Oceania Unrest in New Caledonia

[Johnny Bananas]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...edonia-caught-fire?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

In the middle of the main road in Rivière-Salée, north of Nouméa, sits a burnt-out car. After days of rioting, young men with masked faces wave a Kanak flag as vehicles pass. All around is desolation. Shops with gutted fronts, burnt buildings, debris on the pavements and roads. Gangs of young people roam the area.

The violence that erupted last week is the worst in New Caledonia since unrest involving independence activists gripped the French Pacific territory in the 1980s.

Anger over France’s plan to impose new voting rules swelled in the archipelago of 270,000 people. The plan would expand the right of French residents living in New Caledonia to vote provincial elections, which some fear would dilute the indigenous Kanak vote. Kanaks make up about 40% of the population.

I reckon there are a lot of parallels between New Caledonia and Australia. In both places, a European nation engaged in settler colonialism and a lot of human rights abuses against the indigenous people. The big difference is that Indigenous people in Australia only make up 3.8% of the population whereas in New Caledonia they make up 40%.

The other striking thing in this article is how unequal the wealth distribution is in New Caledonia. Maybe if they'd shared it out more equally, there'd be fewer people willing to riot, because they would have more to lose.

 

[campbell]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...edonia-caught-fire?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I reckon there are a lot of parallels between New Caledonia and Australia. In both places, a European nation engaged in settler colonialism and a lot of human rights abuses against the indigenous people. The big difference is that Indigenous people in Australia only make up 3.8% of the population whereas in New Caledonia they make up 40%.

The other striking thing in this article is how unequal the wealth distribution is in New Caledonia. Maybe if they'd shared it out more equally, there'd be fewer people willing to riot, because they would have more to lose.

Wealth distribution in Australia is woeful, just saying.

In Australia your culture and history is maligned, rubbished.

 

[Rob R]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...edonia-caught-fire?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other



I reckon there are a lot of parallels between New Caledonia and Australia. In both places, a European nation engaged in settler colonialism and a lot of human rights abuses against the indigenous people. The big difference is that Indigenous people in Australia only make up 3.8% of the population whereas in New Caledonia they make up 40%.

The other striking thing in this article is how unequal the wealth distribution is in New Caledonia. Maybe if they'd shared it out more equally, there'd be fewer people willing to riot, because they would have more to lose.

Not only is the proposed law change morally wrong but it is incredibly stupid of the French to increase resentment when they know Xi has people there encouraging trouble and offering bribes/support to the separatists in exchange for total control of the resources and infrastructure as part of a Sri Lankia style debt trap.

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[Johnny Bananas]

Wealth distribution in Australia is woeful, just saying.

In an objective sense I agree, but in a relative sense we're better than almost every other country in the world. Certainly better than NZ, Canada or Britain.

List of sovereign states by wealth inequality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Australia your culture and history is maligned, rubbished.

I'm sorry, genuinely.

 

[campbell]

In an objective sense I agree, but in a relative sense we're better than almost every other country in the world. Certainly better than NZ, Canada or Britain.

List of sovereign states by wealth inequality - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm sorry, genuinely.

Sadly, First Nations wealth distribution is pitiful.

and ta.

 

[barreness]

Not only is the proposed law change morally wrong but it is incredibly stupid of the French to increase resentment when they know Xi has people there encouraging trouble and offering bribes/support to the separatists in exchange for total control of the resources and infrastructure as part of a Sri Lankia style debt trap.

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China behind every corner for you. They've forgiven hundreds of billions in africa, sometimes offer zero interest, and have less control than whatever austerity the IMF will do(that's why countries will take them up on the offer)

At the height of the Sri Lankan crisis, the debt loaned from other countries made up ~40% of total, of which China made up 45%(like 5/35 billion)
https://www.erd.gov.lk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102&Itemid=308&lang=en
China, India, and Japan have all proposed to forgive some.

New Caledonia has almost zero to do with China, this is French colonialism going wrong

 

[Satan]

Will there be protests at the Paris Olympics?

 

[Rob R]

China behind every corner for you. They've forgiven hundreds of billions in africa, sometimes offer zero interest, and have less control than whatever austerity the IMF will do(that's why countries will take them up on the offer)

At the height of the Sri Lankan crisis, the debt loaned from other countries made up ~40% of total, of which China made up 45%(like 5/35 billion)
https://www.erd.gov.lk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102&Itemid=308&lang=en
China, India, and Japan have all proposed to forgive some.

New Caledonia has almost zero to do with China, this is French colonialism going wrong

Incorrect, I think China is a great nation and people. The only problem is Xi and his thugs. My first point was to blame Frances stupid and unfair law. Xi is just cashing in on a situation the French created.

Is there any chance you might ever acknowledge that Xi isn't perfect instead of just repeating Putin/Xi talking points whilst conveniently ignoring acts like forcing Sri Lanka to give up a 99 year lease after they defaulted on loans that CCP bribed pollies took at rates far above normal.

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[Satan]

What has china got to do with NC?
France still control NC Oui?

 

[faible]

What has china got to do with NC?
France still control NC Oui?

Why the French response in New Caledonia risks helping China

At least six people are dead as a result of protests in New Caledonia, after Paris approved a constitutional amendment that some fear will dilute the voting power of the Indigenous Kanak.

www.abc.net.au

 

[barreness]

Incorrect, I think China is a great nation and people. The only problem is Xi and his thugs. My first point was to blame Frances stupid and unfair law. Xi is just cashing in on a situation the French created.

Like how? where is China involved here?

It was used as a talking point for the no independence politicians and you're running with it

Is there any chance you might ever acknowledge that Xi isn't perfect instead of just repeating Putin/Xi talking points whilst conveniently ignoring acts like forcing Sri Lanka to give up a 99 year lease after they defaulted on loans that CCP bribed pollies took at rates far above normal.

