Unfettered Free Agency

[Wally Carter]

How would the future really look if their was no salary cap, no draft and the cheque book dominated our sport?

I think it would be something like this:

Six or seven Victorian clubs could not compete and would most likely drop down to the VFL.

Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney and West Sydney would become extinct.

Port Adelaide as an AFL entity would become extinct.


West Coast and Adelaide would become Chelsea and Man U, Collingwood would become Everton, Essendon would become West Ham, Carlton, Fremantle and possibly Hawthorn would become Bromich West Albion, Middlesborough and Sunderland.

The game would lose millions of supporters and the competition would become a joke.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Agree.

The unofficial advantage wealthier clubs have now would be enshrined. Carlton could stop having to pass their paper bags under their table and make it official.

I dont how people can watch competitions (like in soccer) where 3-4 teams can win every year

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Is that what free agency means? Does there have to be no salary cap? I'm not sure that there are many advocates for unfettered free agency, just a form of free agency where you can top up your list at any time with players not listed. They would probably have to be former AFL listed players or rookies or have a minimum age so that players set to go in next year's draft are not touched, but if your ruckman all go down, you should be able to use a VFL top up player for the rest of the year as everybody has previously had access to and passed on that player anyway.

The NRL maintains its salary cap but has no draft and they have had 8 different premiers in the last 9 years. While it's true that the AFL have had 9 different premiers in the last 12 years, it still shows that removing the draft does not have to necessarily affect competition equality if done right.

Even maintaining the salary cap and draft, free agency is a good idea. I realise that the problem comes in when you have a wanted player picking who they want to join and bypassing the intention of the draft. You might build a side capable of winning a flag or two but it will disband fairly quickly as club loyalty will become an outdated concept.

 

[Bay Pie]

West Coast and Adelaide would become Chelsea and Man U, Collingwood would become Everton, Essendon would become West Ham, Carlton, Fremantle and possibly Hawthorn would become Bromich West Albion, Middlesborough and Sunderland.

Collingwood would be Liverpool & Essendon would be Arsenal.

You would have 4 dominant clubs. WCE, Crows, Dons & Pies.

Unfettered free agency would benefit my club, but I don't want it as it's not good for a national competition.

Some form of free agency will come with the PSD draft a thing of the past. In what form, I have no idea. Salary caps & ND are crucial to AFL.

 

[Wally Carter]

Is that what free agency means? Does there have to be no salary cap?

It's just a hypothetical conversation ODN.

Some of the supporters of limited free agency are putting points forward and I just want to see opinions of what would occurr if the market really ruled the competition.

Even maintaining the salary cap and draft, free agency is a good idea.

I don't agree, clubs with greater off field financial clout would have a distinct advantage.

I realise that the problem comes in when you have a wanted player picking who they want to join and bypassing the intention of the draft. You might build a side capable of winning a flag or two but it will disband fairly quickly as club loyalty will become an outdated concept.

Agree. Football would become more focused on the individual rather than the club. I don't see this as a good thing.

 

[Pie eyed]

Is that what free agency means? Does there have to be no salary cap? I'm not sure that there are many advocates for unfettered free agency, just a form of free agency where you can top up your list at any time with players not listed. They would probably have to be former AFL listed players or rookies or have a minimum age so that players set to go in next year's draft are not touched, but if your ruckman all go down, you should be able to use a VFL top up player for the rest of the year as everybody has previously had access to and passed on that player anyway.

The NRL maintains its salary cap but has no draft and they have had 8 different premiers in the last 9 years. While it's true that the AFL have had 9 different premiers in the last 12 years, it still shows that removing the draft does not have to necessarily affect competition equality if done right.

Even maintaining the salary cap and draft, free agency is a good idea. I realise that the problem comes in when you have a wanted player picking who they want to join and bypassing the intention of the draft. You might build a side capable of winning a flag or two but it will disband fairly quickly as club loyalty will become an outdated concept.

