VAFA General Discussion

[bedford]

FWIW new vafa president creating a big footy account and the Herald Sun doing a write up on Div1-Div4 recruits, what other nuggets does 2024 have in store? Bedford as the new mod?

Happy to accept fwiw

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Is it finally time for some optimism? Just two cases in the last 24 hours. Apparently we now have less than 190 people with CV-19 in a state of 6 million people and far more people have recovered than are now being treated. Some country areas have had zero cases or the handful they have had have now fully recovered. Not saying we just throw open the gates and go back to the way things were but have we almost reached a tipping point where the economic and mental health impact is now almost worse the substantive disease

Heard today that AFL Gippsland genuinely think they can start in late May. Maybe not the major leagues but the minors as they are almost entirely made up of locals and the impact to country towns not having local sport is substantial, especially on the back of the bushfires. I think late May that is a real stretch but they want to provide some hope and I applaud their optimism.

I know there are plenty of arguments against and I respect those but maybe it is time to at least start having the conversation about when rather than if.

Well said , it will be July

My guess (and hope) is that every comp plays Round 1 on July 4.

 

[bedford]

My guess (and hope) is that every comp plays Round 1 on July 4.

A bit later than that

 

[HedgeFund]

Of course they do and the massive networks.

No private school pays money to their old boys Sports clubs. The old grammarians/collegians association might, but the question was about direct money going to a VAFA club from a school (which might dry up).

Simply doesn’t happen.

 

[Max Leader]

Perhaps not entirely reliant, but I think you might find St Kevies helped out with the development at the 'King'. Or at least a trust associated with the school did. And I think those involved with the better connected schools benefit from the association jobs wise.

Flanker28 ?

Imagine having great training facilities at Tooronga Village at not letting their Old Boys team training there. Helpful school? I think not.

 

[Jimmyjack]

How many of the school boys clubs would be reliant on funds from the school to operate? All private schools, particularly those reliant on international students could see their revenue topple and will be doing well to keep hold of teaching staff and maintain facilities so the extra cash thrown towards the old boys football club will be an extremely low priority.

Anyone who thinks that affiliated school are a cash cow for old boy clubs has never been involved at an old boy football club. In some cases the relationship is openly hostile. Many barely tolerate each other while others are pretty good.

In the case of my club the relationship between club and school has always been good but we get zero financial assistance. Being from the less prestigious ACC cohort I doubt they would have the capacity to provide that anyway.

Those familiar with De La Salle will know that there is not much open space on the school grounds and no capacity to use it for playing or training purposes. Occasionally we have used the gym or get access to other facilities for meetings etc but our home ground and others we use are entirely owned and maintained by the council. Only impact on us will be if kids coming through the school who might have ordinarily played U19s this year decide to give it away.

 

[AM]

Imagine having great training facilities at Tooronga Village at not letting their Old Boys team training there. Helpful school? I think not.

By and large private schools have always kept their sporting facilities for their paying students. Seems quite reasonable to me.

The state-of-the-art rooms at Glen Iris, contributed to in a major way by folk associated with the school, are superior to those at Tooronga btw.

Think you’ll find folk associated with the school have also played a significant role in sponsored ship and finding jobs. Which is a credit to the club.

It’s no accident that clubs with well developed and close working relationships with their private schools have been permanent fixtures in Premier for ages. You could add clubs like Caulfield and Brighton since they have developed those close relationships too. Even those private schools whose fortunes fluctuate a bit generally don’t drop lower than Prem ‘B’ before rebounding. So please don’t tell me having a strong relationship with a private school, with all the attendant recruiting benefits, doesn’t represent a clear advantage and for those who do it really well a colossal advantage.

A ‘Quarantining seems to be playing tricks with Maxie’ M

 

[Flanker28]

Perhaps not entirely reliant, but I think you might find St Kevies helped out with the development at the 'King'. Or at least a trust associated with the school did. And I think those involved with the better connected schools benefit from the association jobs wise.

Flanker28 ?

Wouldn't have the foggiest sorry mate - not involved in any of the back office of the club, just a supporter. Only thing I ever heard about funding of that build was the council covered large majority of it and they use it for council meetings & activities, but even that I only heard second hand and don't know for sure how much SKOB tipped in and if the school helped at all with SKOB's contribution.

 

[Flanker28]

By and large private schools have always kept their sporting facilities for their paying students. Seems quite reasonable to me.

The state-of-the-art rooms at Glen Iris, contributed to in a major way by folk associated with the school, are superior to those at Tooronga btw.

Think you’ll find folk associated with the school have also played a significant role in sponsored ship and finding jobs. Which is a credit to the club.

It’s no accident that clubs with well developed and close working relationships with their private schools have been permanent fixtures in Premier for ages. You could add clubs like Caulfield and Brighton since they have developed those close relationships too. Even those private schools whose fortunes fluctuate a bit generally don’t drop lower than Prem ‘B’ before rebounding. So please don’t tell me having a strong relationship with a private school, with all the attendant recruiting benefits, doesn’t represent a clear advantage and for those who do it really well a colossal advantage.

