Coach UNFINISHED BUSINESS

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I suppose I kind of get where Ross is coming from. He's basically taking the pressure off initially by writing off the results.

Ross doesn't care if we don't play finals in the first year, he's not trying to make it to the GF, he's looking for which players he can use and who he needs to bring in - and then start planning an assault.

He's calm because this is truly a year of exploration for him, not expectation.
It's annoying for us because honestly, right now, with the absence of a really immovable top 6, anyone could probably pinch a flag with a bit of luck - it's up for grabs and we're fiddling with ourselves.

But for him, he's building something, and that's why we brought him in. We have to trust the process and let this year go - I don't mean be uncompetitive or content with anything. He's clearly setting standards and wanted buy in and wanted players playing a specific way, and he's not going to compromise that, but the results ARE only feedback for him this year, which is why he's so calm and looking for the positives after every loss, looking for the faults in all the victories.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Create more separation?

By scoring more?

Usually by kicking goals instead of points?

Hmmmm…


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Yeah, I just meant having a high scoring game plan where you're 50 - 60 pts up at half time and even if your defence is a bit looser, you can usually hold out and win the game, rather than a game where you're so focused on stopping the oppo that you don't get many goals and leave yourself open to being overtaken by a sudden change in gear from the opposition.

But yes, obviously, if Schneider and Milne had taken their chances, we'd have broken our drought in 09.
 

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By the way, I'm a bit thick: Can someone explain what RTB really means when he says, as he has repeatedly, that "this group are so coachable"? What's he implying here, that they do everything he asks?

The way he says it, I'm not entirely sure if it's supposed to be positive or not.
 
Elephant in the room - game style.

Are we currently just a defensive team that relies on stopping other teams to score / flooding / setting up defensively and not attacking. Which is fine if you get the wins but is there a need to be able to change up and have different approaches. Other teams have adapted.

Yep we are short on class in the middle but we have some class coming through with Owens, Windhager, Wanganeen Milera etc. Having our captain play injured and relying on Couch in the middle is not enough we need more in the middle.

Port, Collingwood, Geelong, Melbourne to a lesser degree all play attacking footy all are at the top or thereabouts.

I get the need for a defensive style but we need options.

Need a key back, class in the middle and support for Marshal in the ruck
 
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austinnn said:
By the way, I'm a bit thick: Can someone explain what RTB really means when he says, as he has repeatedly, that "this group are so coachable"? What's he implying here, that they do everything he asks?

The way he says it, I'm not entirely sure if it's supposed to be positive or not.
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I think Lyon is pulling the wool over our eyes with a bit of sweet talk this year. He knows he has problems across the ground, and our weaknesses are getting exposed. I would prefer he said it a bit more straight down the line at pressers, but when you're sitting on a very big bag of money, who gives a hoot.
 
austinnn said:
By the way, I'm a bit thick: Can someone explain what RTB really means when he says, as he has repeatedly, that "this group are so coachable"? What's he implying here, that they do everything he asks?

The way he says it, I'm not entirely sure if it's supposed to be positive or not.
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Not sure it’s a compliment.
They do everything he asks, but don’t have the on field nous to change things up mid-game when things aren’t working. That’s on the leaders.

Do you think Cotchin would just follow the coach blindly if things were not working during the game? I think he’d take things into his own hands for a while.
 
"Group is so coachable"

Positive: They understand and carry out instructions quickly, without the need for repetition.

Negative: They don't question/challenge anything I say. They don't look for weaknesses or alternatives.

Rekon a lot could be taken out of the preseason 'joke' Ross made about Steele rating himself 8/10 and Ross saying that he liked his captain to be 10/10...
 
Diehard Saint said:
Not sure it’s a compliment.
They do everything he asks, but don’t have the on field nous to change things up mid-game when things aren’t working. That’s on the leaders.

Do you think Cotchin would just follow the coach blindly if things were not working during the game? I think he’d take things into his own hands for a while.
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Cotchin is capable of that though. We don’t have any midfielders that can change the game when needed. I think we were lucky that it started raining last night because the Tigers were running rings around us which has been a common theme in our losses.
 
ROUND 14 - POST GAME
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    • Anyone think that it woudl be good to have Andrew McQualter as part of the coaching team at St Kilda?
     
    Verdun said:
    Anyone think that it woudl be good to have Andrew McQualter as part of the coaching team at St Kilda?
    Click to expand...
    RTB tried to get him. He turned him down.
     
    austinnn said:
    I suppose I kind of get where Ross is coming from. He's basically taking the pressure off initially by writing off the results.