While I agree with most fo your post I would hate to ever see the AFL trading players and coaches in the ad hoc manner the NRL do.
Players and coaches already signed with different clubs sometimes even before the current season begins expose NRL for the amateur operation it is.

No player contracted to another side would ever be welcome at my club period.

 

[Rob]

Armageddon paranoia board.

It's funny how most other sporting competitions around the world operate under a completely free market yet still don't have most of their teams going under. Yet if you brought it in here, somehow all these teams would fold.

I'm not suggesting it would be a good thing, but it would be nowhere near as bad as some of you say.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It's just a hypothetical conversation ODN.

Of course. I'm just floating that there are variations of free agency. If we maintained the draft and salary cap, it would be a fairly innocuous version of free agency we have in place.

Some of the supporters of limited free agency are putting points forward and I just want to see opinions of what would occurr if the market really ruled the competition.

If their points are unfettered free agency, then I agree that you could have a kind of manufactured success to match the manufactured success we see in the current cyclical system.

I don't agree, clubs with greater off field financial clout would have a distinct advantage.

Was just referring to the ability to top up through free agency. Maybe you have to have nominated for the draft the previous year to be brought in to boost an injury ravaged club. I just don't see the value in having to play young players out of position to fill a hole in your side, not for a whole season at least.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Armageddon paranoia board.

It's funny how most other sporting competitions around the world operate under a completely free market yet still don't have most of their teams going under. Yet if you brought it in here, somehow all these teams would fold.

I'm not suggesting it would be a good thing, but it would be nowhere near as bad as some of you say.

Their teams might no go under but do they win? There is a far greater amount of corporate support and private ownership in most of these competitions, and teams can be content to float along mid table, and maybe target mid season competitions (of which there are a lot usually) to hang their hats on. We have the preseason comp which is not prestigious, a minor premiership which is basically worthless and a premiership, the only thing held in high regard. There are so few opportunities to win and salvage something out of the season.

Our corporates are far more likely to drop off IMO, and there are far less of them to replace them.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

While I agree with most fo your post I would hate to ever see the AFL trading players and coaches in the ad hoc manner the NRL do.
Players and coaches already signed with different clubs sometimes even before the current season begins expose NRL for the amateur operation it is.

No player contracted to another side would ever be welcome at my club period.

Oh the midseason signings are ridiculous I agree. If a player leaves when he is required, you can see situations like when Wayne Bennett dropped Justin Hodges because he was going to the Roosters or you can see situations where fans know a favourite is leaving because he is getting on and the club can't offer him much, so they embrace him and ride out the final few weeks like a testimonal year, like Petero Civoniceva when he was leaving the Broncos.

 

[Zvim]

Is that what free agency means?

It is the ultimate form of free agency, it gives the players ultimate choice, it allows the players to get the absolute maximum they are worth. Once you open the door to FA the AFLPA will just keep pushing and pushing. We have trade week, pre-season draft and all the changes to the draft and trading rules because every new head of the AFLPA wants to earn his ridiculous pay and the only way he can do that is to get more for the players.

They don't need half the crap they have asked for recently but are just pushing because there is nothing left to ask for.

FA wont stop at this bogus 10 year rule, it is just the foot in the door they need to just ramp it up year after year. It will drop frop 10 to 8 to eventually players can move whenever they like and for the highest bidder.

It is a game of Chess and the bogus 10 year FA option which looks soft and doesn't look like it would be any threat is the pawn the AFLPA is moving to entice everyone to take which will ultimately result in checkmate.

Once FA is in the door it will be open and it will be much easier to bit by bit get it to where they want it.

Does there have to be no salary cap?

Salary Cap is THE sticking point in AFL vs AFLPA, it is the only form of real restraint of trade because it places artificial caps and prevents players from earning the absolute maximum they could earn without it.

Players can't really challenge the draft system via the Trade Practices Act, restraint of trade has little to do with freedom of choice, especially when you collectively bargain your choice options away.