A ‘Quarantining seems to be playing tricks with Maxie’ M

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Tooronga sporting fields mainly tennis courts and aths tracks? I don't think there's a footy oval there? Have only seen it driving by.

 

[Max Leader]

By and large private schools have always kept their sporting facilities for their paying students. Seems quite reasonable to me.

The state-of-the-art rooms at Glen Iris, contributed to in a major way by folk associated with the school, are superior to those at Tooronga btw.

Think you’ll find folk associated with the school have also played a significant role in sponsored ship and finding jobs. Which is a credit to the club.

It’s no accident that clubs with well developed and close working relationships with their private schools have been permanent fixtures in Premier for ages. You could add clubs like Caulfield and Brighton since they have developed those close relationships too. Even those private schools whose fortunes fluctuate a bit generally don’t drop lower than Prem ‘B’ before rebounding. So please don’t tell me having a strong relationship with a private school, with all the attendant recruiting benefits, doesn’t represent a clear advantage and for those who do it really well a colossal advantage.

A ‘Quarantining seems to be playing tricks with Maxie’ M

You are deviating well off the original discussion re financial assistance from the private schools. Your points don't answer those questions, rather you want to change the narrative to which school networks are the best. Feel free to discuss this issue, its been done to death.

Max "Ozark Season 3 done and dusted in 2 days" Leader

 

[AM]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Tooronga sporting fields mainly tennis courts and aths tracks? I don't think there's a footy oval there? Have only seen it driving by.

I've only seen them briefly too F28. Seem to be cricket nets, athletic track, some fields with soccer type nets. The stands aren't anywhere near the standard of those at King.

 

[AM]

You are deviating well off the original discussion re financial assistance from the private schools. Your points don't answer those questions, rather you want to change the narrative to which school networks are the best. Feel free to discuss this issue, its been done to death.

Max "Ozark Season 3 done and dusted in 2 days" Leader

There's your narrow view or my broader view. Mine being the assistance private school clubs derive from being associated with their schools. Financial and other means.

Think folk associated with a school helping with an amount I've been told was of the order of $250,000 comes within the purview of financial assistance. Feel free to tell me of a district club that gets that sort of assistance.

 

[HedgeFund]

There's your narrow view or my broader view. Mine being the assistance private school clubs derive from being associated with their schools. Financial and other means.

Think folk associated with a school helping with an amount I've been told was of the order of $250,000 comes within the purview of financial assistance. Feel free to tell me of a district club that gets that sort of assistance.

Initial question related to direct money from the school. Doesn’t happen.

Financial assistance from people associated with a school is different.

APS and to a lesser extent AGS schools have alumni / school parents who do very well thank you. If little Jack or Jill choose to play football at the old school VAFA club and thus Jack/Jill’s Mum and/or Dad choose to offer financial assistance /employment opportunities, well that is a very different matter.

Short answer: schools tightening their belts won’t impact on money flow to VAFA clubs because there was no flow to start with

 

[AM]

Initial question related to direct money from the school. Doesn’t happen.

Financial assistance from people associated with a school is different.

APS and to a lesser extent AGS schools have alumni / school parents who do very well thank you. If little Jack or Jill choose to play football at the old school VAFA club and thus Jack/Jill’s Mum and/or Dad choose to offer financial assistance /employment opportunities, well that is a very different matter.

Short answer: schools tightening their belts won’t impact on money flow to VAFA clubs because there was no flow to start with

I’m not sure how your reference to Jack/Jill’s Mum and/or Dad equates to an entity established to financially assist a private school with funding and which may have financially assisted the old boys too. Something that is perfectly in order btw.

I think it’s problematic a private school has donated funds directly to an old boys outfit. However, I’m far less sure it hasn’t occurred than you. Or how you’d know it hasn’t happened directly or in kind with any certainty across the broad VAFA landscape.

 

[HedgeFund]

I’m not sure how your reference to Jack/Jill’s Mum and/or Dad equates to an entity established to financially assist a private school with funding and which may have financially assisted the old boys too. Something that is perfectly in order btw.

I think it’s problematic a private school has donated funds directly to an old boys outfit. However, I’m far less sure it hasn’t occurred than you. Or how you’d know it hasn’t happened directly or in kind with any certainty across the broad VAFA landscape.

Prove me wrong then

 

[AM]

Prove me wrong then

Think the burden of proof falls on you, Hedge. After all you are the one making the claim.

 

[HedgeFund]

Think the burden of proof falls on you, Hedge. After all you are the one making the claim.

People here are claiming VAFA clubs with private school links (old boys) receive money from the school. In response I’m saying that’s not correct, and invite those making the claims to back it up with evidence/examples.

For example:

“St Ormonds College paid the sum of $10,000 to St Ormonds Old Boys Football Club on 30/4/2019 and it’s receipted in the club bank account and provided for in the EOY financials/P&L.”

No one here has produced something to that effect. Hence - when I say it doesn’t occur, I invite those who disagree to prove me wrong.

 

[Over The Post]

Pretty high burden of proof you've set there, Hedgie.

 

[Hippster]

It is a high burdon of proof..but i agree with the Big H here. The...I just bet it happens is a little flimsy to me.
For those who have been involved with old boys clubs know it doesn’t happen.
Be good if it did.

