Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[sr36]

So if I get better at sitting on a plane, the actual interruption and inconvenience my opponent doesn't have to engage in may make it easier for me to beat them.
One thing the yanks know how to do is make the impossible sound true. Please don't believe it.

I think you misunderstood.

I'm saying you're disadvantaged when you travel. But that there's a suggestion that the disadvantage lessens the more familiar you become with travel.

I'm also saying that teams who travel to Perth are also disadvantaged - possibly more disadvantaged than WA teams are when they travel - as they aren't as accustomed to it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Everyone uses collingwood as an example as it is only Collingwood fans that are in denial and are answering that VIC clubs are disadvantaged.
I mean seriously it can't get any funnier than that.

"It's not a lie if you believe it"

And everyone hates Collingwood, so why do you deny it?

But if you think that's funny, try this.

You used Collingwood to try and prove a point, yet West Coast and Collingwood are allowed to spend the same, in fact, weren't West Coast getting extra for having Nic Nat on their list?
I don't think Collingwood has an ambassador?

Actually not sure many Vic clubs do.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I think you misunderstood.

I'm saying you're disadvantaged when you travel. But that there's a suggestion that the disadvantage lessens the more familiar you become with travel.

I read something the other day about sleeping is the reason travel is a burden, it went on the say the distance West Australian sides travel makes no difference, you have to travel over a few time zones to affect sleep.

 

[sr36]

I read something the other day about sleeping is the reason travel is a burden, it went on the say the distance West Australian sides travel makes no difference, you have to travel over a few time zones to affect sleep.

That's for jet lag - but I always feel a bit shit and spaced out after even a short flight in the same time zone - I think it's the altitude and oxygen and the cabin pressure ****ing with your ear canals.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

And everyone hates Collingwood, so why do you deny it?

But if you think that's funny, try this.

You used Collingwood to try and prove a point, yet West Coast and Collingwood are allowed to spend the same, in fact, weren't West Coast getting extra for having Nic Nat on their list?
I don't think Collingwood has an ambassador?

Actually not sure many Vic clubs do.

Nah everyone doesn't hate Collingwood. Thats just a myth. They probably hate Eddie Mcguire more than hating the club.

Don't know much about the ambassador roles. If we got more for having NN then I believe you. That helped by the way. lol

 

[doppleganger]

I agree with this, the whole league is based on american set ups so not sure why they would think that.
How would you do the two groupings?

Currently a pretty easy way to split the 18

Melbourne teams
Non-Melbourne teams

That way the non-Melbourne teams are all ranked against each other only, and all travel every second week = thus fair and equitable and no sooking about how it is easier for teams who dont travel.

Run two final 4s for each conference, get a Melbourne champion and non-Melbourne champion. They play off for AFL premier.

 

[LoungeLizard]

That's for jet lag - but I always feel a bit shit and spaced out after even a short flight in the same time zone - I think it's the altitude and oxygen and the cabin pressure ****ing with your ear canals.

It didn't say anything about jet lag.
It talked about how some people get grumpy if their sleep pattern changes effecting performance, then went on to say West Australians don't travel far enough to be effected.

It makes sense, because if it did effect players their would not be as many brownlow winners from over west and up north, I think I counted 11, that's a hell of a lot of players not effected.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Currently a pretty easy way to split the 18

Melbourne teams
Non-Melbourne teams

That way the non-Melbourne teams are all ranked against each other only, and all travel every second week = thus fair and equitable and no sooking about how it is easier for teams who dont travel.

Run two final 4s for each conference, get a Melbourne champion and non-Melbourne champion. They play off for AFL premier.

And of course have the GF at the MCG? Yeh that would makes things fairer. lol

I am more of a rolling fixture, the fixture just goes round in circles year after year after year. No fixed blockbusters. you play a team at home and the next time you play them you play away.

Or in a perfect world the AFL need to grow some balls and strive for a 12 team comp where every team plays each other twice. They had that and they stuffed it up.

 

[doppleganger]

Everyone uses collingwood as an example as it is only Collingwood fans that are in denial and are answering that VIC clubs are disadvantaged.
I mean seriously it can't get any funnier than that.

"It's not a lie if you believe it"

Collingwood fans clearly understand we are the most advantaged Melbourne based team.

What is an nonsense is to lazily group all VIC teams as being Collingwood.

Co-tenant teams - Carl and Ess have been woeful all 21st century ever since they opted to not have an actual home ground.

Marvel teams - StK, NM, WB - what advantage do they get?

MCG tenants - Pies, Rich and Melb - Pies the best as they dont sell games, Rich only came good when they got themselves in order off field and stopped selling home games to QLD. Melbourne still sell home games, and aint won a flag at the G since the 1960s.

Then you have the two successful "Victorian" based teams

Geelong, the only VIC team who has a home ground.

Hawthorn, the smart Melbourne based team who got into bed with Tasmania and created a commercial and ground advantage (despite travelling 9-10 times a year).