How often has a player wanted to go to club X and that club be prepared to offer a fair and reasonable offer for that player and that player has not been traded? Very rarely I would imagine.

Collingwood didn't offer what I would consider market value for Ball, he will be taken with a signifcantly better pick than the value of that which Collingwood offered. Ball didn't ask for mediation, he was unsure what he really wanted to do until after the trade week, that is his problem, not something wrong with the system.

I'm not sure that there are many advocates for unfettered free agency, just a form of free agency where you can top up your list at any time with players not listed.

The problem with that is it undermines the draft, the whole principal of the draft and salary cap, etc is to create an environment where there is an even competition which generates more quality games which draws in more broadcasting revenue.

FA will undermine the system, a system which at this point in time functions relatively well. Why do we want to follow the things other leagues have done which have turned their leagues into garbage?

Clubs get very limited access to exceptional players, you don't want to create a system where you have limited access AND it is easy for these players to leave and not get compensated. FA just wont work in a fair manner with a draft and salary cap system.

They would probably have to be former AFL listed players or rookies or have a minimum age so that players set to go in next year's draft are not touched, but if your ruckman all go down, you should be able to use a VFL top up player for the rest of the year as everybody has previously had access to and passed on that player anyway.

I disagree. Lists are too shallow. They were cut back far too much during the nationalisation largely from when we used to field senior and reserve sides. Lists should be around the 60 mark. At present you don't have room to have your senior side, depth players and development players. You can not have all three and struggle to do 2 well. In the end you have to make sacrifices.

AFL should stop skimming money from clubs and return more to clubs to allow for a deeper list so even a team in the top 4 for a long period of time has enough list depth to have sufficient room for development players. With later picks it is a lot more hit or miss.

FA has always been the crusade by the fat cat clubs who are incompetent at player development and list management despite near limitless resources. They can't build a successful side so they want to steal players from elsewhere. This was the very reason the 10 year rule was introduced in the 70s but we were the club that truely exploited and showed a glimpse of what like football will be like under a FA system. Artificial success.

The NRL maintains its salary cap but has no draft and they have had 8 different premiers in the last 9 years. While it's true that the AFL have had 9 different premiers in the last 12 years, it still shows that removing the draft does not have to necessarily affect competition equality if done right.

NRL is a joke, anyone putting them up as a role model is kidding themselves. Why do you think AFL is driving a stake through their heart? Had not the Storm been excpetional in terms of their ability to recruit and develop, their side would have been gutted. I got interested in the Storm and there had been some exciting players develop, the kind you can get kids excited about following. Then they just piss off willy nilly to other clubs. No wonder they get nobody show up to games. How can you really support the revolving door that is their player system?

What a farce that you have players playing during the season where they know they are going to move to the opposition side the following year, we have massive dramas about tanking, imagine the debacle of a side losing to an opposition where a player that is moving clubs seems to have made some dubious errors, you wouldn't hear the end of it in the AFL.

Even maintaining the salary cap and draft, free agency is a good idea. I realise that the problem comes in when you have a wanted player picking who they want to join and bypassing the intention of the draft. You might build a side capable of winning a flag or two but it will disband fairly quickly as club loyalty will become an outdated concept.

It adds nothing to the competition and just threatens to make it worse. If you want player X or Y or Z you can recruit them yourself or trade for them if they want to come to your club.

 

[S for September]

I dont think the clubs would die as quick as your think. There might actually be more passion for the game and club this way, as peoples expectations for their club wouldn't be to win a flag necessarily.

It would be ok in Vic, but interstate clubs with no real football history (brisbane/sydney) would probably struggle.

 

[Undecide]

how would the future really look if their was no salary cap, no draft and the cheque book dominated our sport?

I think it would be something like this:

Six or seven victorian clubs could not compete and would most likely drop down to the vfl.

