Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[doppleganger]

Simple

• MCG Grand Final is a clear advantage.
• Less travel for Victorian based clubs
• Attached to the less travel also means players are more likely to pick a Victorian club to go to as it means less travel for them, meaning they get to be home more with their families.
• More ease of recruiting as Victorian clubs can build entire lists only using Victorian players. Not to mention top rated Victorian players are fare more likely to have a go home factor than a top rated Western Australian kid.
• Attached to above it also means when a Victorian team is really bad they are less likely to lose a lot of players like a non-Victorian club can.
• Easier for top Victorian clubs to attract free agents to extend their window
• Easier for Victorian clubs to organise 3rd party agreements for their players.
• Victorian clubs get the big games more than non-Victorian clubs. ANZAC Day, Kings Birthday, Friday Night Games in general etc

Now each one of these could be small on their own, but when you combine them it becomes a lot.

All crap.

Some Melbourne based teams have more games outside Melbourne than Port do Adelaide, and the same as Sydney do outside Sydney.

How do Hawthorn keep attracting talent? They are the Melbourne based team who travels the most. You just keep talking made up crap.

There are more SA and WA players on lists per WA and SA clubs, another made up lie.

Look at all the players wanting out of Richmond - Baker, Bolton, Rioli. Another myth that you keep parroting.

Sydney just attracted Adams, Grundy, Jordan in one off season. Port just added Ratagulea, Sweet, Soldo, Zerk-Thatcher. More made crap.

Easier for Sydney to get ambassador payments, and they have the biggest city in Aus to share between just 2 teams. When fighting 10 clubs for advertising dollars, it aint easy for a club like Melbourne or StKilda compared to Sydney or WC.

Collingwood play Essendon is a game between two vic clubs, no shit.

All you sooking is just made up crap.

Meanwhile, results show Sydney have another minor premiership, Port another top4 finish, Geelong another top4 finish.

Non-Melbourne teams dominate H&A as a result of AFL House policy.

AFL want to win over Sydney, is anybody surprised that the Swans have made finals 12 of last 14 seasons and played in the most GFs in the 21st century of ALL clubs?

Yet, you think the Saints, Dogs, North, Dees, Essendon are advantaged...absolutely deluded.

 

[doppleganger]

You are deliberately ignoring some key points.

Swans would not arrive in Melbourne the same day as a game, which means flying out the day before, which means sleeping in a hotel rather than their own bed. Also if the game is a night game Swans can't fly back to Sydney the same night as there is a 10pm flight curfew at Sydney Airport, which means spending another night in Melbourne in a bed that is not their own.

So that is potentially 3 days and 2 nights in Melbourne for a Friday night game, and that is one of the shorter distances a non-Victorian team has to travel.

More made up crap.

 

[Freomaniac]

Surprised a Collingwood supporter would….

Wait.... There's flights from the MCG to Docklands? LoL

 

[sr36]

Does that also apply to exaggerating to make it seem like the disadvantage is larger?

Because you have been caught out doing this on numerous occasions.

Like now, are you sure Sydney have a curfew of 10pm?

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/aviation/aviation-safety/aircraft-noise/airport-curfews/sydney/overview

This says otherwise.

It's best to just assume that the "good faith" poster has just made up every little bit of supporting argument they use.

And frankly you have to make stuff up when claiming your club is at an unfair recruiting disadvantage when the AFL's extra salary cap enabled them to poach Buddy and then when that rort finished the AFL gave them a different special recruiting rort enabling them to pick up Heeney, Mills, Blakey, Gulden and Campbell for a handful of magic beans.

 

[LoungeLizard]

It's best to just assume that the "good faith" poster has just made up every little bit of supporting argument they use.

And frankly you have to make stuff up when claiming your club is at an unfair recruiting disadvantage when the AFL's extra salary cap enabled them to poach Buddy and then when that rort finished the AFL gave them a different special recruiting rort enabling them to pick up Heeney, Mills, Blakey, Gulden and Campbell for a handful of magic beans.