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He's a long way from perfect, I'd go as far as bad. Doesn't mean they're the big boogie man, which is the current US talking point that you're parroting

Sri Lanka sold a 70% stake in a port to a Chinese state owned company to combat spiralling debt repayments, which was built with chinese money. Should China never give out loans? are we limiting the spread of capital these days. They get taken up because the IMF loans will get you kicked out of office with austerity

 

[Satan]

Why the French response in New Caledonia risks helping China

At least six people are dead as a result of protests in New Caledonia, after Paris approved a constitutional amendment that some fear will dilute the voting power of the Indigenous Kanak.

www.abc.net.au

Thanks
Aware of the law passed but unaware of china in nc . i am aware china building infrastructure in pacific . Australia and nz may have dropped the ball a few years ago

 

[barreness]

Why the French response in New Caledonia risks helping China

At least six people are dead as a result of protests in New Caledonia, after Paris approved a constitutional amendment that some fear will dilute the voting power of the Indigenous Kanak.

www.abc.net.au

The former Papua New Guinea government adviser on international security deals added that decolonisation in the Pacific was expected.

This also risks helping China, Australian National University Pacific analyst Graeme Smith said, as the country could weaponise the colonial legacy of Western nations in the Pacific.

"It will play very well because China has been discovering some of the colonial history of the Pacific," he said.

lol, hot takes

 

[faible]

The former Papua New Guinea government adviser on international security deals added that decolonisation in the Pacific was expected.

This also risks helping China, Australian National University Pacific analyst Graeme Smith said, as the country could weaponise the colonial legacy of Western nations in the Pacific.

"It will play very well because China has been discovering some of the colonial history of the Pacific," he said.

lol, hot takes

What's your point here?

There's little doubt China is trying to gain influence in the region. Whether you think that is good, bad, or neutral is up to you.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Decolonisation almost certainly means greater influence of China in New Caledonia than previously. But I'd argue that shouldn't be a barrier to decolonisation, and the more France resists it, the more likely an independent Kanaky is to rush into China's embrace.

 

[barreness]

What's your point here?

There's little doubt China is trying to gain influence in the region. Whether you think that is good, bad, or neutral is up to you.

It's a talking point to slide the topic away from(and somewhat justify) France doing colonialism and denying the original inhabitants political autonomy

Of course china have influence, they're the biggest economy in the world, the pacific is their backyard, and nickel is a key component in their manufacturing industry. Have they done anything bad here? nope, not a shred of evidence but they'll splatter it on the headlines

 

[faible]

It's a talking point to slide the topic away from(and somewhat justify) France doing colonialism and denying the original inhabitants political autonomy

Of course china have influence, they're the biggest economy in the world, the pacific is their backyard, and nickel is a key component in their manufacturing industry. Have they done anything bad here? nope, not a shred of evidence but they'll splatter it on the headlines

Very little of the article is about China, it's all about the French history and decisions, and why they might be making those decisions.

 

[barreness]

Very little of the article is about China, it's all about the French history and decisions, and why they might be making those decisions.

That's exactly the point. There's nothing about china to report here but it's in the headline, and in this thread Rob R is immediately going to debt trap/evil Xi/Sri Lanka

Sorry, probably coming of as cranky here, I'm not at you

It will play very well because China has been discovering some of the colonial history of the Pacific
I can't take this statement seriously

 

[faible]

That's exactly the point. There's nothing about china to report here but it's in the headline, and in this thread Rob R is immediately going to debt trap/evil Xi/Sri Lanka

Sorry, probably coming of as cranky here, I'm not at you

It will play very well because China has been discovering some of the colonial history of the Pacific
I can't take this statement seriously

If the French are trying to step-up their presence in the Pacific as part of a US / AU / France / <other> coalition in response to China's attempts to gain more influence in the region, then it would be relevant I'd have thought?

 

[barreness]

If the French are trying to step-up their presence in the Pacific as part of a US / AU / France / <other> coalition in response to China's attempts to gain more influence in the region, then it would be relevant I'd have thought?

It's not a step up in presence. It's a French colony that has repeatedly been denied independence and is making it easier for that to happen, hence the riots

 

[faible]

It's not a step up in presence. It's a French colony that has repeatedly been denied independence and is making it easier for that to happen, hence the riots

A colony France seems to have more recently gained interest in reasserting control over.

 

[barreness]

A colony France seems to have more recently gained interest in reasserting control over.

They have never lost control since the 1800's, the recent independence vote was a little too close for comfort is all that happened

 

[faible]

They have never lost control since the 1800's, the recent independence vote was a little too close for comfort is all that happened

I feel like you're being unnecessary pedantic about the word used, rather than the overall point, which you seem to fundamentally agree with.

 

[Rob R]

Decolonisation almost certainly means greater influence of China in New Caledonia than previously. But I'd argue that shouldn't be a barrier to decolonisation, and the more France resists it, the more likely an independent Kanaky is to rush into China's embrace.

Decolonisation should be supported by all powers in the region with no strings attached.

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[Rob R]

That's exactly the point. There's nothing about china to report here but it's in the headline, and in this thread Rob R is immediately going to debt trap/evil Xi/Sri Lanka

Sorry, probably coming of as cranky here, I'm not at you

It will play very well because China has been discovering some of the colonial history of the Pacific
I can't take this statement seriously

No I immediately went to France at fault and Xi would exploit. France can and should fix this easily. Remove their proposed law change, have another free vote and provide economic support regardless of outcome which should help an independent new Caledonia be more resilient to exploitation by any party.

Thankyou for noting that I am expressing concern about Xi not China. Xi in no way reflects China or the Chinese people and they should not get any blame for his crimes most of which are against the Chinese themselves.


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