    Ross doesn't care if we don't play finals in the first year, he's not trying to make it to the GF, he's looking for which players he can use and who he needs to bring in - and then start planning an assault.

    He's calm because this is truly a year of exploration for him, not expectation.
    It's annoying for us because honestly, right now, with the absence of a really immovable top 6, anyone could probably pinch a flag with a bit of luck - it's up for grabs and we're fiddling with ourselves.

    But for him, he's building something, and that's why we brought him in. We have to trust the process and let this year go - I don't mean be uncompetitive or content with anything. He's clearly setting standards and wanted buy in and wanted players playing a specific way, and he's not going to compromise that, but the results ARE only feedback for him this year, which is why he's so calm and looking for the positives after every loss, looking for the faults in all the victories.
    Click to expand...
    I agree with this. I think it’s one of the reasons he’s been given four years. As much as we’d all like the sugar hit of instant finals we need to be able to do more than that. Have a look at 2020, we won a final then went straight back to mid table. Ross is aiming for us to be a better side in three years than we are now.
     

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    Verdun said:
    Elephant in the room - game style.

    Are we currently just a defensive team that relies on stopping other teams to score / flooding / setting up defensively and not attacking. Which is fine if you get the wins but is there a need to be able to change up and have different approaches. Other teams have adapted.

    Yep we are short on class in the middle but we have some class coming through with Owens, Windhager, Wanganeen Milera etc. Having our captain play injured and relying on Couch in the middle is not enough we need more in the middle.

    Port, Collingwood, Geelong, Melbourne to a lesser degree all play attacking footy all are at the top or thereabouts.

    I get the need for a defensive style but we need options.

    Need a key back, class in the middle and support for Marshal in the ruck
    Click to expand...
    Early in the season I think we had a good balance. Our defensive pressure was good but we also turned defence into attack quickly, we don’t seem to be taking the game on in the same way at the moment.
    I don’t think it’s been helped by the midfield not being at the top of its game. We don’t seem to get the clean break away clearances that other teams seem to get. I’m not sure how we change that with the current line up. The only one in the reserves who could come in would be Bytel but he’s more of the same. And as good as Marshall can be we‘re probably seeing why they are interested in DeKoning.
     
    austinnn said:
    I suppose I kind of get where Ross is coming from. He's basically taking the pressure off initially by writing off the results.

    Ross doesn't care if we don't play finals in the first year, he's not trying to make it to the GF, he's looking for which players he can use and who he needs to bring in - and then start planning an assault.

    He's calm because this is truly a year of exploration for him, not expectation.
    It's annoying for us because honestly, right now, with the absence of a really immovable top 6, anyone could probably pinch a flag with a bit of luck - it's up for grabs and we're fiddling with ourselves.

    But for him, he's building something, and that's why we brought him in. We have to trust the process and let this year go - I don't mean be uncompetitive or content with anything. He's clearly setting standards and wanted buy in and wanted players playing a specific way, and he's not going to compromise that, but the results ARE only feedback for him this year, which is why he's so calm and looking for the positives after every loss, looking for the faults in all the victories.
    Click to expand...
    I also think he's flippant to the media because he's protecting the players who are probably fragile. We see them shit the bed all the time so I can only imagine what it's like day to day.
     
    Verdun said:
    Elephant in the room - game style.

    Are we currently just a defensive team that relies on stopping other teams to score / flooding / setting up defensively and not attacking. Which is fine if you get the wins but is there a need to be able to change up and have different approaches. Other teams have adapted.

    Yep we are short on class in the middle but we have some class coming through with Owens, Windhager, Wanganeen Milera etc. Having our captain play injured and relying on Couch in the middle is not enough we need more in the middle.

    Port, Collingwood, Geelong, Melbourne to a lesser degree all play attacking footy all are at the top or thereabouts.

    I get the need for a defensive style but we need options.

    Need a key back, class in the middle and support for Marshal in the ruck
    Click to expand...
    Usually when rebuilding a group the defense is the first part of the equation. Need to get that right and build from there. Question is is Lyon doing this, or is this what we will see from us long term.
     
    "Our spirit and our efforts stands us in good stead". "I thought we weren't disappointing tonight". "I think if you talk about effort, I can't question it. Execution? Well, that's a different issue".