He has got that much wrong in this thread, from now on I wouldn't even bother checking, just assume he is lying.

 

[demondavey]

This "go home" factor crap is just that - crap. It doesn't advantage the Victorian clubs at all because there are 10 of them.

If you're a player from W.A who is playing for a Victorian club and wants to come home there is a 50-50 chance that player will ask to be traded to West Coast, and 50-50 to Fremantle.

If you are a player from Victoria playing for the Eagles (say Chris Judd), and wants to come home, there is only 1 in 10 chance that the player will play for the Victorian club you barrack for. 1 in 10.

Just because the player is coming back to Victoria doesn't mean it advantages the Victorian team that I barrack for. There is just a tiny chance they will come to us. Jason Horne-Francis going home to S.A meant a 50-50 chance for both Adelaide and Port. If the roles were reversed North would only have a 1 in 10 chance of getting the player.

It's just more biased sooking.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The empirical evidence suggests there is no advantage whether you are Victorian or not. We know this because that's what the facts tell us. The facts say that about 40% of the teams are Non-Victorian and about 40% of the premierships won over the last 30 years are non-Victorian. There is your evidence right there.

The MCG on Grand Final day, whilst an advantage to a Victorian clubs, is greatly diluted on Grand Final day with the crowd relatively evenly split (I've been to 31 Grand Final, so I should know) and the empirical evidence over 30 years suggests that when a Vic team plays a non-Vic team on Grand Final day, the record is about 50-50.

Venues don't win premierships - players win premierships. A Victorian team doesn't just walk out to the MCG and a cosmic magical sky-fairy guides all the kicks through the big sticks without any input from the players.

Ask Melbourne Storm and they will tell you that players win premierships, not venues.

So Harley Reid would nominate St Kilda, Melbourne, North, Richmond, Essendon or the WB?

Please…. Carlton, Collingwood, hawthorn or Geelong.

 

[doppleganger]

He has got that much wrong in this thread, from now on I wouldn't even bother checking, just assume he is lying.

I think we can all agree this is not a legitimate discussion on biases in the AFL.

The only reasonable bloke is Sharkie.

The rest make up lies, continue to parrot the same lies that have been disputed, group SA clubs as road warriors despite travelling less than VIC teams.

The entire premise is laughable.

The most disadvantaged teams are small Melbourne based teams / Marvel tenants. Results back that up.

If you want to be successful, be from Sydney or Geelong.

 

[SC_Power]

This "go home" factor crap is just that - crap. It doesn't advantage the Victorian clubs at all because there are 10 of them.

If you're a player from W.A who is playing for a Victorian club and wants to come home there is a 50-50 chance that player will ask to be traded to West Coast, and 50-50 to Fremantle.

If you are a player from Victoria playing for the Eagles (say Chris Judd), and wants to come home, there is only 1 in 10 chance that the player will play for the Victorian club you barrack for. 1 in 10.

Just because the player is coming back to Victoria doesn't mean it advantages the Victorian team that I barrack for. There is just a tiny chance they will come to us. Jason Horne-Francis going home to S.A meant a 50-50 chance for both Adelaide and Port. If the roles were reversed North would only have a 1 in 10 chance of getting the player.

It's just more biased sooking.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The empirical evidence suggests there is no advantage whether you are Victorian or not. We know this because that's what the facts tell us. The facts say that about 40% of the teams are Non-Victorian and about 40% of the premierships won over the last 30 years are non-Victorian. There is your evidence right there.

The MCG on Grand Final day, whilst an advantage to a Victorian clubs, is greatly diluted on Grand Final day with the crowd relatively evenly split (I've been to 31 Grand Final, so I should know) and the empirical evidence over 30 years suggests that when a Vic team plays a non-Vic team on Grand Final day, the record is about 50-50.

