me. One was in the third quarter where he genuinely put his head over the ball when others may have opted out. I don't know much about recruiting but I imagine that sort of thing has scouts reaching for their notebooks. It's good to know which ones are going to go when it's their turn. Second moment was in the last when he was tackled by one arm, but was able to fend off then release the handball while being tackled by another player. Was clever play with a touch of magic.

 

[JOELY]

gotcha

http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/464137/nab-afl-u18s-wa-v-sa-q1/

 

[Knightmare]

I'm curious why Grundy has dropped so far down the pecking order amongst you draft watchers. Earlier in the year it seems like you all had him top 3 or at least top 5, and all of a sudden he's dropped down. I'm curious whether it's because you heard clubs weren't interested in taking ruckmen earlier or whether it was also a talent thing that you've got all those players mentioned as the best of the draft and no longer include Grundy in that group.

Not so much down our rankings as much as none of the clubs selecting early draft needed a ruckman with GWS having no interest in adding to their young ruck stocks.

Grundy to most scouts on here anyway was considered him a clear top 5 or in many cases top 3 and higher.

Clubs are increasingly looking to go the more mature route with ruckmen having had so much success trading for those underutilised ruckmen from opposition lists in recent times.

Clubs have been inpatient waiting for ruckmen to develop with the considerable time they take to develop and with so many in the past going earlier than they probably should it's now more a case of clubs don't want to spend a first round selection on ruckman and I think in coming seasons there will be very few even going first round.
Early tip but not expecting any ruckmen to go inside the top 30 next year at this point anyway.

 

[Dundalis]

Not so much down our rankings as much as none of the clubs selecting early draft needed a ruckman with GWS having no interest in adding to their young ruck stocks.

Grundy to most scouts on here anyway was considered him a clear top 5 or in many cases top 3 and higher.

Clubs are increasingly looking to go the more mature route with ruckmen having had so much success trading for those underutilised ruckmen from opposition lists in recent times.

Clubs have been inpatient waiting for ruckmen to develop with the considerable time they take to develop and with so many in the past going earlier than they probably should it's now more a case of clubs don't want to spend a first round selection on ruckman and I think in coming seasons there will be very few even going first round.
Early tip but not expecting any ruckmen to go inside the top 30 next year at this point anyway.

Unless a club already has a superstar ruckmen then I don't get that line of reasoning. I'm not saying the clubs are wrong, more I guess querying Grundy's value, as I can't help but be sceptical with the praise he has been given, yet he dropped to our pick. If he's the best ruckman to have come along in a few years like some are saying, then to me if your best ruckman is say Will Minson (not that he's a bad ruck by any stretch of the imagination), then he'd still be worth taking as purely the best talent available. Yet that wasn't the case, and the Bulldogs aren't the only club with that type of situation that picked before us.

I'm certainly not doubting Grundy is a talented player, I just don't like getting involved of the hype of our draftees, who are always players who slid and are way better than where they are picked, simply because we picked them. I prefer reading the honest and factual assessments where I can find them.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I think it's one of those temporary blip on the radars. Clubs have just gone through the first year of FA. Then there's the needs basis.

So some are now thinking "why speculate & give up a high draft pick for a ruck". So many are busts, so many are late developers. So ATM clubs are gun shy to overlook a "certain 150 game pick", perhaps it's also about recruiters covering their ass? "FA is the way to go when we want a ruck," is todays mantra.

I think being the first year of FA, having a strong list but deficient obviously in one area. The de-listings show that. We just simply got very lucky, Dekka suggests he had him at number 3 anyway.

It'll cycle again & talent like Grundy won't slide as far in another two yrs or so.

 

[Knightmare]

I see it in a similar way to Obese Arachnid where I think it might just be a blip on the AFL recruiters radars.

It's just one of those periods where clubs have had such unusual success trading for depth ruckmen on opposition lists that they seem to have really lowered their perception of the value of draft age ruckmen and as a result Collingwood have managed to get exceptionally lucky. In addition to that they probably think with the introduction of free agency that they will be able to add a ruckman much more easily than was previously possible.

Grundy is in the boat where had you told me at the start of the year, the middle of the year at the time of the u18 champs or even with a month to go in the season I'd be asking you "did we tank the season?" It's absolute stupidity that Grundy got through to our selection.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Hagla (and others), thanks heaps. Terrific! I watched first half SA/Vic Country. Some nice work by our boys I thought. Great to watch a game rather than a highlights package. It gives a bit more of an idea.