    I think Ross feels like the coaching group has a firm grasp of what opposing sides will bring in to the game in terms of system and setup, and he's pretty confident that they are asking the team to play in a way that allows us to disrupt their game and get it on to our terms. I'm pretty sure he has accepted that the current list just isn't able to execute what he wants to a winning level.

    "It's very rare that we turnover 4 goals in our D50. I can picture 2 or 3 handballs". I think Howard will be getting a roast.

    "There's certainly no knee issue. He's had a tough year with general soreness and a bit of an achilles issue". On Jack Steele.
     
    CursingFijian said:
    "Our spirit and our efforts stands us in good stead". "I thought we weren't disappointing tonight". "I think if you talk about effort, I can't question it. Execution? Well, that's a different issue".

    I think Ross feels like the coaching group has a firm grasp of what opposing sides will bring in to the game in terms of system and setup, and he's pretty confident that they are asking the team to play in a way that allows us to disrupt their game and get it on to our terms. I'm pretty sure he has accepted that the current list just isn't able to execute what he wants to a winning level.

    "It's very rare that we turnover 4 goals in our D50. I can picture 2 or 3 handballs". I think Howard will be getting a roast.

    "There's certainly no knee issue. He's had a tough year with general soreness and a bit of an achilles issue". On Jack Steele.
    Click to expand...


    I think he's being a bit of a fibber with Steele. Looks sore.

    I found the "very coachable" thing interesting too. Richmond have so many who are able to assert themselves on the contest. Guys like Dusty and Bolton make the decision to go and will step outside team structures to make something special happen. We still have that nice boy beta vibe where they are too selfless.
     
    gringo2011 said:
    I think he's being a bit of a fibber with Steele. Looks sore.

    I found the "very coachable" thing interesting too. Richmond have so many who are able to assert themselves on the contest. Guys like Dusty and Bolton make the decision to go and will step outside team structures to make something special happen. We still have that nice boy beta vibe where they are too selfless.
    Click to expand...
    Very coachable = can’t think for themselves?
     
    Mowman said:
    Very coachable = can’t think for themselves?
    Click to expand...
    That's how I read it.

    No leadership on field to direct when things get tough. Don't know what winning looks like.
     
    Mowman said:
    Very coachable = can’t think for themselves?
    Click to expand...


    Yep, no initiative and they lack a bit of assertiveness. That is probably partly due to a lack of success, coaches who drummed it out of them and chasing beta boys.

    A really strong BDE leader could probably help push their heads a bit higher and it looked like angry Max King could have a bit more fight in the dog than I imagined. Perhaps if a few more of those older guys can play like that we can jump up a bit. Maybe we need to chase one of those Hodge types at the end to teach them leadership? Get another year out of Gouger Cotchin?
     
    gringo2011 said:
    Yep, no initiative and they lack a bit of assertiveness. That is probably partly due to a lack of success, coaches who drummed it out of them and chasing beta boys.

    A really strong BDE leader could probably help push their heads a bit higher and it looked like angry Max King could have a bit more fight in the dog than I imagined. Perhaps if a few more of those older guys can play like that we can jump up a bit. Maybe we need to chase one of those Hodge types at the end to teach them leadership? Get another year out of Gouger Cotchin?
    Click to expand...
    They're a bit of a soft group that's put on field at the moment. Missing Hayes, Zones, Dmac unfortunately leaves them a bit vulnerable.
     
    On AFL360 Lyon spoke about how difficult it is to get messages out to the entire player group, in the modern game. He used the Vlaustin extra as an example saying they made some changes to try and minimize the impact he was having on the game, but the Richmond defenders were much better at adapting again to our changes in game. He basically said that King, Owens, Caminiti, and Phillipou don't have sufficient footy intellengence to be able to out think and out outmaneuver opponents without coaching assistance. Probably speaks also to how Siciliy was able to get away and cut off supply to our forward line.

    Very interesting.
     
    CursingFijian said:
    On AFL360 Lyon spoke about how difficult it is to get messages out to the entire player group, in the modern game. He used the Vlaustin extra as an example saying they made some changes to try and minimize the impact he was having on the game, but the Richmond defenders were much better at adapting again to our changes in game. He basically said that King, Owens, Caminiti, and Phillipou don't have sufficient footy intellengence to be able to out think and out outmaneuver opponents without coaching assistance. Probably speaks also to how Siciliy was able to get away and cut off supply to our forward line.

    Very interesting.
    Click to expand...
    Makes complete sense. A premiership backline against babes.
     
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