Venues don't win premierships - players win premierships. A Victorian team doesn't just walk out to the MCG and a cosmic magical sky-fairy guides all the kicks through the big sticks without any input from the players.

Ask Melbourne Storm and they will tell you that players win premierships, not venues.

Yawn

You state so much of this sh*t like it’s fact.
Minimise the advantages like they are minuscule or fanciful
Reframe disadvantages in irrelevant contexts and then use your interpretation to ignore them
And then come to a position that there is no bias in this competiition.

I genuinely worry for you, in that I think you actually believe what you write.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yawn

You state so much of this sh*t like it’s fact.
Minimise the advantages like they are minuscule or fanciful
Reframe disadvantages in irrelevant contexts and then use your interpretation to ignore them
And then come to a position that there is no bias in this competiition.

I genuinely worry for you, in that I think you actually believe what you write.

Take your pick?

This goes for many posters on here.

To tell you the truth if I thought the league was as corrupt as a lot of you make it out to be, I wouldn't follow it.

I seriously think many have problems, it seems crying is what they enjoy most in life

 

[RUNVS]

Sydney just attracted Adams, Grundy, Jordan in one off season.

Not sure if you noticed but none of those players were in the best 22 of their respective clubs.

They were all fringe players at best that Melbourne and Collingwood were fine with getting rid of.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Not sure if you noticed but none of those players were in the best 22 of their respective clubs.

They were all fringe players at best that Melbourne and Collingwood were fine with getting rid of.

You just love telling porkies, don't you?

I don't know about the other 2, but Taylor Adams was in Collingwoods best 22 easily, he got injured in the SF V Melb and that is why he couldn't play the next 2 games, otherwise he would have easily been picked.

So just stop making shit up.

 

[doppleganger]

Not sure if you noticed but none of those players were in the best 22 of their respective clubs.

They were all fringe players at best that Melbourne and Collingwood were fine with getting rid of.

More lies.

 

[RUNVS]

You just love telling porkies, don't you?

I don't know about the other 2, but Taylor Adams was in Collingwoods best 22 easily, he got injured in the SF V Melb and that is why he couldn't play the next 2 games, otherwise he would have easily been picked.

So just stop making shit up.

He got pushed out of the midfield and Collingwood fans seemed to think he was largely done.

My point is that none of these players were particularly wanted by their clubs, Sydney were not attracting highly prized recruits when getting Grundy, Adams and Jordon.

 

[LoungeLizard]

He got pushed out of the midfield and Collingwood fans seemed to think he was largely done.

My point is that none of these players were particularly wanted by their clubs, Sydney were not attracting highly prized recruits when getting Grundy, Adams and Jordon.

Hahaha, now you want to double down.
He did his hammy in the SF

You are a deadset clown.

 

[Dan26]

Yawn

You state so much of this sh*t like it’s fact.
Minimise the advantages like they are minuscule or fanciful
Reframe disadvantages in irrelevant contexts and then use your interpretation to ignore them
And then come to a position that there is no bias in this competiition.

I genuinely worry for you, in that I think you actually believe what you write.

All of it is true. Why in the f** would the go home factor advantage Victorian teams more when there are TEN of them? Count them... TEN. That means a one in ten chance of a Victorian playing for Port choosing the Victorian club I support if they wanted to come back to Victoria

You lot got Horne-Francis because once he decided to go back to South Australia there was a 50-50 chance your club would get him.

A Vic club has a 10 percent chance. You could argue North and St.Kilda maybe would have been even less than 10%.

Go home factor, LOL! what a load of utter crap. Poor Port Adelaide sitting second on the ladder with JHF. You guys are so ridiculously biased that the very thing you accuse others of YOU are that thing yourself. That's the great irony.

If you are good enough you will win the premiership. Non-Vic teams make up 40% of the teams and win 40% of the premierships. We have 30 years of, you know ACTUAL EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, that proves there is no advantage or "bias", otherwise the empirical evidence would bear it out. Yes some teams have certain advantages in some respects, yet also have disadvantages.