It's a good end to end game of footy for the most part. Membrey looks very dangerous and competitive but I wonder if he could replicate it at AFL level? Broomhead looks good on a wing, seems quite secure with his disposal, nurses it a little like Daisy with his short kicks. Liked what I saw of Kennedy and Grundy.

I was also very impressed with the goal umpires.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

I see it in a similar way to Obese Arachnid where I think it might just be a blip on the AFL recruiters radars.

It's just one of those periods where clubs have had such unusual success trading for depth ruckmen on opposition lists that they seem to have really lowered their perception of the value of draft age ruckmen and as a result Collingwood have managed to get exceptionally lucky. In addition to that they probably think with the introduction of free agency that they will be able to add a ruckman much more easily than was previously possible.

Grundy is in the boat where had you told me at the start of the year, the middle of the year at the time of the u18 champs or even with a month to go in the season I'd be asking you "did we tank the season?" It's stupidity absolute stupidity that Grundy got through to our selection.

It's just one of those things that happens in the draft isn't it? I remember the year we got Sidebottom thinking how ridiculous it was that a kid who just got 30 touches and ten goals in the TAC final would drop to us at 11. But there were just so many other strong, highly rated prospects before him that he fell. This year the draft as a whole was shallow but the first twenty were very strong and lots of clubs didn't need a ruck so loopholes were created. It is ridiculous but it happens. I think this is actually one of those rare instances where Collingwood posters are not overblowing a kid just because he came to us. He actually seems to be really good!

 

[Laser Beams]

Hagla (and others), thanks heaps. Terrific! I watched first half SA/Vic Country. Some nice work by our boys I thought. Great to watch a game rather than a highlights package. It gives a bit more of an idea.

It's a good end to end game of footy for the most part. Membrey looks very dangerous and competitive but I wonder if he could replicate it at AFL level? Broomhead looks good on a wing, seems quite secure with his disposal, nurses it a little like Daisy with his short kicks. Liked what I saw of Kennedy and Grundy.

I was also very impressed with the goal umpires.

From watching the full game, whilst he starts off very strongly with three goals in the first quarter he really seems to fumble a lot of marks, not taking them cleanly or one-grabbing like a couple of the other forwards playing. Definitely looks to be very competitive though.

 

[Knightmare]

Hagla (and others), thanks heaps. Terrific! I watched first half SA/Vic Country. Some nice work by our boys I thought. Great to watch a game rather than a highlights package. It gives a bit more of an idea.

It's a good end to end game of footy for the most part. Membrey looks very dangerous and competitive but I wonder if he could replicate it at AFL level? Broomhead looks good on a wing, seems quite secure with his disposal, nurses it a little like Daisy with his short kicks. Liked what I saw of Kennedy and Grundy.

I was also very impressed with the goal umpires.

Membrey has a real presence. Mid year I was feeling he was more of a mid draft prospect but the way he finished the season was really something else just finding that next gear with his play and really playing a man's game marking everything and looking like a different player.

I've made the comment a number of times but the u18s are so open. They are coached specifically in such a way to display a players skills and to not cause an ugly stopage fest or flooding type game so it can favour those skilled outside types really displaying their skills most.

I can only guess this was the game where Grundy ran into the female umpire?

 

[Knightmare]

I think this is actually one of those rare instances where Collingwood posters are not overblowing a kid just because he came to us. He actually seems to be really good!

It's worth just checking the d+t board with the old phantom drafts from early in the year. Don't think too many had Grundy outside of the top 3 so it's not so much Collingwood fans hyping him as much as it is general u18 watchers.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I think Membrey would've been on our shortlist if we didn't have Paine & have faith in him too.

If we were looking for that third tall sticky mit....well what would happen to Grundy?
It's obvious that we were going to target two mids, we need them.

Thankfully we weren't in that conundrum.

 

[Hagla]

Membrey has a real presence. Mid year I was feeling he was more of a mid draft prospect but the way he finished the season was really something else just finding that next gear with his play and really playing a man's game marking everything and looking like a different player.

I've made the comment a number of times but the u18s are so open. They are coached specifically in such a way to display a players skills and to not cause an ugly stopage fest or flooding type game so it can favour those skilled outside types really displaying their skills most.

I can only guess this was the game where Grundy ran into the female umpire?