Brisbane, gold coast, sydney and west sydney would become extinct.

Port adelaide as an afl entity would become extinct.


West coast and adelaide would become chelsea and man u, collingwood would become everton, essendon would become west ham, carlton, fremantle and possibly hawthorn would become bromich west albion, middlesborough and sunderland.

The game would lose millions of supporters and the competition would become a joke.

Never mention everton in the same sentance as collingwood again

 

[juddsentant517]

sorry, this may seem like a really stupid question.
But if they do put free agency in the AFL, will there still be a pre season draft?
cheers

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Collingwood would be Liverpool & Essendon would be Arsenal.

You would have 4 dominant clubs. WCE, Crows, Dons & Pies.

Unfettered free agency would benefit my club, but I don't want it as it's not good for a national competition.

Some form of free agency will come with the PSD draft a thing of the past. In what form, I have no idea. Salary caps & ND are crucial to AFL.

Would be WCE, Crows, Pies..... then after that it drops off.

Dons certainly wouldn't be "one of the big boys" - only had $35m in rev with about a $2m profit last year compared to Hawthorns $40m & $2m profit this year. Not anywhere close to WCE/Crows/Pies $50-60m revenue.

 

[swiftdog]

Wouldn't work obviously but if for some obscure reason it didn't come in I'd think there would be some sort of "youth academy" system brung in by teams. I don't see how no salary cap and unfettered free agency could realistically intertwine with a draft, in the end players will go where they want to. In this case with the youth academy's clubs like Freo and Port (WCE and Crows wouldn't really need the extra help) could try and lure the best prospects from their states at a young age and instill club culture into them early. and convince them to stay.

As QLD and NSW have little footballers coming from those areas I could see Brisbane and Sydney struggling. Using a youth academy system I could see clubs like Geelong with their own geographical area as well as other Vic teams with strong followings like Carlton, Hawthorn and possibly Richmond being at least competitive. I doubt there would be many died-in-the-wool Carlton supporters growing up that would choose to play for Essendon or Collingwood, no matter the amount, there will always be exceptions. The other Vic clubs could kiss themselves goodbye.

 

[willingnable]

Should we have free agency but still keep a cap in place - where clubs that are a good organisation excell, or should we have a system where clubs who have poor mangement and organisation skills continue to get a leg because they keep failing.

 

[Godzke]

lol @ the west ham comparison

Essendon would easily be part of the top tier group in financial terms as well as any other. Quoting and comparing revenue figures over the last few years when we've been shite and Hawthorn have won a premiership is stupid. Of course that spikes your revenue stream.

free agency along with no salary cap restrictions would see the kangas, port and saints crumble pretty quickly with the demons, freo and wbd hanging on for dear life.

 

[JeffDunne]

Unfettered free agency would lead to private ownership.

Membershp based clubs would die.

There would be franchises owned still by state leagues but for the most part clubs would end up in the hands of private ownership.

In this scenario large memberships might actually lead to a long painful death. The clubs put under the most financial pressure first would be the first to fall into private hands. A Richard Pratt type figure could very quickly price teams reliant on members out of the market.

Common sense and the law of averages suggests the bigger the club the more likely a Pratt will exist and the more attractive a target they would be. But the larger the club the more difficult it would be to aquire them.

 

[DaVe86]

The salary cap is a good thing for football.

But with a salary cap, I see no problems with a free agency arrangement in principle. Hard to see a club become a super power if they are limited to what they can spend.

The worry is the ability to cheat the cap. That's something the AFL should be monitoring closely anyway.

 

[JeffDunne]

sorry, this may seem like a really stupid question.
But if they do put free agency in the AFL, will there still be a pre season draft?
cheers

There is no set formula for 'free agency'.

It's an expression to describe the ability of players to negotiate directly with clubs. People assume that means without impediments, but free agency can still exist with impediments that help protect teams and the competition from canabilising itself.