Stop sooking, stop whingeing, stop being biased, and stop pretending you are a victim. It's pathetic.

 

[SC_Power]

All of it is true. Why in the f** would the go home factor advantage Victorian teams more when there are TEN of them? Count them... TEN. That means a one in ten chance of a Victorian playing for Port choosing the Victorian club I support if they wanted to come back to Victoria

You lot got Horne-Francis because once he decided to go back to South Australia there was a 50-50 chance your club would get him.

A Vic club has a 10 percent chance. You could argue North and St.Kilda maybe would have been even less than 10%.

Go home factor, LOL! what a load of utter crap. Poor Port Adelaide sitting second on the ladder with JHF. You guys are so ridiculously biased that the very thing you accuse others of YOU are that thing yourself. That's the great irony.

If you are good enough you will win the premiership. Non-Vic teams make up 40% of the teams and win 40% of the premierships. We have 30 years of, you know ACTUAL EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, that proves there is no advantage or "bias", otherwise the empirical evidence would bear it out. Yes some teams have certain advantages in some respects, yet also have disadvantages.

Stop sooking, stop whingeing, stop being biased, and stop pretending you are a victim. It's pathetic.

FFS do you even consider the opposite point of view at all?

Eg The chances of losing a player going home is 1-10 for your clubs, and 1-2 for ours.
Eg the chance of a player forcing a trade back to Vic is higher because there are 10 teams Vic teams to walk to the draft, and only 2 for us? So we’re at a disadvantage and have to stump up a higher price to get the trade, knowing we’re at that disadvantage?

“If you are good enough you’ll win the premiership” what a wonderful comment. You Vic’s all whinged that “West Coast were given flags, they’re a state team” and “Adelaide were gifted flags, they’re a state team” and “Sydney were given flags with COLA, take COLA and academies away”. And now all that settles down, and the VFL did their readjustment in the early to mid 2000’s, what then? What’s happened since 2007 actually? How many lower ranked vic clubs are getting to play with all the advantages of a home GF against a higher ranked non vic side, and winning? Or being favourites to win, but spanking their non vic opponents? How many times does that need to happen before you’ll even admit there might be an issue?

And you don’t even consider the fans in all your bluster about the fans. You’ve seen 31GF’s. Wow, how more entitled do you need to be? You’re part of the problem, you think you own the game and as long as you get to watch, screw everyone else,

Fine, then let’s not have the GF in Melbourne at all. That shouldn’t disadvantage Vic Clubs at all, right?
That way, maybe I can walk down the road and watch a Grand Final one day, and not cost the family 5-8k in tickets, travel, accomodation, lost wages, food and beverage. And then I could go down to my local clubrooms and celebrate with the tens of thousands of fellow supporters who also didn’t spend through the nose to get there.

The AFL executive is in Melbourne. The MRO. The tribunal. The Brownlow. The umpires come to visit your clubs far more often as umpire HQ is in Melbourne, Every other club has to plan how to engage, you just make a phone call.

The Government even overtly fund this, locking in a Friday public holiday to ensure that any thought to move the GF interstate gets the locals riled up that they’ll lose that.

The AFL has take the national game of football and made it into an embedded Victorian benefit. Why should I just accept it, or walk away from the game I love? Why is it yours to take away?


Everything you say screams “my Grand Final, our competition, stop whinging, you should be lucky you get to play”.
Stop pretending you’re not entitled, it needs to be called out, it’s embarrassing.

 

[blue harvest]

The Government even overtly fund this, locking in a Friday public holiday to ensure that any thought to move the GF interstate gets the locals riled up that they’ll lose that.

?? First time I've ever heard this take on the public holiday. Most people I know think it's ridiculous. Would be happy for it to go.

 

[TW Sherrin]

There seems to be alot of non Victorians wanting to go home. Some teams seem to be lucky almost every year.