 

[LoungeLizard]

Nah everyone doesn't hate Collingwood. Thats just a myth. They probably hate Eddie Mcguire more than hating the club.

Don't know much about the ambassador roles. If we got more for having NN then I believe you. That helped by the way. lol

If you have time go check out Collingwoods win lose record V Geelong at Kardinia park, then check out Collingwoods win loss record V Geelong at the MCG, then come back ant tell me we have an advantage not going to Geelong.

People like to think we have an advantage not going there, but I will tell you we have a better record there than the MCG against Geelong, so send us there I say.

 

[p4p1]

I think you misunderstood.

I'm saying you're disadvantaged when you travel. But that there's a suggestion that the disadvantage lessens the more familiar you become with travel.

I'm also saying that teams who travel to Perth are also disadvantaged - possibly more disadvantaged than WA teams are when they travel - as they aren't as accustomed to it.

I would think that disadvantage adds up over an entire season.
The issue with American studies, is they don't play anything like AFL. So how much more toll the travel takes on players traveling every second week is still up in the air.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

If you have time go check out Collingwoods win lose record V Geelong at Kardinia park, then check out Collingwoods win loss record V Geelong at the MCG, then come back ant tell me we have an advantage not going to Geelong.

People like to think we have an advantage not going there, but I will tell you we have a better record there than the MCG against Geelong, so send us there I say.

Collingwoods away record the last 10 years has been great, but that happens also when you are a better than average team.
All sides when they are crap lose away and also at home. Collingwood have been a pretty strong team for some time now and hence their win/loss record is pretty good.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Collingwood fans clearly understand we are the most advantaged Melbourne based team.

What is an nonsense is to lazily group all VIC teams as being Collingwood.

Co-tenant teams - Carl and Ess have been woeful all 21st century ever since they opted to not have an actual home ground.

Marvel teams - StK, NM, WB - what advantage do they get?

MCG tenants - Pies, Rich and Melb - Pies the best as they dont sell games, Rich only came good when they got themselves in order off field and stopped selling home games to QLD. Melbourne still sell home games, and aint won a flag at the G since the 1960s.

Then you have the two successful "Victorian" based teams

Geelong, the only VIC team who has a home ground.

Hawthorn, the smart Melbourne based team who got into bed with Tasmania and created a commercial and ground advantage (despite travelling 9-10 times a year).

Yes all teams are different but something definitely happened behind closed doors for all these clubs to accept terrible home ground deals. The VIC clubs are mighty powerfull all together and its my suspicion they did not all agree together that some clubs get good deals and others get crap deals.

You say above Essendon and Carlton opted to not have an actual home ground? So it was their decision not the leagues?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Collingwoods away record the last 10 years has been great, but that happens also when you are a better than average team.
All sides when they are crap lose away and also at home. Collingwood have been a pretty strong team for some time now and hence their win/loss record is pretty good.

No mate, not the last 10 years, all time.
Since we have moved to the MCG, Geelong now have the wood on us.

It's just a point I am trying to make, people think it's a Collingwood advantage, they say it enough, then everyone believe it, like travel, say it enough people start believing it.

You are just sheep.

 

[doppleganger]

And of course have the GF at the MCG? Yeh that would makes things fairer. lol

I am more of a rolling fixture, the fixture just goes round in circles year after year after year. No fixed blockbusters. you play a team at home and the next time you play them you play away.

Or in a perfect world the AFL need to grow some balls and strive for a 12 team comp where every team plays each other twice. They had that and they stuffed it up.

Nah have the "Melbourne" Final at the G every year.

Can decide to have the "NonMelbourne" final at the biggest ground outside Melbourne if you want, aka Optus.

Can rotate the AFL Premiership Cup game between home grounds of whoever qualifies - so Marvel, CatPark, Giant Stadium can host.

Rolling fixture is pointless, each season is awarded a premiership. When you assess the 2024 fixture, nobody cares who you played in 2022 or 2023.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

No mate, not the last 10 years, all time.
Since we have moved to the MCG, Geelong now have the wood on us.

It's just a point I am trying to make, people think it's a Collingwood advantage, they say it enough, then everyone believe it, like travel, say it enough people start believing it.

You are just sheep.

I was talking your away record in total, you guys have travelled pretty well when you have had to travel.
As for Geelong having the wood on you, well that might be more of a coincidence that Geelong have been a powerhouse for the last 10-15 years. It makes sense they win almost everywhere.

And I could not be further from a sheep, that certainly describes the modern AFL fan but not me.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I was talking your away record in total, you guys have travelled pretty well when you have had to travel.
As for Geelong having the wood on you, well that might be more of a coincidence that Geelong have been a powerhouse for the last 10-15 years. It makes sense they win almost everywhere.

And I could not be further from a sheep, that certainly describes the modern AFL fan but not me.

See you go back to 10-15 years.

Let me spell it out for you.

At Vic Park when we had a true home ground, our win % was 69%

At Kardinia Park it was 53%

Now at the MCG it is 44%


You say you are not a sheep, but a few posts back I asked why you used Collingwood as an example, your answer, everyone else does.
That's the definition of a sheep.