THe cap is the obvious impediment but like the NFL we could still have mechanisms like waivers (which is like a perpetual preseason draft for players cut under contract) and franchise tags.

Basically free agency can take whatever form we deem best to suit the AFL's goals re: equalisation.

 

[JeffDunne]

The worry is the ability to cheat the cap. That's something the AFL should be monitoring closely anyway.

Unfortunately the AFL is an organistion that doesn't know the meaning of the term 'sporting integrity', so even the application of rules is subjective based on their expressed goal of maximising revenue.

Until that issue is address, we'll never have a cap or any other rule that does what it's intended to do.

 

[Dirrrty South]

sorry, this may seem like a really stupid question.
But if they do put free agency in the AFL, will there still be a pre season draft?
cheers

not a stupid question at all. I follow most the major US sports. They all have free agency and all still have drafts. I think the model to follow is the NBA model. The NBA have a rookie salary cap and cap rookie players contracts at 3-4 years. They also have maximum contract lengths of 7 years after the rookie contracts are finished. The NBA allso not only has a salary cap in place, but also a luxury tax, where for every dollar you spend on player salaries over the cap threshold, you pay a dollar back to the league which gets distributed over to all clubs. ie if the Lakers were say, $20 million over the cap, then the would pay that same amount back to the league. There also 2 catagories of free agents in the NBA, restricted and unrestriced. If you are and un-restricted free agent, you can sign wherever you like, however restricted free agents may have offers by other clubs matched by their own teams, in which case they may have to stay with their current club. Also a players current team can offer them more money under the salary scale then opposing teams. Also, all this is done in the offseason, and any teams courting players still under contract can be fined.
I am a fan of free agency, if the rest of us can choose where we want to work, why shouldn't AFL players? I do not like the NRL's version where a player can sign with another club halfway through a season. Case in point, Israel Folou signing in round 3 to play for Brisbane the following season. How could you trust the guy on the field when he's playing against his soon to be new teammates?

 

[Bay Pie]

Would be WCE, Crows, Pies..... then after that it drops off.

Dons certainly wouldn't be "one of the big boys" - only had $35m in rev with about a $2m profit last year compared to Hawthorns $40m & $2m profit this year. Not anywhere close to WCE/Crows/Pies $50-60m revenue.

I stand corrected.

not a stupid question at all. I follow most the major US sports. They all have free agency and all still have drafts. I think the model to follow is the NBA model. The NBA have a rookie salary cap and cap rookie players contracts at 3-4 years. They also have maximum contract lengths of 7 years after the rookie contracts are finished. The NBA allso not only has a salary cap in place, but also a luxury tax, where for every dollar you spend on player salaries over the cap threshold, you pay a dollar back to the league which gets distributed over to all clubs. ie if the Lakers were say, $20 million over the cap, then the would pay that same amount back to the league. There also 2 catagories of free agents in the NBA, restricted and unrestriced. If you are and un-restricted free agent, you can sign wherever you like, however restricted free agents may have offers by other clubs matched by their own teams, in which case they may have to stay with their current club. Also a players current team can offer them more money under the salary scale then opposing teams. Also, all this is done in the offseason, and any teams courting players still under contract can be fined.
I am a fan of free agency, if the rest of us can choose where we want to work, why shouldn't AFL players? I do not like the NRL's version where a player can sign with another club halfway through a season. Case in point, Israel Folou signing in round 3 to play for Brisbane the following season. How could you trust the guy on the field when he's playing against his soon to be new teammates?

But if you have a look at NBA history, and I'm not complaining being a Lakers supporter, the Lakers & Celtics have won 30+ championships from a possible 60 odd. Not what the AFL is looking for.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Agree.

The unofficial advantage wealthier clubs have now would be enshrined. Carlton could stop having to pass their paper bags under their table and make it official.

Well said Matt - yeah, it would be a retrograde and potentially very destructive step.

Hopefully this particular Pandora's Box is never opened...