 

[bedford]

People here are claiming VAFA clubs with private school links (old boys) receive money from the school. In response I’m saying that’s not correct, and invite those making the claims to back it up with evidence/examples.

For example:

“St Ormonds College paid the sum of $10,000 to St Ormonds Old Boys Football Club on 30/4/2019 and it’s receipted in the club bank account and provided for in the EOY financials/P&L.”

No one here has produced something to that effect. Hence - when I say it doesn’t occur, I invite those who disagree to prove me wrong.

What a lot of crap, it's not the money, it's the networks that old schools have. Keep going AM. What a pity HH , Brian etc is brown bread.

 

[Max Leader]

What a lot of crap, it's not the money, it's the networks that old schools have. Keep going AM. What a pity HH , Brian etc is brown bread.

It's more the past students than the school that create the networks.

 

[Size4]

How true , but we have Hair Hat , Brian etc to keep us entertained and up to date.

Different people see value in different things so whilst I'm not big on VAFA Social Media I know may be highly valued by others.
I'd like to hear more on what the VAFA is doing and how clubs are doing but that would probably be impossible for Nick to cover given how little information "they" allow out on this.
Any thoughts on the recent updates to clubs on the Portal?
Or the club survey?
I think the "Online Forum via our Club Portal" they are investigating will be very interesting to watch!

 

[bedford]

Different people see value in different things so whilst I'm not big on VAFA Social Media I know may be highly valued by others.
I'd like to hear more on what the VAFA is doing and how clubs are doing but that would probably be impossible for Nick to cover given how little information "they" allow out on this.
Any thoughts on the recent updates to clubs on the Portal?
Or the club survey?
I think the "Online Forum via our Club Portal" they are investigating will be very interesting to watch!

They are putting plenty of info out with guidance from AFL Vic

 

[HedgeFund]

It's more the past students than the school that create the networks.

Spot on Max.

Hence my negative answer to the original question (which posited that the SCHOOL revenues dropping might impact an old boy football club).

If those who make up the Old Boy football network suffer financially, then a club might take a hit.

 

[CARLTON2011]

I don't believe my Club gets any financial assistance from the school but does get the use of the grounds, maintenance, electricity etc without charge which obviously is a huge plus.
My concern is if the school continues to grow then availability and wear & tear on the grounds may become an issue and l tip the Old Boys/Girls will be the loser.
Don't even believe there is financial help from the Old Boys/Girls Association, we survive on Sponsors, supporters, member ships, functions, merchandise sales and player subs. The Old Boy network is not powerful like the Xavs, Scotches, Blues, Collegians etc and no idea how you make it so in the short term.
Makes our last 15 years even more remarkable.

As for playing footy this year l don't believe it will happen. AFL is talking about a decision as to when by end April. Players will need to train together for a month before games and then it's in isolation hubs. Us mere local leagues don't have a chance. Social distancing will be with us until the end of the year at best (or until a vaccine is discovered). I know its early in our season (Round 2) l can't see it happening at all in 2020.

Please keep the discussion going on BF, it helps and gives me something to look forward to when l log on to the laptop.

Keep safe everyone, play by the rules and we can be watching our Clubs playing sooner.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

I don't believe my Club gets any financial assistance from the school but does get the use of the grounds, maintenance, electricity etc without charge which obviously is a huge plus.
My concern is if the school continues to grow then availability and wear & tear on the grounds may become an issue and l tip the Old Boys/Girls will be the loser.
Don't even believe there is financial help from the Old Boys/Girls Association, we survive on Sponsors, supporters, member ships, functions, merchandise sales and player subs. The Old Boy network is not powerful like the Xavs, Scotches, Blues, Collegians etc and no idea how you make it so in the short term.
Makes our last 15 years even more remarkable.

As for playing footy this year l don't believe it will happen. AFL is talking about a decision as to when by end April. Players will need to train together for a month before games and then it's in isolation hubs. Us mere local leagues don't have a chance. Social distancing will be with us until the end of the year at best (or until a vaccine is discovered). I know its early in our season (Round 2) l can't see it happening at all in 2020.

Please keep the discussion going on BF, it helps and gives me something to look forward to when l log on to the laptop.

Keep safe everyone, play by the rules and we can be watching our Clubs playing sooner.

Let's look at this virus situation a different way. A more simplistic way.

In WA the number of active cases has dropped from 297 cases a week ago to 157 yesterday. SA currently has 89 and Victoria just over 100. On most days, the number of new cases is being dwarfed by the number of people who have fully recovered.

If we get to zero active cases and it remains that way over a specified period, it means that life can return to normal within state borders. Here in WA, we have an advantage as we cannot cross the border and it is proving to be of great benefit.

Just think, with zero active cases in your state you can have shops open again, you can return to work, you can have family get togethers again, you can go camping in the country again and you can also have adult and junior sport back again with minimal (if any) restrictions imposed.

People should be striving to ensure that their state reaches the target of ZERO active cases as quickly as possible by simply doing the right thing for a few more weeks. Grassroots sport will then be possible in a coronavirus case-free environment.

#TargetZero