 

[doppleganger]

Yes all teams are different but something definitely happened behind closed doors for all these clubs to accept terrible home ground deals. The VIC clubs are mighty powerfull all together and its my suspicion they did not all agree together that some clubs get good deals and others get crap deals.

You keep forgetting what the landscape was like in the 90s.

The AFL was wanting to kill off Melbourne teams. The AFL didn't want suburban grounds, they wanted a new city stadium. The AFL made the decision and the Melbourne clubs were forced to the Docklands.

The AFL sold them a lemon.

You say above Essendon and Carlton opted to not have an actual home ground? So it was their decision not the leagues?

And yes Essendon chose to be the main Marvel tenant, but didnt want all their games there - so went the 7-4 split.

They play MCG tenants at the G (minor ground familiarirty disadvantage)
They play Marvel tenants at Marvel (minor ground familiarity disadvantage)

If you ask Essendon fans where their home ground is, what is their answer?

The #VICBIAS brigade just think they get an advantage in any game in Melbourne.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You keep forgetting what the landscape was like in the 90s.

The AFL was wanting to kill off Melbourne teams. The AFL didn't want suburban grounds, they wanted a new city stadium. The AFL made the decision and the Melbourne clubs were forced to the Docklands.

The AFL sold them a lemon.

And yes Essendon chose to be the main Marvel tenant, but didnt want all their games there - so went the 7-4 split.

They play MCG tenants at the G (minor ground familiarirty disadvantage)
They play Marvel tenants at Marvel (minor ground familiarity disadvantage)

If you ask Essendon fans where their home ground is, what is their answer?

The #VICBIAS brigade just think they get an advantage in any game in Melbourne.

Did essendon, St Kilda, Bulldogs all get the same deal or was it a different deal for each club.
Sounds very dodgy what happened in Victoria with grounds. Some clubs made out like bandits and others got screwed, somewhere along the line some clubs must of been given something to accept those crap deals.

As for wanting to kill off Victorian teams they did a piss poor job at that. lol

 

[sr36]

I would think that disadvantage adds up over an entire season.
The issue with American studies, is they don't play anything like AFL. So how much more toll the travel takes on players traveling every second week is still up in the air.

Possibly.

Cumulutive impact is the only potential thing.

Most of this thread is simply looking for disadvantages, whilst ignoring own advantages - and frankly having a team travel to play you does seem an advantage - an advantage that non-vic teams get as often as they give up. And gather round teams get a little bit more.

 

[doppleganger]

No mate, not the last 10 years, all time.
Since we have moved to the MCG, Geelong now have the wood on us.

It's just a point I am trying to make, people think it's a Collingwood advantage, they say it enough, then everyone believe it, like travel, say it enough people start believing it.

MCG is a neutral stadium for Geelong. They play their 5-6 times per year, they get 30k fans in cheering them on.

Collingwood at VicPark enjoyed a real home ground advantage. Opposition played what once a year, no fans, it was Collingwood's ground.

Geeling still enjoy that real home ground advantage at CatPark, no Melbourne teams get that anymore.

 

[doppleganger]

Did essendon, St Kilda, Bulldogs all get the same deal or was it a different deal for each club.
Sounds very dodgy what happened in Victoria with grounds. Some clubs made out like bandits and others got screwed, somewhere along the line some clubs must of been given something to accept those crap deals.

Different deals, big clubs like Essendon used their size to get more favourable deals.

None really made out like bandits, even Essendon were better off in the 90s when they played 17-18 games at the G.

Collingwood were only able to negotiate our MCG deal in mid 2000s, early 2000s we would get 7 games at Marvel as we were used as the cash cow.

Our MCG deal was part of MCC giving up locked in PF. You are welcome

 

[LoungeLizard]

MCG is a neutral stadium for Geelong. They play their 5-6 times per year, they get 30k fans in cheering them on.

Collingwood at VicPark enjoyed a real home ground advantage. Opposition played what once a year, no fans, it was Collingwood's ground.

Geeling still enjoy that real home ground advantage at CatPark, no Melbourne teams get that anymore.

Yeah I know, but the point I was trying to make is.

Playing Geelong at the MCG and not going to alphabet stadium, is not the advantage all the sheep think it is, we had a better record at their home ground than we do at the MCG against them.

It the same thing as Collingwood and travel, we travel as much as other Vic clubs, but the sheep think we don't , they say it enough, then everyone believes it.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Different deals, big clubs like Essendon used their size to get more favourable deals.

None really made out like bandits, even Essendon were better off in the 90s when they played 17-18 games at the G.

Collingwood were only able to negotiate our MCG deal in mid 2000s, early 2000s we would get 7 games at Marvel as we were used as the cash cow.

Our MCG deal was part of MCC giving up locked in PF. You are welcome

Yes forever grateful to you guys

 

[Farang83150]

If the top 4 teams in 4 weeks are non Victorian is this thread dead?

Win finals but not allowed to play at home...