Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Jezza Blair]

Collingwood are advantaged compared to StK, Melbourne, North, WBulldogs, Hawthorn and Essendon.

So are Sydney and Port.

Yet Sydney and Port fans continue to pretend they are disadvantaged. Why?

Sense of entitlement with Swannies and HUGE chip on the shoulder with Port fans.

 

[Jezza Blair]

Yep, it is also about how many times a team needs to get on a plane as well as the distance. It is about how many times a team needs to spend in hotels compared to other teams.

And? This is the AFL. Has 10 Victorian clubs and 2 in NSW QLD SA and WA. What do you want? A complete radical change of the fixturing. This is never going to change. Get over it and accept it ffs

 

[Jezza Blair]

Let it go mate. It's never going to happen anytime soon.

AFL will never risk a year with a GF with two vic clubs not being at the MCG

 

[.Shotties.]

You suddenly seem to be arguing the same thing as me - counter balances. I'm just saying that the carry on about the disadvantage of travelling every second week is counter balanced by being advantage by having teams travel to you every second week. I'm glad you've come around to seeing that.

No, you just struggle with comprehension. The balance of not having a home ground advantage for X number of games is that you have no away disadvantage for X number of games, then you add in the benefit of not leaving your state for months at a time.

Conversely you think if GWS beat the Bulldogs they should be seeded lower than the team they beat in the QF?

This is the problem with double elimination, it creates ambiguity in seeding. Theoretical speaking Sydney became the 4 seed by losing to GWS then regained the 2 seed by beating Geelong.

...Yeah, right. Well, not only is that not how any seeding system in the world works, but even if it did, it would still put Sydney as the home team in '16.

 

[Jezza Blair]

and yet, 15 of the last 17 premiers have been Victorian. You would think those numbers would indicate something was wrong.

Is there some rule where the ratio should always be the same?

 

[sr36]

Those games against other melbourne clubs are not “home games”. Conveniently ignored by non-Victorian club supporters always. This disadvantage balances out the advantage of less travel. The AFL knows this, but a victimhood complex can always play victim.

Port fans make me laugh? The academy advantages will really kick in. They'll rejoice until they realise that watching Sydney and Gold Coast win flags is about as good for them as watching Hawthorn and Geelong win them is for us.

 

[sr36]

No, you just struggle with comprehension. The balance of not having a home ground advantage for X number of games is that you have no away disadvantage for X number of games, then you add in the benefit of not leaving your state for months at a time.

So it's the extra 5 return flights from Sydney to Melbourne spread out over a 25 week season that you're carrying on about and think is an enormous disadvantage.

I hope you're appalled when your players massively disadvantage the club by flying away on holidays during their byes. Hopefully none of them ever fly interstate for any other reason during the week. That'd cripple a team.

 

[doppleganger]

We dont use seeding, we use ranking, no1 ranked team, in this years case, is Sydney.
They get a home final week 1 because they are ranked no1.
They dont get ranked no1 because its being played at the SCG.

The point is H&A rankings are used to set up week1 of finals, and that is it, they then become redundant.

Week2, Week3 and Week4 of finals are locked in pre-determined brackets.

In 2006, where Sydney went and beat WC in the QF, and then won their PF to make the GF...how could anybody still think that WC were entitled to host the GF as the "higher ranked" team?

What is the point of the QF?

Only in the mind of a Victorian will GWS assume the no1 rank should they beat Sydney in a scenario where Sydney are not yet knocked out.

What the feck does whether you are a Victorian or not have to do with your ability to understand how the current AFL finals work?

H&A rankings are redundant and not used post week 1 in current AFL finals.

 

[Jezza Blair]

Yep. Sydney still had a right to a home final in the 2016 Grand Final. 2014 may not have made a difference, though it could have, but 2016 definitely made a difference playing at the MCG instead of SCG.

Dogs played about 3 games in the whole year of 2016 you insufferable sook

 

[doppleganger]

No, you just struggle with comprehension. The balance of not having a home ground advantage for X number of games is that you have no away disadvantage for X number of games, then you add in the benefit of not leaving your state for months at a time.

So why do Sydney fans continue to pretend that Port have a disadvantage compared to Hawthorn?

Hawthorn play 11 games outside of Mebourne, Port only play 10 games outside of Adelaide.

Surely you must group Hawthorn with the teams disadvantaged by travelling?

 

[oak79]

Everytime I look in this thread it's doppleganger arguing with non-vics

No one will convince you, and you will be never convince the non-vics

So.... I don't get why you waste so much time arguing in here?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Is there some rule where the ratio should always be the same?

Was there in 07 when some of your greats cried in the media about Vics being uncompetetive?

 

[ClintEastwood]

Those games against other melbourne clubs are not “home games”. Conveniently ignored by non-Victorian club supporters always. This disadvantage balances out the advantage of less travel. The AFL knows this, but a victimhood complex can always play victim.

They may not be 'home' games, but they are games for which your team DOES NOT HAVE TO TRAVEL / sleep in hotels, etc etc.

 

[.Shotties.]

So it's the extra 5 return flights from Sydney to Melbourne spread out over a 25 week season that you're carrying on about and think is an enormous disadvantage.