 

[black is White]

Wait.... There's flights from the MCG to Docklands? LoL

Every pies fan would rather play interstate than at the docklands. I'd rather play port in Adelaide than them at the docklands for example. Pies have also played Sydney 6 times out of 26 games in Melbourne.

 

[SuperSub17]

7 fewer trips on average?

Citation please.

RUNVS you still haven’t answered the question.

I have now asked ten times.

Do you consider this engaging in good faith?

 

[doppleganger]

Every pies fan would rather play interstate than at the docklands. I'd rather play port in Adelaide than them at the docklands for example. Pies have also played Sydney 6 times out of 26 games in Melbourne.

Pies are trying to shift one of our Marvel "home" games to the Gold Coast.

If travel was really that much of an impost it wouldnt be a consideration.

 

[doppleganger]

RUNVS you still haven’t answered the question.

I have now asked ten times.

Do you consider this engaging in good faith?

The bloke supports the most looked after team in the league in Sydney, and makes up lies to create a narrative that the poor Swans are hard done by.

Good faith, pigs arse.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Pies are trying to shift one of our Marvel "home" games to the Gold Coast.

If travel was really that much of an impost it wouldnt be a consideration.

If the AFL allow the pies to do that it would be insanity on their behalf.
They have invested multi millions into Gold Coast. For them to allow a Victorian club to play a home game their every year and grow their brand is ludicrous and the Gold Coast suns should put up a big red flag.
We need Gold Coast supporters to grow their not Collingwood supporters.
Smart initiative by the Pies but it must be stamped on by the AFL with a massive NO CHANCE!

 

[doppleganger]

If the AFL allow the pies to do that it would be insanity on their behalf.
They have invested multi millions into Gold Coast. For them to allow a Victorian club to play a home game their every year and grow their brand is ludicrous and the Gold Coast suns should put up a big red flag.
We need Gold Coast supporters to grow their not Collingwood supporters.
Smart initiative by the Pies but it must be stamped on by the AFL with a massive NO CHANCE!

Agree Sharkie.

It is a nonsense that Gold Coast play in NT.

But Pies need to do what is best for Collingwood, travelling to Gold Coast over a game at Marvel is better for Collingwood.

 

[HotelBastardos]

All crap.

Some Melbourne based teams have more games outside Melbourne than Port do Adelaide, and the same as Sydney do outside Sydney.

How do Hawthorn keep attracting talent? They are the Melbourne based team who travels the most. You just keep talking made up crap.

There are more SA and WA players on lists per WA and SA clubs, another made up lie.

Look at all the players wanting out of Richmond - Baker, Bolton, Rioli. Another myth that you keep parroting.

Sydney just attracted Adams, Grundy, Jordan in one off season. Port just added Ratagulea, Sweet, Soldo, Zerk-Thatcher. More made crap.

Easier for Sydney to get ambassador payments, and they have the biggest city in Aus to share between just 2 teams. When fighting 10 clubs for advertising dollars, it aint easy for a club like Melbourne or StKilda compared to Sydney or WC.

Collingwood play Essendon is a game between two vic clubs, no shit.

All you sooking is just made up crap.

Meanwhile, results show Sydney have another minor premiership, Port another top4 finish, Geelong another top4 finish.

Non-Melbourne teams dominate H&A as a result of AFL House policy.

AFL want to win over Sydney, is anybody surprised that the Swans have made finals 12 of last 14 seasons and played in the most GFs in the 21st century of ALL clubs?

Yet, you think the Saints, Dogs, North, Dees, Essendon are advantaged...absolutely deluded.

hawks sell games to Launceston and get a clear advantage there, thats why they travel more than they would normally and they get a big advantage coz they sure as hell dont play powerful big Vic clubs there, like Collingwood. they play WCE,GWS,Gc,Adel clubs mainly. Kinda more disadvantage to interstate clubs and more advantage to the big Vic clubs. hell, Collingwood dont even have to go an hour down the highway ever.