He kicked the ball off the ground for a goal and into her face. He did sort of give her a quick one armed hug on the way past to say sorry though

 

[Old Spice]

Unless a club already has a superstar ruckmen then I don't get that line of reasoning. I'm not saying the clubs are wrong, more I guess querying Grundy's value, as I can't help but be sceptical with the praise he has been given, yet he dropped to our pick. If he's the best ruckman to have come along in a few years like some are saying, then to me if your best ruckman is say Will Minson (not that he's a bad ruck by any stretch of the imagination), then he'd still be worth taking as purely the best talent available. Yet that wasn't the case, and the Bulldogs aren't the only club with that type of situation that picked before us.

I'm certainly not doubting Grundy is a talented player, I just don't like getting involved of the hype of our draftees, who are always players who slid and are way better than where they are picked, simply because we picked them. I prefer reading the honest and factual assessments where I can find them.

Before the draft, there was a debate about the value of taking ruck prospects high, i.e. top 10. My view was, and remains, that unless a ruck has the rare talents of a Nic Naitinui, using one of those picks is a potential waste, especially when we think about some of the dominant rucks of today who came through the rookie draft: Cox, Sandilands, Mumford, Jolly. Not to mention later picks. For me, the weight was on the money for us at 18, 19 or 20.

So, outside of top 10 picks, there wasn't really a side who needed a ruck. Carlton are awash, GWS will simply offload one of their surplus stars when the time comes for finals contention, GCS has Smith and Philips, Geelong have McIntosh, West and Vardy, Freo Sandilands and Clarke. North maybe might have taken Grundy, but let's face it, they need success now in order to shore up their position in the League. It may also be a philosophical thing a la GWS trading one in later when they're in the hunt. North also were always going to bring in another ruck, in this case Currie as a bargain hunt.

 

[Knightmare]

He kicked the ball off the ground for a goal and into her face. He did sort of give her a quick one armed hug on the way past to say sorry though

Yes that will be the play, couldn't quite remember what happened but that sounds right. The girl has some toughness and good for her going on with things and not making a fuss.

Girlfriend material for young Brodie I'm thinking.

 

[Laser Beams]

Yes that will be the play, couldn't quite remember what happened but that sounds right. The girl has some toughness and good for her going on with things and not making a fuss.

Girlfriend material for young Brodie I'm thinking.

Would be a funny story for the question, 'How did you guys meet?'

 

[THATSGOLD]

How good is Mayes. Should have gone number one.

 

[blaze036]

Yes that will be the play, couldn't quite remember what happened but that sounds right. The girl has some toughness and good for her going on with things and not making a fuss.

Girlfriend material for young Brodie I'm thinking.

Brodies girlfriend should be sally pearson.

I'm already thinking of the potential father sons

 

[Dundalis]

Before the draft, there was a debate about the value of taking ruck prospects high, i.e. top 10. My view was, and remains, that unless a ruck has the rare talents of a Nic Naitinui, using one of those picks is a potential waste, especially when we think about some of the dominant rucks of today who came through the rookie draft: Cox, Sandilands, Mumford, Jolly. Not to mention later picks. For me, the weight was on the money for us at 18, 19 or 20.

So, outside of top 10 picks, there wasn't really a side who needed a ruck. Carlton are awash, GWS will simply offload one of their surplus stars when the time comes for finals contention, GCS has Smith and Philips, Geelong have McIntosh, West and Vardy, Freo Sandilands and Clarke. North maybe might have taken Grundy, but let's face it, they need success now in order to shore up their position in the League. It may also be a philosophical thing a la GWS trading one in later when they're in the hunt. North also were always going to bring in another ruck, in this case Currie as a bargain hunt.

If a bloke is rated a top 3 talent and one of the best ruck prospects in years, that doesn't qualify? Other than Naitanui and Kreuzer, who were actually taken within the top 3 of their drafts, what other ruckmen have actually been rated that highly pre-draft and dropped? I think rucks get taken around where they tend to be rated, most years don't have ruckmen rated amongst the top few because there's a lot fewer of them compared to mids.

I think there must be a bit more to it than simply clubs don't need a ruckmen. Teams with good recruiting staffs don't draft purely for needs, they draft best available, with needs a secondary consideration. Especially in the first round I would have thought. I wonder if character played into it, given clubs seem to be quite picky about that aspect of a player in recent times. Or whether plain and simple clubs never rated Grundy quite as highly as the junior watchers on this board.

I watched the game posted in this thread also. Thought Grundy looked fine. I saw no outstanding qualities, though I'm no expert when it comes to watching juniors play football.

 

[TradeDraft]

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Grundy looked great in the Games but was showed his Forward Potential vs Vic Country