Yes, I think teams staying in one state for stretches of months and not being made to play at some regional grounds which results in more travelling for other teams is an advantage in a national competition, thank you for asking.

So why do Sydney fans continue to pretend that Port have a disadvantage compared to Hawthorn?

Hawthorn play 11 games outside of Mebourne, Port only play 10 games outside of Adelaide.

Surely you must group Hawthorn with the teams disadvantaged by travelling?

Choose a team that doesn't actively sell home games to another state, please.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Everytime I look in this thread it's doppleganger arguing with non-vics

No one will convince you, and you will be never convince the non-vics

So.... I don't get why you waste so much time arguing in here?

Gotta be an AFL plant, no one has that much spare time to dedicate to 1 thread, especially now that their teams not even in it.

 

[sr36]

Yes, I think teams staying in one state for stretches of months and not being made to play at some regional grounds which results in more travelling for other teams is an advantage in a national competition, thank you for asking.

How would you weigh it against a special recruiting scheme that 14 other clubs don't get access to that has netted you your captain and 3 current All Australian players? How does that counter balance in your mind?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

How would you weigh it against a captain and 3 All Australian players being recruited under a special scheme that 14 other clubs don't get access to? How does that counter balance in your mind?

Wait, who recruited a captain and 3 AA's?

 

[doppleganger]

Yes, I think teams staying in one state for stretches of months and not being made to play at some regional grounds which results in more travelling for other teams is an advantage in a national competition, thank you for asking.

Choose a team that doesn't actively sell home games to another state, please.

Hawthorn, unlike Essendon, dont get to stay in one state for stretches of months.

Hawthorn play 10-11 games a season away from Melbourne, in games where they HAVE TO TRAVEL / sleep in hotels, etc etc.

If you were consistent in your argument, you would group Hawthorn with Port.

But you blokes aren't consistent at all.

 

[.Shotties.]

How would you weigh it against a captain and 3 All Australian players being recruited under a special scheme that 14 other clubs don't get access to? How does that counter balance in your mind?

I assume this means that you concede that lack of travel is an inherent benefit to Victorian teams and we'll move on. I'd say the academy does well to balance the fact that before it these teams had almost zero access to home-state (let alone home city) players and continually had to build their list from 90%+ interstate players.

I'd heartily welcome one for Collingwood if they went through three decades of the same. They could have an access to an equivalent zone to our Hunter Zone, or Shoalhaven? How about Maroubra? Rich, storied footballing areas. Real football factories.

 

[.Shotties.]

Hawthorn, unlike Essendon, dont get to stay in one state for stretches of months.

Because they sell home games to Tasmania. If they didn't do that, they would have had to suffer a single trip outside of Victoria in nine weeks this year.

 

[RUNVS]

Everytime I look in this thread it's doppleganger arguing with non-vics

No one will convince you, and you will be never convince the non-vics

So.... I don't get why you waste so much time arguing in here?

Yep. Doppleganger will never accept that there are even minor disadvantages to being a non-Victorian team.

 

[sr36]

I assume this means that you concede that lack of travel is an inherent benefit to Victorian teams and we'll move on. I'd say the academy does well to balance the fact that before it these teams had almost zero access to home-state (let alone home city) players and continually had to build their list from 90%+ interstate players.

I'd heartily welcome one for Collingwood if they went through three decades of the same. They could have an access to an equivalent zone to our Hunter Zone, or Shoalhaven? How about Maroubra? Rich, storied footballing areas. Real football factories.

I think 5 extra Sydney to Melbourne flights over the course of a year is an incredibly minor inconvenience with little impact on outcomes.

Whereas I think Sydney has been given a series of leg ups to ensure you're in finals. Collingwood fans know we've got it lucky. Any Sydney fan who actually thinks their club is disadvantaged rather than privileged by the AFL is off their rocker.

 

[sr36]

Because they sell home games to Tasmania. If they didn't do that, they would have had to suffer a single trip outside of Victoria in nine weeks this year.

Oh dear.

 

[.Shotties.]

I think 5 extra Sydney to Melbourne flights over the course of a year is an incredibly minor inconvenience with little impact on outcomes.

How much Sydney travels isn't the point being made though, it's the very extended periods without travel for other teams, bar those who sell games.

Whereas I think Sydney has been given a series of leg ups to ensure you're in finals. Collingwood fans know we've got it lucky. Any Sydney fan who actually thinks their club is disadvantaged rather than privileged by the AFL is off their rocker.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. If you told most teams they essentially couldn't pick players from their home state for 30 years then told them they had exclusive access recruit from the equivalent of the Hunter Valley or Wollongong, they probably wouldn't be stoked about it.

 

[doppleganger]

Because they sell home games to Tasmania. If they didn't do that, they would have had to suffer a single trip outside of Victoria in nine weeks this year.

The point is that they DO play 11 games outside of Melbourne.

Why is it hard for Sydney to play outside of Sydney 11 times and Port outside of Adelaide 10 times, but Hawthorn playing outside of Melbourne 11 times isnt hard?

If you are being consistent in your argument, travel is a disadvantage, you would group Hawthorn with Sydney and Port as a team disadvantaged compared to Essendon and Carlton.